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Old 07-28-2008, 04:00 PM   #201 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Snoopy View Post
There ya go Tom. I kinda answered the question in the next post. The 1x4 bar was welded directly to the frame, nothing between it and the frame, I figured the 2" bar connecting the two would suffice, particularly since we got it tying multiple sides of the frame for support.
Much better with the cross-bar/ crossmember in place.

I had some steering issues on my trail rig last week, so steering reinforcement / longevity is high on my mind.

If you hadn't put in that crossbar, I would've - particularly in this application, I think the "straight steer" is crucial with the panhard bar mount there, too.

Imagine dropping the Scout from 10' in the air. The panhard bar is going to cause the front axle to shift laterally as it moves through it's motion. The front suspension droops out the full 16" and is hanging by the limit straps, then the tires hit the ground, and the chassis follows quickly.

As the main weight of the Scout comes down, the panhard bar is going to shove the entire frame/body to the left (at least the first part, I didn't look to see whether the panhard is horizontal at ride height and goes the other way at full bump or not).

On the way up into the air, when the limit straps are taut, it's going to try pulling the panhard mount over to the passenger side.

Push, pull on that little spot of the frame, right next to the steering box that's doing the same.

Then consider a hard turn in rough terrain, with 3-4,000lbs of Scout leaning to the outside of the turn, wanting to slide the axles sideways, but the tires have enough traction (or hit something solid) to keep the axle from moving, so the whole chassis is pushing hard against the panhard.

Lots of reasons for that cross-member to tie the two sides of the frame together.

Speaking of the panhard - how does it look at full stuff? Everything clears?

I think the radiator mount / radiator cage will also add to the strength in this area.

For those at home.. I want to mount the radiator in front of the engine, roughly "stock" relative to the crank (12" back from the front/stock location) and put at least one "X" in front of, or behind, the radiator to help protect it in a rollover, and to stiffen up the front frame.
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Old 07-28-2008, 04:11 PM   #202 (permalink)
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Onto the driver side. The driver side was mounted on a slider to make it easy for Tom to get close to the wheel, then slide back for exiting. He's planning on a removeable steering wheel, but still. Every little bit helps.

The sliders, however require different mounts. They mount flat, which means instead of putting two bars verticle like the passenger side, we mounted them horizontal.


Since they aren't as strong in this position, we used angle iron on the inner side, and then welded a verticle piece on the outer side.


PLENTY strong. Oh, for tube, we used 1.5" HREW up front, and 1.75" DOM in back. Got beef?

Here's the slider handle stickin' out the front.


Both seats in place.


Now to finish up the odds-n-ends stuff. TEEDIOUS junk that keeps you busy for hours and hours. Does it ever end? Nope.

First thing to wrap up is the front coil-over towers mount to the frame. I wanted to keep the theme of mounting important structures to two sides of the frame rail to make sure they're sturdy. Well, in the front, to help clearance the Borgeson Steering Conversion with the coil-over towers, I possitioned the towers about 3/4" off the inside of the frame.


To fill that gap, for lack of a better term ~ and to give an extremely sturdy mount, I grabbed 3 cage kit feet plate per side and cut them like so.


The first one was 100% stock, a box plate and I used the bolt holes to rosette weld it to the inside of the frame.


The other two plates, cut smaller than the inside one, then got stacked in place.


Then the whole structure was welded together. This gave a adequate base to weld the coil-over tower too.


Other side matched.
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Old 07-28-2008, 04:37 PM   #203 (permalink)
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Other odds and ends.

I didn't finish putting the sleaves into the lower arms before, so here's ya go.

I got some 3/4" OD x 1/2" ID DOM cut into small lengths to 'sleeve' the bolt holes for the lower shock mounts in back. This way the bolts will be supported over a longer distance than just the boat-arm material width.


A 1.25" tube was cut to mimick the coil-over's dimension. This was placed centered in the arm to make sure the coil-overs will not touch the arm at any time.


Both sides in.


Welded up.


On the top I had planned to do the same as the bottom, but ran out of time. After all, I Rob was going to come pick this up and any second. And I was already running behind. Luckily ~ or unluckily ~ he had some trouble with his T-ette than delayed him a few days. Still, not enough time to do these. Tom can finish that up when the racer is safe at home.

I did cut an angle out of the rear top mounts to help them look better.


I also plated the inside, between the two upper shock mount plates for strength. I used a 2" hole saw to give a curve to the end nearest the shocks.


The system with the fake shocks in place for transport.


While we were at it, we added another bar to the dash area (below the steering column). We were going to build the center consule out of some 1" tube we aquired, but quickly realized that without the shifter, we didn't want to risk putting the consule at the wrong height....plus time was EXTREMELY short by this time.


One of the many things that fought us during the last few days of the build was bad parts from ebay jerks. Tom bought these from a guy and had them sent directly to me.

What was supposed to be small bearing GM spindles, ended up being LARGE bearing GM spindles. I called my machinist, and had the old-man come in to machine them to the right dimensions. Just one more thing!

Then, Tom accidently sent some Dana60 spindle lock nuts instead of Dana44 spindle lock nuts....They look a little big!


A quick 100mile trip to Chris Kecks place and we had some used scout spindle lock nuts (which fit, mostly)... and we even got a free set of rollers for the racer along with them. Quite a bit of $$ in gas, but hey ~ free parts finally!
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Old 07-28-2008, 04:48 PM   #204 (permalink)
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That got the front F1250 hubs in place for the rims...then we could roll it out the the garage...


....But not before a quick lap!


Finally, the Racer moves out of the garage to await immediate pickup.


....Coming into daylight....who'd have' thought!...


Parked....waiting....


Kids wonder why they can't see Rob? Too short?


Side picture before kicking the kids out.


No Rob today, maybe next month. At least the thunderstorms are right on time.

Nothing like bare metal and rain!
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Old 07-28-2008, 05:05 PM   #205 (permalink)
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Well, the racer is mostly safe. I got 3 tarps on it making sure the rain stays away. Good news is that preceeding the chassis rolling out of the shop, we had rain every day. Since then, nothing. The scout gods smile yet again.

So if you're wondering why I didn't show up at the RMIHR this year, its because I was in a mad fury dealing with the racer. In all, over $400 in misc metal, few hundred in last-minute machining, $135 in gas, two trips to the junkyard, one to Chris's, and tons of trips to the hot rod shop, chasin parts here and there, missed paintball with a buddy who is now moved, missed the RMIHR, missed church (can you beleive it?) even shopped on Sunday! STRIKE ME DOWN!, missed a move I was supposed to be at, cancelled friday night's soft-ball game (sorry Bonnie!), and countless other odds and ends, but unless Tom convinces me otherwise, my part of the chassis is done.

Bad news is that Robs T-ette troubles required him to skip picking it up. So it sits in my front yard...waiting. It would have been nice to know ahead of time, but after getting the T-ette running, Rob went straight home to Billings MT from RMIHR. Thanks be to Gary Billings and wife Lori for giving him a place to stay, and a Scout to drive to get the parts he needed, but when all was said and done, the T-ette was still overheating when Rob and fam drove back to MT. The good news is that he's safe at home now and the T-ette is getting the repairs it needs.

The plan is to come get it more sooner than later ~ unless I can get a cool $6500 for the chassis from someone else.....





Any takers? Come get it!! Its ready to go!






OH calm down Tom. Sorry couldn't help it. Thats what you guys get for not being able to come get it!!!

Tom should be updating this thread with ongoing pictures and details that finish up the build.

EDIT: 365 'official' pictures total thus far.
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Old 07-28-2008, 05:28 PM   #206 (permalink)
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Looks good Damian, to bad it didn't get picked up like planned
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Old 07-28-2008, 05:34 PM   #207 (permalink)
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Thanks Chris, expecially for the rollers and those lock-nuts. Helped out.

Ya I was bummed when it didn't go away, but the reasons are understandable. I'd done the same thing ~ no need killing a fresh engine swap for something that can reasonably be done at a different time. It'll get picked up soon.
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Old 07-28-2008, 05:48 PM   #208 (permalink)
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Damn that things starting to look good!
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Old 07-28-2008, 05:52 PM   #209 (permalink)
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Thanks! I have to say that putting the seats in it did wonders for it becoming more than a bunch of tube. Before that, it was a project that was never done, after the seats went in, it turned it into a scout again ~ something more than tube and metal. Helped getting it finished.

I personally can't wait to see it done. Rob's got some aluminum guy to build the trans cover/hump, finish off the bed and bulkhead and some odds and ends. Then Toms going to get it. I hope it sees a full disassembly, paint, reassembly and kins soon. Then it'll looks awesome ~ right now its still kinda raw....if you know what I mean.
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:37 PM   #210 (permalink)
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Thanks Chris, expecially for the rollers and those lock-nuts. Helped out.

Ya I was bummed when it didn't go away, but the reasons are understandable. I'd done the same thing ~ no need killing a fresh engine swap for something that can reasonably be done at a different time. It'll get picked up soon.
Watcha got planned for next Wednesday morning? August 6th?
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:41 PM   #211 (permalink)
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Man D I wish you would quit playing on the internet and get to work.

Looking good man. Your work never ceases to amaze me..
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Old 07-29-2008, 12:41 AM   #212 (permalink)
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BTW - did you pull Jacob's motor back out?

I have something a little more potent than an old stock 304 in mind for it..

Definitely nice to have a chance to eyeball it from a distance, out of the shop.

Still a bit Fugly with the small tires and no skins - but that'll change with Dale's quarters, some front fenders, some paint..



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Old 07-29-2008, 12:59 AM   #213 (permalink)
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Damn Tom, the racer used to look pretty straight. I was under the impression that it was always a piece of crap The new one looks nice and I think yall are keeping up a pretty good pace for scout people. Rock on.
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Old 07-29-2008, 09:26 AM   #214 (permalink)
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Man D I wish you would quit playing on the internet and get to work.
Tell me about it. But after a week of building, and playing catchup, securing the new shop, and getting ready to move in, things have been quite hecktic and I had LOTS to upload. On the bright side, it kept me by the phone!

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Looking good man. Your work never ceases to amaze me..
Thanks. Should be a good base for Tom to finish.

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Watcha got planned for next Wednesday morning? August 6th?
Are you serious or just teasing again? Hehehehe... Oh man, I had a sang in high school that went: "That's what they all say, then they never call!" But I think that would be pushing my luck.

If you come, I'll make time. We need to hash out some details, but that should be good. Are you coming down or is Rob? Both is perfered. Is it cheaper to send it up?

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BTW - did you pull Jacob's motor back out?
No, not planning too. Jacob wants his hoist chains back, but other than that, the motor is getting left right where it sits.

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I have something a little more potent than an old stock 304 in mind for it..
Lets hope!

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Definitely nice to have a chance to eyeball it from a distance, out of the shop.

Still a bit Fugly with the small tires and no skins - but that'll change with Dale's quarters, some front fenders, some paint..
Yes it is. Kinda a jungle gym of sorts and hard to tell what you're looking at in the picture. Some paint, skins, and interior work will do wonders in that department. But the base is there.

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Damn Tom, the racer used to look pretty straight. I was under the impression that it was always a piece of crap
It lasted that straight for how long?

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The new one looks nice and I think yall are keeping up a pretty good pace for scout people. Rock on.
'For Scout people' ~ kinda has a 'bless your heart' ring eh?
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Old 07-29-2008, 09:29 AM   #215 (permalink)
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Hey tom, what size tires are you going to? What width and rims?
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Old 07-29-2008, 09:43 AM   #216 (permalink)
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Damn Tom, the racer used to look pretty straight. I was under the impression that it was always a piece of crap The new one looks nice and I think yall are keeping up a pretty good pace for scout people. Rock on.
It's a shame the only show I've taken the "pretty" racer to is the Just IH show twice in CdA Idaho. Never has been back to RMIHR since I rebodied and painted it.

It was ugly when I started.. this is my buddy's old racer, that was the start of "Little Devil"



and then this was Little Devil when I started..



And at the begging of the week I built it in..



That was 1999.

The nice picture above was from 2005 when I rebodied it after a roll-over. The next year, I pulled the body off and reworked 2/3 of the frame fixing cracks, tears, and other failure points before putting the body back on.

The "in action" picture is from March of 2008 after a few years of beating on the new body.

Since March I put new front springs in, and need to replace the rear springs in the next week or two before the next race.

That's the third set of front springs, but only the second set of rears since 1999.
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Old 07-29-2008, 02:29 PM   #217 (permalink)
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Hey tom, what size tires are you going to? What width and rims?
At the moment, I want to push the tire shop for either 33x12.50 or 35x12.50-17s

I know I can get 35x12.50-17 take-off CORR race rubber cheap from another race team near by if I end up ponying up for tires down the road.

Sort of want 35s, but at the same time, more tire = more body work to the skins. That is why I had you push the front axle forward a touch, though - keep 35s out of the firewall.

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Are you serious or just teasing again? Hehehehe... Oh man, I had a sang in high school that went: "That's what they all say, then they never call!" But I think that would be pushing my luck.

If you come, I'll make time. We need to hash out some details, but that should be good. Are you coming down or is Rob? Both is perfered. Is it cheaper to send it up?
Cheaper to have it shipped up, but more expedient to come down and get it, since none of the other plans panned out, and here it is almost August 2008, and we're a year behind schedule and before I know it, it'll be winter again.

I have a race in Billings on 8/17, so 8/16 I'd be meeting with Dana about the interior and other finish work that needs done. 9/14 there's another race in Billings, so I'd be back through and theoretically could pick it up and haul it back home (either flat-tow Devil behind the GN, or pull the 16-er behind the GN if need be.. or talk a buddy into helping out).

After the plumbing, engine, and so on is all taken care of, it has to go back to Billings to the paint n' body shop, and so on.

Billings is $250 away for me and 4-5 hours. I try not to make it a habit to run over there too often.

In any case, right now, Robert is planning to take an employee and a service truck down to Colorado Springs on Tuesday and spend the night, swing by Wed morning and then steam for home. That's the plan as I know it right now.

Quote:
It lasted that straight for how long?
With the paint and stickers? 2 days.

I then replaced the brand new quarter with another brand new quarter, repainted, re-decal'd, and took it to the JustIH show a week or two later and won my class.

Hasn't been "that" beat up since, just a slow, gradual deterioration from a little rubbin' here and a little bump there. Had the other quarter panel leaned over at a good list at one point, but porta-power'd it back straight enough. Had to add more stiffeners to the front clip to keep it from falling apart, etc.

At this point, I keep applying band aids as needed because it's always been "After this next race, the new car will be ready, so who cares!" which turns into "just one more" and "okay, maybe it'll hold up to another one" and so on.
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:59 AM   #218 (permalink)
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At the moment, I want to push the tire shop for either 33x12.50 or 35x12.50-17s

I know I can get 35x12.50-17 take-off CORR race rubber cheap from another race team near by if I end up ponying up for tires down the road.
35s on 17s would be nice. Really nice.

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Sort of want 35s, but at the same time, more tire = more body work to the skins.
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and here it is almost August 2008, and we're a year behind schedule and before I know it, it'll be winter again.
Good, quick and Cheap. Tom, pick two.

I have to earn a living as well as pay the guy helping me work on it ~ and I did it without any personal compensation whatsoever ~ what did you expect!?! I got it done.
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:52 AM   #219 (permalink)
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Good, quick and Cheap. Tom, pick two.
:shrug: Just stating the obvious - it IS a year later, and it WILL be winter soon - and if I can avoid towing on icy roads with the wind blowing, I prefer to do that.

Especially with a 2wd tow rig. Not fun. BTDT.

And I still have a truck load of money to (earn first, then) spend (along with time, of course) on the rest of this project. The sooner I get started, the sooner it gets done - so the sooner we pick it up, the sooner everything else happens.
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Old 07-30-2008, 01:45 PM   #220 (permalink)
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Old 10-28-2008, 10:11 AM   #221 (permalink)
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Truck is in Montana now
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Old 10-28-2008, 11:28 AM   #222 (permalink)
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Couldn't help myself.


Plus

Equals:
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Old 10-28-2008, 02:18 PM   #223 (permalink)
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I wasn't going to go into this, but since Rob brought it up in the open. Here we go. For this, I'll assume the possition that everything was my fault. All delays, cost over-runs everything. My fault. Got that everyone?

As noted when we started this build (see posts on page one). This build started as a chat, that came up with an idea, that led to the build. I would donate my time and suspension. Rob, would pay for expenses. Tom, will help the build with tech advise and would race the end result.

Initially we agreed on $3000. $2000 for suspension parts, and $1000 for tube work. $500 for overrun. Before we go any further, Rob only remembers the $2000. So when we met the budget I was working off of, we were WAY over what he was. Due to the fact it wasn't brought up, I kept going. Unfortunately, Because we did nothing in writting, neither one of us can prove either way whose right. For sake of arguement, I will take the blame for this mistake.

To accomplish this Rob had a chassis around the back of his house that we could use, as well as some coil-over-shocks. This was early-to-mid 2007. The goal was to throw a chassis together by RMIHR of the same year ~ or at least get one to Rob for finishing.

This did not happen. In fact, it was a year late, being ready for delivery RMIHR 2008.



Here are two invoices. The first is the actual one. It includes some extras and unexpected costs.

The second is the cost of the build minus the 'extras'
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Old 10-29-2008, 10:24 AM   #224 (permalink)
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Milking of the money invoices....
This makes me giggle a little bit...

You should really stop trying so hard to make it appear that you are not the bad guy in all situations. Just a simple review of your "invoice" would tell me that I would not want to do business with you.

Consumables, and items such as fasteners, typically go into your "shop rate". They are items that are a necessity for you to operate a "shop". To charge labor, then consumables, and THEN gas on top of it to pick up your flowers, garden gnomes, and chicken shit for the garden at Lowes is not ethical.

Douche...

Our company charges $108.00 per hour to operate. When we quote a project, or a custom parts order that will require "shop time" we factor in our operating rate. That rate has the following items included in it:

1. Power for the lights.
2. Consumables such as hand cleaner, shop rags, solvents, grease, packaging supplies, etc.
3. Coffee for the employees.
4. Paper for the quotes and postage for the invoices.
5. General assembly hardware not excluding bolts, washers, Loctite, fittings.

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Old 10-29-2008, 01:20 PM   #225 (permalink)
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Snoop,

I don't think showing an invoice is going to prove you are legit. Customer service is the name of the game, and it's something you earn, not prove. Considering I'm mechanically deficient, I've spent my fair share of cash on fabrication and rely on the expertise of the person I work with. Now if that person is not up front or takes my money and doesn't give me somthing in return in a reasonable amount of time, that person would never see another dime from me. As you know fabrication and specialized parts are not cheap, but 9 time out of 10, I would spend more with a person I know I can trust and stands behind his word. In a way you are lucky that you have chosen a business without a lot of competition and has a captive audience, so for now your lack of customer service hasn't been your downfall. But rest assured it will catch up with you. A word of advice, start focusing on the people that pay your bills, it just might help to restore your image.

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