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Old 07-19-2007, 09:27 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Scoutzall, the build-up.

Project: Scoutzall r2.2
Subect: 1974 RHD Scout II
Drivetrain: 460-ZF-1356-np205
Axles: Dana 60/Dana 70 dually's 4Xdisks
Tires: 40"+ on H1's
Winch: Warn M12000
Suspension: Prototype D&C 4-link w/SAW coil-over front and standard coil rear kit.

Scout r2.0


Scout r2.1

This build will be done as quickly and thoroughly as possible to see if this new kit from D&C will take as much time and guesswork out of 4-linking as it appears it will. However I absolutely will not compromise quality for build speed, so if it takes longer so be it. Unlike my previous start at a build thread, I now have a steady, good paying job as a co-op mechanical engineer at mercury marine and a decent indoor shop setup with good tools. I should be putting the money toward the last semesters of college at MTU commencing in January, but lets just call this an "investment".
-Kansas 4x4 service
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Last edited by [email protected]; 07-21-2007 at 12:42 AM.
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:31 PM   #2 (permalink)
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---Quick recap---
Some of this...

A little of this

A touch of semi-built ford 460 (now 466 with highercompression, FI pistons, biggest summit truck cam)

A LOT of this
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:35 PM   #3 (permalink)
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...Brings us to this

Everything moves to Wisconsin, shop is acquired and setup

A little Dana 70HD chevy rear for flavor...

...to complement the HPD60 front
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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2 D3VE's, minus 3 lbs of metal shavings, plus rumbledy bump stick equals WAABAHHH!!!!
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
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This is where things took a turn in a different direction, Snoopy offered, and I agreed to install and evaluate a prototype four link rear, radius arm front kit for Scout II's. I had been salivating over coil overs and a fully linked suspension for many different reasons up until he contacted me, and I finally decided to do it right the first time. And so begins scoutzall.

The process for ordering this 4 link kit begins with a phone call to Damien at D&C Extreme. I only needed to provide him my axle choice and desired stretch for the front and rear. He agreed to allow me to purchase the kit in stages so that I could comfortably go paycheck to paycheck.

The kit is all based off of two 44" long frame sleeves, these sleeves are designed to fit snuggly over a prepped scout frame rail. I had welded along the factory seam on my frame and this required me to grind the weld smooth. All brackets must be cut and ground smooth as well.

I then smothered the rail and sleeve inside with a bunch of paint I had lying around for rust proofing. A little clamping force from a high lift and it went right on.


Because my frame was of questionable straightness, I clamped the rear first, tacked it, then did the middle 2nd and front last. I was easily able to pull the sleeve to the frame with the high lift. Make sure and only tack the bottoms when doing this at first.

Now I clamped the sides together and tacked them, glad you didn't do them before?


The rest is pretty straight forward. I went along and marked the frame at 3" intervals, sort of staggered from top to bottom. I don't feel it would be necessary to weld everything, it may even be harmful.









The frame sleeve is serious beef. 3/8" IIRC. Very heavy duty and has excellent fit and finish. I believe it to have been bent for this specific task, not some off the shelf box steel cut to fit. This is a VERY efficient way attach links and I think I may tie into it and run all the way on up to the front bumper with similarly sized angle for some extra support for my winch and motor.

Thats all I got done tonight. Gonna be a busy weekend.
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:35 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Couple things:
1) You can V-out your lower links a bit, not too much, but about 3" per side.
2) The frame sleeves are custom made from flat-stock and bent to fit the Scout frames exactly.
3) Cool writeup on the build. Can't wait to see it finished.
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Old 07-20-2007, 02:47 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Very cool. Keep the pics comming.
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Old 07-21-2007, 12:35 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Rigged up an interesting way to pull lower king pin cap out of dana 60. It's one of those picture is worth a thousand words kind of things, however you can't really see the cap in the pic. It has a 3/4" nut welded to it and a bolt chained to an engine hoist. A few good hits with the partsbreaker to twist the cap as the hoist applied the tension was all it took.

Other side sleeve is on. I found that the stock body mounts are not necessarily a good reference point to measure from. I instead used a little indexing hole just behind the sleeves.



herm, looks like lens might have a spec or two of grinding dust on it.
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Old 07-21-2007, 11:00 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Productive yet mundane day. LOTS of grinding, had to make everything ready to be put on a 4" axle tube and the axle and frame got a bunch of stone work too. Removed the flange that the old drums bolted to. This was an absolute joy. Then I was finally able to weld on my disk brake brackets.


Then I started figuring out rough driveline angles and lengths so I can pick a good angle to attach the lower link brackets at. I think I want them rotated up plenty to clear rocks and such even at full droop. If you have everything mocked up a laser level is much easier and more accurate than trying to set a piece of pipe someplace and see how it looks. Since my frame wasn't setting at ride height, I corrected the measurement at the tape.


Mo work tomorrow.
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Old 07-21-2007, 11:25 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Larbo...

Finally some great tech/building in here...

Looks like you will be up and running in short time if you keep this kind of progress up...!
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Old 07-22-2007, 09:21 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Larbo...

Finally some great tech/building in here...

Looks like you will be up and running in short time if you keep this kind of progress up...!
I don't know that I am ANGRY enough to keep this kind of progress up but we'll see.

Today I got the lower link mounts finally on after arguing with self as to placement. I made up some gussets out of some 1/4" for the bottoms of the brackets for a little added strength since I pointed these up a little. Alot more grinding today too. Gonna invest in a flap wheel to start dressing up stuff a little better.


Couldn't help it. Thinking about mounting the coil brackets on the inside of the frame to bring springs in a bit.



A little mock up.



This is where things are going to start getting messy. This is pretty much where the t-case is going to have to go. I would like to clock it flat but it will hit the frame rail. I think it may end up running at the OEM angle or maybe a c-hair above that. The hard part will be making a torque mount for it that will still clear the frame rail. I may have to make a torque mount that bolts to the front or rear simply to give myself some frame clearance.

A quick thought but I am afraid it would be too ridged even with poly motor mounts. Could a person drill 2 large holes in the side of the frame and insert some dom that a soft rubber YJ or CJ leaf spring bushing could go in. Then run a bolt through the bushing to the t-case? I am curious to see how others have stuffed a 205 beetween the rails. Cajun, you don't count.
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Old 07-22-2007, 09:22 PM   #12 (permalink)
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whuups, here's da pics.

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Old 07-22-2007, 10:59 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I mounted my Ford 205 with the factory clocking. At first I wanted to clock it flat, but discovered that wasn't necessary to keep it above the bottom of the frame. Actually, since you already have those lower link brackets hanging down I'm not sure why you're worried about mounting the xfer case flat. Personally I would cut those lower brackets off and move them to the side of the frame rails. Of course you may have to do some other changes to keep your geometry correct, but the end product will be a lot nicer.
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Old 07-23-2007, 06:36 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I'm pretty confident in the ability of the link mounts to take some abuse, the t-case, ehhh, not so much. Perhaps a skid plate that protects the 'case will be the way to go. Then just clock it factory. Any opinions about the spring bushing idea?
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Old 07-23-2007, 11:06 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Lookin' good
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Old 07-23-2007, 04:02 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Couldn't help it. Thinking about mounting the coil brackets on the inside of the frame to bring springs in a bit...
I wouldn't. I read somewhere to mount your coils as wide as possible, and find your compromise between flex and stability with your spring rate and shock setup. I outboarded my rear coils and am pretty happy. I'd like a taller, softer spring (I'm using stock F150 fronts), but that's just so the spring would be compressed more at ride height. I ran my rear leaf springs inboarded, and while they flexed great my front/rear suspension travel was heavily biased to the rear. I don't have as much rear flex now but I'm MUCH happier with the overall performance of the suspension.

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This is where things are going to start getting messy. This is pretty much where the t-case is going to have to go. I would like to clock it flat but it will hit the frame rail. I think it may end up running at the OEM angle or maybe a c-hair above that. The hard part will be making a torque mount for it that will still clear the frame rail. I may have to make a torque mount that bolts to the front or rear simply to give myself some frame clearance.

A quick thought but I am afraid it would be too ridged even with poly motor mounts. Could a person drill 2 large holes in the side of the frame and insert some dom that a soft rubber YJ or CJ leaf spring bushing could go in. Then run a bolt through the bushing to the t-case? I am curious to see how others have stuffed a 205 beetween the rails. Cajun, you don't count.
And now you understand.

EDIT: Nice work, looking forward to the rest of your build.

Last edited by Cajun; 07-23-2007 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 07-23-2007, 04:05 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Unhappy

.........annnnnnnd progress screeches to a halt, till Friday anyway. Checked account balance and I've got $9.76 plus the $3 or so in change I was able to find to get me through till the end of the week. Diesel gauge is in the yellow and not much food in the fridge. Soooooo, I'm ridin the moped to work and to the shop the rest of the week. I think the bottle of shielding gas put me over the edge. Friday is payday though!
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Old 07-23-2007, 04:31 PM   #18 (permalink)
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.........annnnnnnd progress screeches to a halt, till Friday anyway. Checked account balance and I've got $9.76 plus the $3 or so in change I was able to find to get me through till the end of the week. Diesel gauge is in the yellow and not much food in the fridge. Soooooo, I'm ridin the moped to work and to the shop the rest of the week. I think the bottle of shielding gas put me over the edge. Friday is payday though!
Got a fat chick?
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Old 07-23-2007, 05:25 PM   #19 (permalink)
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ha ha ha, the're both fun till your friends catch you riding one, we've all heard it, move along.
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Old 07-23-2007, 06:04 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Are the rear lower link frame and axle mounts the same width?

Having done one of these babies, keep something in mind, tack before you weld, it's less to grind when you have to reposition everything...

Looks good.
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Old 07-23-2007, 06:07 PM   #21 (permalink)
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nope, 3" wider per side on the axle. And very welded. I would find another axle before i would try to cut them off.
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Old 07-23-2007, 06:33 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Do not mount the springs inside the frame. You'd get much more flex, but your body roll would suck.
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Old 07-24-2007, 08:43 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Ok, outside it is! I was kind of starting to lean toward outside mounting anyway. I want to lean on the side of mall crawler rather than off-road only buggy when in doubt.

Got some stuff done tonight. Started mocking up powertrain a little more representative of the end project and it looks like things are gonna be tight, but not too bad! The t-case will be as far back as possible without interfering with the upper rear left link mount and everything will line right up, but just barely!

If I hadn't have gone so short with my doubler it wouldn't have worked out so well.

I have decided to rotate the 205 up as much as possible, and then move it up into a future hump under the passenger seat. The input centerline will be close to being in line with the top of the frame. Very tall but I think it will be necessary as the ZF also hangs pretty low.

I also got busy with a flap wheel and blinged out the rear axle, should look decent with a coat of PPG ATK black. Looks like the rear truss will be here thursday so I'm hoping to have the rear axle assembled, painted, and in by the end of this weekend.
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Old 07-24-2007, 09:33 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I have decided to rotate the 205 up as much as possible, and then move it up into a future hump under the passenger seat.
On mine I cut a big portion out of the bottom of the passenger seat to make things nice and tight. My rig is a bit different than yours though.
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Old 07-25-2007, 06:18 AM   #25 (permalink)
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My Atlas was very tight also, had to chamfer (1" Horizontal and 1.5"vertical) the inside top corner of the frame rail to roll it up flat and above the bottom of the frame. I then added .25" fish plate on the outside of the frame and bottome as a stiffiner. Then a hole had to be cut in the floor, and part of the seat bracket had to be sacrificed. I am now in the process of covering the hole and figuring out mount for front of seat.
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