H3 SAS (first detailed thread?)
It starts tonight....shes going on jackstands and will be down for a bit. The hummer is a 2006 H3 lux model. I added the OEM rear locker, 4:1 tcase, rancho lifted it, rancho rear springs sagged so I did a spring over with stock springs. Ran a front locker for a bit. Its my first wheeler. I wheeled it for 6 years slowly building it up the setup works pretty well for being a factory suspension with front end bolt ons. The rear flexs awesome. I wheeled moab, all over so cal and even clawhammer with piece of shit 35in goodyear duratracs. The diffs keep breaking, steering holds up well with my Mayhem metal works steering brace but the pinion keeps exploding.
Now its time for a Dana 44 pass drop outta a blazer. I bought it used fully built. All new seals, 5.13s (which I plan to run) chromo shafts, detroit locker, etc. Seeing its full time 4wd I will ditch the detroit and get a selectable but for now I am putting it in and will run one hub locked one unlocked or swap it out right after I get it done.
Goal is keep it streetable. I am 22 about to start my senior year in college and work about 30 hours a week. I drive alot...about 20k miles a year, its my DD. So its gotta work well on the street. The goal is to make it ride as good if not better then now. That might not be hard seeing my front end is beyond wore out! With 130k miles on it and all original bushings ball joints etc. its getting pretty bad.
It will be a 3 link...coil springs and shocks. I am replicating 4speedfunk aka THORparts. Every H3 SAS is expensive by being dropped off at a shop for high dollar upgrades. He was the first to do a DIY that wasnt a complete hack job. He kept ABS and kept it streetable. I contemplated the bebe IFS you guys all saw, its badass but my rules are DIY, I dont have money or the skill to do a high dollar IFS.
He has a few things posted up online but I hope to detail it. Here detail isnt nearly as necessary as on a hummer forum because this is hardcore x10 tech for them. For you guys this is basic crap.
Why a Dana 44 and not a 60? I found a built one cheap. Seeing I have kept 35s on a 7.5in ring gear that is a 3 piece design and has more deflection then anything I know I think my driving style can hold up to 37s on a 44. If I blow shit up I can go to a 60 later. the 10 bolt will stay for now and will upgrade that later on after it blows up. The 10 bolt has been fuck free with 35s and locked while the front is a disaster.
Anyways, this is stupid simple for you guys, I am also posting it on a hummer forum, so they can learn whats involved but I figured I can learn from you guys over here. Its my first SAS. Everything I have ever done on the H3 is a first. Picked up a welder a few years ago made some bumpers for some friends, then did a spring over for the H3. So this is one big learning experience with everything done on the 3.
Anyways its going on jackstands tonight and will start pulling it out and cutting away tomorrow. Its gotta be driving by the 25th when school starts. Ill go sleepless if I have to.
Heres some pics of my 3.
OMG - subscribed LOL!!!
Bebe! What's up! We need some SAS hummer tech going on pirate so I volunteer. :D
Using JK springs that were a tad too stiff for my brother so they should work out nice seeing were a bit heavier. if not I'll use synergy springs my brothers JK is caddy like with those springs and he's not even long arm yet and he's gotta that's ridiculously uncomfortable seats
Maybe in 10 years I'll try an ifs h3 like yours. Spoke to the gf and asked her if one day she wants a wheeling rig. She says yes but I told her no jeeps it's gotta be oddball like a Kia sportage or toyota sequoia SAS but she said she would wheel a 3. :flipoff2:
Maybe an alpha his and her built hummers. One SAS one ifs.
For now I'll focus on mine. Starting work soon this shift can't end quick enough I'm scared but stoked!
Well, I'm glad to see you posting up your build thread here - you'll get lots of advice - don't be afraid to ask questions!!
I will most definitely be here for advice
Tear down has begun
Alright so I got all the stock bracketry off, frame all ground and the frame plates tacked on. The big question for tomorrow is what to do on links.
I am going with a 3 link and on the 6 or so SAS H3s I have seen they all put their link mounts before the crossmember leaving them with a control arm length of 26in. I think that is a bit on the short side. So my choice is to either flip the ruffstuff bracket around (which I dont like) and that would get me to about 30-31in lowers or take off the stock crossmember that holds up the t case and build a new one then mount the arms to to get about 35in.
my options are these...
The most common and only way I have seen SAS H3s done.
Netting 26in arms
flip it back and gain myself to 30ish.
Fuck it and cut off the whole crossmember make a new one and run the arms further back
Also, should I just stick to the 80% rule. Uppers are 80% of lowers?
Steering box comes in monday so I will hold off on that or a tad.
Track bar is going to be a bitch. This is one time I wish I went coilovers. With the coil buckets and shock mounts all being mashed in with little room plus being a pass drop its tough. I have a few ideas. If I move the track bar axle bracket more towards the front of the vehicle and off the axle a tad that will get in the way and possibly limit me with hi steer. Ill get pics of that in the morning
Ummm, running the bracket backwards won't allow the lower link to move/fit will it?
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Can you make a cross member that either bolts to the inside vertical of the frame or slightly aft of where you want the link brackets? The track bar could be on top of the pumpkin, if you have high steer it shouldn't be to hard to get it parallel.
Im doing a custom crossmember. Too late to go back now...Cut off the stock crossmember mounts on the frame.
2x4x3/16 is the main portion. 1x4 is the short piece that is connected to the stock t case mount.
Here it is
Plan is to continue to add 1/4 plate with holes and then weld to the ends of the piece in the picture above then make that removable and use more 2x4x3/16 to mount to the side of the frame rail. Then add some gussets between the frame rail and fixed mount. Then it will allow me to put the lowers anywhere I want and the uppers are limited by the new crossmember but it will still make the links much longer.
Problem is driveshaft clearance in the picture above I notched it, it does clear but barely. I want some more legroom can I continue to cut the back side like I did to the front then plate it all in and be ok from a strength standpoint?
Still working on the crossmember...been going slow due to work but should pick up the pace soon
Notched the center section and plated it for the driveshaft to clear then made the non removable frame end and started the angle piece.
Wow what a long fuckin day....I had the day off of work so I worked in the driveway instead. Today was day 6
Day 1 was cutting off IFS and tacking on 3/16 frame plates
Day 2 was wasted at metal store and starting crossmember
Day 3 I worked most of the day so only continued the crossmember
Day 4 was the same as day 3.
Day 5 was the same as day 3 and day 4 :shaking:
Day 6 (today) I was off and had my buddy come over to help. He finished the crossmember while I packed the bearings for the axle, grinded down the spindle studs for the use of ThorParts ABS hubs, put the knuckles on all little crap that adds up to waste time...then he left and I finished welding the crossmember, then I started the steering box got that done, and finally got the axle under!
So is the crossmember worth it? At this point...NO, especially since its a DD and it adds more time lol In the future I will probably say yes it was worth it. Of the few h3s with a SAS everyone throws the control arm mounts in front of the crossmember because it mounts below the framerails and prevents the arms from going further back. Most SAS h3s have around 26in arms, I should be able to acheive 35in lowers. I have looked at doing a high clearance crossmember in the past but the torsion bars have always been the limitation but now with them gone you can move it up. It looks like clearance gains will be about 1/2-1in from the center point of the crossmember and about 2+ inches from the framerail to the sides portion. If someone was to do this in the future on an H3 I would HIGHLY recommend using something else then 2x4x3/16. Its big and bulky and can be a pain to route stuff. If I was to do it again you can go the easy route and chop the ends off the stock crossmember and modify it (you wont gain clearance but you can get longer arms) or use 1 3/4 .120 wall DOM round tubing...
Ebay buy for a nissan xterra box, 2001 IIRC.
Steering box was not too bad other then the fact that the sleeves can be a pain in the ass to get lined up.
I used 3/16 plate on the inside of the framerail and plasma cut the holes for the sleeves. I used 3/4 OD x.075 wall steel for the sleeves.
Ignore the bolts if you can see them...they are temporary for mockup of the steering box.
and finally the axle found its home...
This is awesome. Keep the updates coming!
Track bar is gonna be a bitch!!!
I may get flamed for this but can I weld it to the cast leaf spring portion then do a truss on both sides? I wanna keep it centered so I can make high steer work. From what I have seen most have been offset mounts on the h3. Getting the track bar in the way of high steer
Do I notch the frame for the drag link? I am trying to keep it as low as possible. I am shooting for 27 hub to fender (stock is 22.5 so 4.5in over stock) at 23.5 hub to fender my draglink is about to hit the frame...thats only 3.5in of uptravel. I want 4-5in of uptravel. Is that enough to do basic go fast stuff? I dont do 90 in the desert but I like to jump it hit small whoops. I like to go fast before I put it in 4lo.
Here it is.
I had other clearance issues with the pitman arm and tie rod but its an angled down one so I will get a straight one.
I also had issues with the upper link mount on the axle and the motor mount but I moved it over a half an inch and now I can bump up more and I can trim the mount a tad.
A friend just pointed out your thread, great to see you making the jump. Just started reading but will be following closely. Getting close to your deadline, hope you are wrapping things up. I'm with you, been going back and forth between SAS and custom IFS like Bebe.
Thanks I am almost done
I havent updated this yet but the goal of having it done by monday the 25th was not achieved
That would of put me at 2 1/2 weeks. I had a chance to have it done but things got in the way. First off, I wasted an entire day on saturday running to part stores to find brake line nuts that would work and drilling out my pitman arm. The brakeline nuts on mine were stripped. I cut em off then was going to reflare them and call it a day. Easy right? Nope...GM uses this thick rubber on the hard brakelines so the little nuts wouldnt fit on the brakeline. I had to grind off the rubber and still it would barely fit. So I went back to the store to get the next size up. They fit the hardline but the nut was too big to fit the soft line. After wasting hours I ended up going to oreilly and getting brand new hardlines and rerouted them. GM has so much extra slack in their hardlines with random bends. After I got the new hardlines I was ready to hook em up to the softlines. problem #2 supposedly there is a crazy shortage on 7/8in drill bits where I live. I searched store after store and couldnt find em. I ended up finding a friend with one and got half way until the bit was toast. I ended up dropping it off at a machine shop this morning and they drilled it out. Then on sunday, (my last day to get it done due to school starting monday) I worked all day. Then I got home and was going to bleed the brakes and and hook up the PS pump to the box. Instead I get a phone call that a friend of a friend lost control of his raptor and almost rolled off a hill. I couldnt go due to squeaky not being ready but they needed a winch so my brother ended up going but his jeep wasnt ready so I ended up helping him get the jeep ready. By that point it was late and I had an unhappy girlfriend because all my attention has been on squeaky for the past 2 1/2 weeks, I do feel bad only time I have seen her is for 5 min here 5 min there. So i ended up taking the night off. I was figuring out how to get to school and work on monday but luckily my dad has a business trip and is gone till thursday so I have his car. It must be done by thursday but all I have left is putting on the shocks and rebleeding the brakes and PS pump. Its basically drivable now. Today is my long day, between school and work its a 15 hour day so depending on how late I get home I might get started on the other crap. If not I will do it tomorrow night.
Here are some pics.
No lights! The computer is fooled!
I am gonna have to cut and redo the lines on the steering but here is a front shot
27.5 hub to fender (I had my rancho at 26.5-27) It may lower half an inch when its off the angled driveway. So I am near rancho height
The Draglink and tie rod will hit at 4in of uptravel! Which really surprises me but in a good way! I went over the knuckle instead of under. CJ and I talked about this...We will just see how it works out.
Instead of a metal coil retainer I used a stock JK rubber insert, I didnt like the idea of metal on metal. I also added a little 3in pipe in between the rubber so keep it centered. The lower one has a metal coil insert that CJ provided.
It is driving! It needs some work though. JK coils are wayyyy too soft. So soft I will not go on the freeway. I was speaking with AM4x4 and he brought up a good point. Even if the JK and H3 were exactly the same weight the H3s motor is further up then a JK having more leverage on the springs. After experimenting with them I would not even recommend any JK spring, even if they are the stiffest JK springs known to man.
Seeing its a DD I need to drive down the freeway at 70 MPH. The only other coil sprung H3 is 4speedfunk and hes running bronco coils and said they work great. I was thinking Bronco coils from a 78 bronco or possibly a FZJ80 coil. JK spring rates from what I have seen is 150-200. FZJ80 coils are anywhere from 200-225 and the bronco coils are around 280-400 depending on what kind I get. I was looking at these.
Super Flex Coil Springs, 4 Lift CSH57-Broncograveyard.com
What do you guys think?
Power steering was a huge mystery for me. You can source these out individually or go through ThorParts because some of the parts needed are multi pack and you only need one.
For the power steering you need 3 adapters. One for the pump and 2 for the box.
Russell 670520 Russell AN Male to Metric Male Adapter Fittings - Free Shipping on All Orders @ JEGS
After you put these adapters in the pump and box you need to go get lines made. The adapters all make it -6AN fittings for the hookup of the line. Go to Napa or a hydraulic line shop and have them make 2 lines. Both lines should be 54in long. This will leave plenty of slack. Take out your old stock lines. One line is the high pressure line. It must be rated for high pressure it has a JIC 90 degree elbow -6AN female fitting. then 54in of high pressure line and a straight swivel JIC -6AN line.
The other line is the return. Its a 54in line also but has a -6AN JIC 90 degree elbow and then the other end is open with just hose that slips onto the bottom of the pump.
The pressure line is the smaller 14mm opening the return is the 16mm bigger opening in the box.
I could of kept going but I still dont have bumpstops so I didnt push it any further but things are heading in the right direction. Doing small things now...The more and more I drive it the more I love it! Minus the body roll its really smooth. Going to order new coils today.
Get a sway bar if its rolling on you. Hellwig products offers tons of different options! And you can buy quick-disconnect end links in many lengths.
Thanks I will check em out. It hit me in the head driving home today I wonder if the rear would work on the front and then just order another one.
Maybe I will try that out but I will check hell wig out right now.
Tonight I went to flex it out again, I got my new springs but havent installed em yet. They are a dual rate bronco spring from wildhorses4x4. I hope they work out well for me. I have been doing some thinking and I really want a no compromises build. I have 14in travel shocks. They are limiting my uptravel. They are long shocks and my shock mounts are all the way up into the fender. I need shorter shocks to use all my uptravel but the length of shock I have now will work out well to help me achieve full droop. I have roughly 3in of uptravel on the shock. I can get more uptravel then that without doing anything but a shorter shock. After that it would require the framerail to be notched for more track bar and drag link clearance. I was thinking about it, for on road the length of the shock would help with more uptravel but I wont notice it much improvement on road but off road it will help. I thought about shock hooping it into the fender. The battery is in the way on the driver side and the windshield wiper reservoir is in the way on the passenger side. Moving the windshield wiper reservoir should be easy. Moving the battery is tougher but looking at the dual battery setups I think I can move my current battery inboard and turn it and it will allow me to put my shock up through the fender into the engine bay. This will allow me to get my maximum up travel without killing my droop. Anything to improve on road and off road handling is worth it to me.
At this point I have done the custom crossmember for the long arms, flipped the drag link end over the pitman arm for more uptravel so it doesnt hit the tie rod and limit uptravel. I might as well continue the trend and get as much travel as possible.
So far the only known shock hooped H3 is Rod Halls race rig lol I should have my work ahead of me.
On a side note I have logged over 200 miles on road so far and its really a great daily driver. Other then the body roll issue it rides just as nice if not nicer then stock. Once I swap out springs and get a sway bar on here I wont have a problem cruising 75mph all day
Very nice!! I would love to have an H3t to build!!!
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