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Old 12-25-2006, 07:36 PM   #1 (permalink)
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My 727 wont shift, what do I check first?

I got my 72 scout out today and got the tranny pan changed to a deep sump. The other one was leaking. The scout just underwent a complete overhaul including a rebuilt engine and 727 with kelvar bands and B&M shift kit. I have the reciepts for the rebuilds but I don't know anything about the folks that did it. This is the first time it has been driving since the build. I filled the fluid, started it, drove it 10 feet, added fluid, etc until it was full. The problem is that I can drive it down the road but it won't shift out of first. If it was a ford, I would look for vacuum control unit or something like that unplugged. I can't seem to find anything like that on the tranny. There are several vacuum control lines plugged so I wonder if one of them went to the tranny. Any ideas what I should check first or does it sound like the the tranny is terminally ill?

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Bob
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Old 12-25-2006, 07:40 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The 727 didn't have vacuum controls... it uses a throttle valve cable.
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Old 12-25-2006, 07:56 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Does it look like the kick down or is it a cable

Is it a cable or a rod that attaches to the throttle linkage like kick down linkage? Where will I find it and what does it look like?

Bob
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Old 12-25-2006, 08:57 PM   #4 (permalink)
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If the stock dip stick is still in there, you can read on the stick that you need the Scout in Neutral to check the fluid level. In neutral the pump will cirulate the fluid. Don't drive it 10 feet and check it

On a filter change it takes 6 qt, on a deep pan I suspect a couple more. If it still won't shift and your 100% sure you have the correct fluid level, then the bands might need to be adjusted. Now for the bad news one can be done eternally and the other you need to remove the pan. If you have receipts then you can call the shop and ask them a couple questions too.

Start by running the Scout in neutral with the tires blocked on level ground and then pull the dip stick, if it's close to normal + or - a pint it should drive and shift fine. You can double check the "kick down" linkage too.
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Old 12-25-2006, 09:11 PM   #5 (permalink)
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The fluid level is fine

I did run it in neutral while adding the fluid but for some reason I have found that after driving, I still end up adding up to a quart or so. I added eight total quarts after draining the old fluid and changing the pan. I am sure the fluid level is good. It drives great but will not shift. It pulls hard and easily spins the 38" swampers on dirt. I do have the reciept but the shop is in Philadelphia and I am in arizona. Should I mess with it or take it to a tranny shop?

Bob
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Old 12-26-2006, 08:49 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Be sure the kick down linkage is adjusted correctly. Call the shop if that doesn't work. Also try calling or stopping in a local shop.
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Old 12-26-2006, 10:22 AM   #7 (permalink)
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The kickdown lever does just that..kicks it down a gear when the throttle is at max.

The tranny still should shift without it hooked up. Did you drain your TC when you changed your fluids?

I'd drain the tranny and TC, then refill it correctly and try it again. Did you double ckeck your clutch torques and stuff when you got the tranny back from the rebuilders? I'd also drop the pan again and check for a filter obstruction like a piece of plastic packaging or something in the valve body. The VB has ball bearings in it that could be gone not allowing it to shift too. I think a stock config uses 3 two small one big(I think) and if one was misplaced that might cause it not to shift too.

I see you added a shift kit that takes out one of the ball bearings I think(been awhile since I did it). When you drop the pan get your shift kit instructions and a flat tip. Drop the valve body and check the install. Its easy and very clear.

Also have you tried shifting into other positions like P,N,R,1,2 and see if one of those is actually D? I've only done this on Travelalls with linkages not cables. But the one B&M unimatic I put on a ScoutII TF727 worked about the same way.
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Old 12-26-2006, 10:26 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yoursmiledoc View Post
I did run it in neutral while adding the fluid but for some reason I have found that after driving, I still end up adding up to a quart or so. I added eight total quarts after draining the old fluid and changing the pan. I am sure the fluid level is good. It drives great but will not shift. It pulls hard and easily spins the 38" swampers on dirt. I do have the reciept but the shop is in Philadelphia and I am in arizona. Should I mess with it or take it to a tranny shop?

Bob
This may seem obvious, but I assume the shift lever is working just fine, moves back and forth and the shift linkage on the tranny moves too. The cable clamps are not loose. Pull on the kick down linkage and make sure that can move too. Does reverse work?
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Old 12-26-2006, 04:08 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NVScouter View Post
The kickdown lever does just that..kicks it down a gear when the throttle is at max.

The tranny still should shift without it hooked up.
It will shift, but it will shift to second right away and later to third, feeling like it only shifts twice.

Did you try the shifter in first, then move it to second while moving, see if that does anything?
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Old 12-28-2006, 09:20 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Ok

I put a new filter in it with the new pan and gasket but I did not drain the TC. The fluid in it has only been used to move it around and on/off a trailer so it looked new and the filter in it looked good. I changed it anyway. The linkage seems tight and in good shape. I have a B&M shifter in the box but I don't want to install it until I get it working. I do have the instructions and balls/springs removed when the shift kit went in. I guess I could pull the valve body and check it. The kick down linkage is there and connected, but I put a 4 barrel manifold and carb on where a 2bl was before. The linkgage is moved forward 1/2 to 1 inch due to the carb swap but I slid it forward as much as I could. I tried putting a small bolt in the slit where the kickdown linkage slides. I moved the bolt forward and back to simulate different throttle positions but it still won't shift. If I put it in drive, it seems to be in second because if I shift it down into first, it downshifts. Once it does that, it will not shift back up. I will try to pull the valve body and try that for now. Thanks for the tips and I will keep you posted.

Bob
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Old 12-28-2006, 09:33 AM   #11 (permalink)
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No sweat man.

The VB just drops down when you undo it and there is the new shift kit plate ( thin) that comes out with it. Just check it VS the directions and put it back. Refill and try it again.

If that doesn't work I'd hit up the shop that did the rebuild and see WTF.
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Old 12-28-2006, 11:44 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yoursmiledoc View Post
I put a new filter in it with the new pan and gasket but I did not drain the TC. The fluid in it has only been used to move it around and on/off a trailer so it looked new and the filter in it looked good. I changed it anyway. The linkage seems tight and in good shape. I have a B&M shifter in the box but I don't want to install it until I get it working. I do have the instructions and balls/springs removed when the shift kit went in. I guess I could pull the valve body and check it. The kick down linkage is there and connected, but I put a 4 barrel manifold and carb on where a 2bl was before. The linkgage is moved forward 1/2 to 1 inch due to the carb swap but I slid it forward as much as I could. I tried putting a small bolt in the slit where the kickdown linkage slides. I moved the bolt forward and back to simulate different throttle positions but it still won't shift. If I put it in drive, it seems to be in second because if I shift it down into first, it downshifts. Once it does that, it will not shift back up. I will try to pull the valve body and try that for now. Thanks for the tips and I will keep you posted.

Bob
Can you manually shift from 1 to two to three? If so I think it's the kickdown linkage. How did it shift with the two barrel carb? Would have helped to know you swapped carbs before.
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Old 12-29-2006, 09:50 AM   #13 (permalink)
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no shifting

I am hoping to get it torn down this afternoon. The two barrel ran so bad I could hardly move it in and out of the garage so I don't know if it shifted. I can shift it down to first when I initially put it in drive but other than that, it never shifts back up to second or third. I really don't think it is the throttle position linkage. We adjusted it according to the B&M instructions and nothing changed. At this point I am no longer nervous about dropping the valve body so I will give it a shot. I figure I can't mess things up much more than they are now. It can't be any harder than rebuilding an engine. I am already looking at taking it to a tranny shop so at least I can check the valve body. I will let you know how it goes. I am getting a custom set of try-Y headers from Stan's today. I may get caught up in installing those but we will see.

Bob
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Old 12-29-2006, 11:19 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
can shift it down to first when I initially put it in drive but other than that, it never shifts back up to second or third.
So you can shift through RDN12 at first but after its running you cannot shift through all gears? Or it just wont do it automaticly? Dont be nervious about dropping the valve body its cake.

You say you dont know anything about the folks who did the rebuild, do you know who they are and any warranty? Or did you buy it rebuilt or something?

You'll love Stan's Tri-Ys. Stan is the man and super nice guy to talk to. Great products too.
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Old 12-29-2006, 12:53 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Ah HAH!!

I think we found it. We dropped the valve body and the bands were flopping in the breeze. I have one of those phone book IH manuals and it said to torque the bands to 72lbs and back them out two turns. We did that and we are about to inspect the valve body and replace it. Befofre it would go into reverse, neutral, and 2 then 1 but never automatically shift back up if you put it in drive. I am hoping it works now. Stan's headers are here and WOW. I had him make me a set without the two to one collector on the passenger side because I am shortening the two tubes and pointing them straight down like a chevy shorty header. The passenger side will go under the oil pan in the notch and collect with the drivers side to one 3". It will then turn up right behind the vertical section behind the front seats and go out the quarter panel on the passenger side right in front of the wheel. It will be a tad short of the quarter so you can't lean up against it. I can't wait to get the tranny back together and see if it works. It feels good to do it myself. This is my first auto tranny work because I have always wheeled manuals. They are not as scary as some people make them out to be.
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