IH engine tech - Page 2 - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > Brand Specific Tech > International Harvester
Notices

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-09-2010, 03:35 PM   #26 (permalink)
Granite Guru
 
levi1a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Member # 106935
Location: crossville TN.
Posts: 993
I'm sure this is an R and not exactly what your building, but you can get an idea of the height.

YouTube - Blown 345 IH Scout Motor Dyno
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



SEBA

Last edited by levi1a; 01-09-2010 at 04:36 PM.
levi1a is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-09-2010, 04:50 PM   #27 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Member # 4586
Location: Somewhere in the middle of Montana
Posts: 1,747
Levi thats very close, however if you look at the intake manifold they have it tall to have room for the dissy. I/we are looking at doing the sheet metal intake about half that tall. The issue I have is the motor will be tall and I am using a 6" drop frt axle to keep the car overall very low. I am looking at crank triggers and maybe an offset mag now. I lost my friken camera as soon as I find it I need to show you guys some pictures. I also need to snap a picture of a Tom Woods shaft I have left over for Buck.
__________________
RIP Ricky, you are missed.
JetFxr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Old 01-17-2010, 09:14 PM   #28 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Member # 4586
Location: Somewhere in the middle of Montana
Posts: 1,747
Bringing this to the top, I need some help/advice I am now looking for advice on distributorless ign systems. The motor will be too tall with the blower, and carbs because the intake manifold will need to be taller than the dissy. As OS referred to earlier I looked at crank triggers but it seems they only control the spark output to the dist. I need to find a way to fire the spark with out a dissy, and hoping not to have a computer also. I know the new gen GMs do not have a dissy but I am not having much luck finding a system on the web. I am also thinking the newer stuff uses a cam sensor also and I don't see a way to even go that route on my 304/IH junk motor. Thanks for input here.
__________________
RIP Ricky, you are missed.
JetFxr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-17-2010, 10:48 PM   #29 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Binder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Member # 1684
Location: Everett Wa USA
Posts: 2,985
I think you're on the right track with the newer GM systems. You could probably make a cam sensor work in the place of the distributor that would be very low profile. How much room do you have?
__________________
S.N.O.R.T.
Binder is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-18-2010, 06:31 AM   #30 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Member # 10757
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 94
Ford EDIS System

Have you thought about a Ford EDIS system? They are a wasted spark system and the older ones are relatively simple and there is a lot of information about them on the net. Here is a basic schematic and best of all you can pull them from the junkyard all day long.



And here are some links link1 link2 to good info and another to a company that makes an inexpensive EDIS controller.

I bought a crank trigger on e-bay, and had the center machined out to press fit on the inside of the harmonic balancer. Since it is a Ford it uses the standard 36-1 style tooth count and then get a VR sensor and fab a bracket to locate it and that is about it.

You can also use Dodge style coils, supposedly hotter and they do not have the funky Ford style terminations.

PM me if you get a chance.
__________________
'77 scout II - '67 Scout 800 - '05 Dodge CTD 4x4 Quad Cab

Last edited by jpeater; 01-19-2010 at 10:20 AM. Reason: links to information and controller updated
jpeater is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-18-2010, 06:42 AM   #31 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Member # 50955
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,647
How does one adjust their ignition curve with that?
472Scout is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-18-2010, 11:11 AM   #32 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Member # 121028
Location: Yerington, NV
Posts: 659
I'd think to adjust the ignition curve with the ford system is to tinker with the controller.
It looks like you would adjust it like you would for say a diesel that has been chipped.
__________________
[CENTER]01 FFL

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Mention "Pirate" for 10% off.

Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum
Molon Labe
[/CENTER]
[QUOTE=Thomas Jefferson;] The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. [/QUOTE]
okkool77 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-18-2010, 02:35 PM   #33 (permalink)
Rock God
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Member # 130003
Location: Polk City, Iowa
Posts: 2,447
Maybe look at MSD web site. I know they make a system that is only as tall as the dist. cap. The rest is done by crank trigger and a box. (Like a MSD 6, or 6 marine, 7-AL2, MSD 8, etc.)
I have seen those dist caps run off a cog belt on the front of the engine also.
Sonny's Racing Engines, or Steve Schmidt racing engines may have pictures on some of their mountain motors for 4wd truck pullers,,,,
May also be on MSD web site,,
Can't wait to see how this one turns out! Sounds bad ass !!
Harold Phipps is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-18-2010, 03:27 PM   #34 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Member # 4586
Location: Somewhere in the middle of Montana
Posts: 1,747
Talk to JPEater todayGot him on board as ign tech go to. I think I will be using a ford EDIS system in some fuction. We are getting the axles and links under it so it can be a roller. I still can't find my camera but I'll borrow one so I can post up some pictures tonite.
__________________
RIP Ricky, you are missed.
JetFxr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-18-2010, 07:06 PM   #35 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Member # 4586
Location: Somewhere in the middle of Montana
Posts: 1,747
OK shitty cell phone pix but here are the first of this project. Looking at the first picture you can see why I'm concerned about the engine hight issues. Also there is a pix of the channel job from the rear picture. Just started mocking up axles, and hair pins.
Attached Images
    
__________________
RIP Ricky, you are missed.
JetFxr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-18-2010, 07:23 PM   #36 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Member # 4586
Location: Somewhere in the middle of Montana
Posts: 1,747
Way shitty pictures I know still looking for my camera. Here a picture of the hair pin on the frt axle, will have the same on the rear axle. Also my Scout with the caddy 500 is done The Scout is stupid to drive but way fun. Away here's picture of the GF building the 500, it's cool to have her build her motor.
Attached Images
  
__________________
RIP Ricky, you are missed.
JetFxr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-18-2010, 08:16 PM   #37 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Member # 50955
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,647
Quote:
Originally Posted by okkool77 View Post
I'd think to adjust the ignition curve with the ford system is to tinker with the controller.
It looks like you would adjust it like you would for say a diesel that has been chipped.
I was looking for a higher level of tech than "tinker" with the controller.
472Scout is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-18-2010, 08:35 PM   #38 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Member # 72315
Posts: 1
Sweet project Robert.

Subscribed.
MikeInMobile,AL is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-18-2010, 08:49 PM   #39 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Member # 4586
Location: Somewhere in the middle of Montana
Posts: 1,747
Welcome to the Bar Mike.
__________________
RIP Ricky, you are missed.
JetFxr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-18-2010, 09:23 PM   #40 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Binder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Member # 1684
Location: Everett Wa USA
Posts: 2,985
Quote:
Originally Posted by 472Scout View Post
I was looking for a higher level of tech than "tinker" with the controller.
I agree and I would do some research on this before making the decision to use a EEC system....I have not worked with one recently but not long ago making program adjustments with these systems was a joke at best. Also does it have provisions for boost?
Just saying do your homework before jumping.
__________________
S.N.O.R.T.
Binder is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-18-2010, 10:59 PM   #41 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Member # 121028
Location: Yerington, NV
Posts: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by 472Scout View Post
I was looking for a higher level of tech than "tinker" with the controller.
Well I've never used it before so I was taking a stab in the dark.
Anyways, I'm willing to learn.
__________________
[CENTER]01 FFL

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Mention "Pirate" for 10% off.

Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum
Molon Labe
[/CENTER]
[QUOTE=Thomas Jefferson;] The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. [/QUOTE]
okkool77 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-19-2010, 12:02 PM   #42 (permalink)
Blower Binder
 
64dumptruck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Member # 142191
Location: Monticello Illinois
Posts: 645
What kind of belt are you using? My belt is the longest 8mm i could get and it barely fit on a shorter block.
__________________
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Ben Franklin

"Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." Malcolm X
64dumptruck is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-19-2010, 06:13 PM   #43 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Member # 4586
Location: Somewhere in the middle of Montana
Posts: 1,747
Dude I not near the belt stage yet. Still mocking up the chassis, got to floor the cab, chop the top, chop and fit the doors, and yata yata yata. I am looking at all the options for the motor and fitting it all together, kinda tough sense every thing is one off. Thinking heads will work because of the block over bore. I am an Air o plane mechanic spent all my time on Jets so these piston things are a little tough for me, Mandera has been very good at helping me spend my wad on this project Bottom line is time schedule will be a little slower than I would like, am hoping to have it ready for RMIHR.
__________________
RIP Ricky, you are missed.
JetFxr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-20-2010, 02:16 PM   #44 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Member # 2071
Location: Helena, MT USA
Posts: 5,084
Send a message via AIM to tsm1mt
Quote:
Originally Posted by REDDMANIAC View Post
anything special about bolting 392 heads to a 304?
Valves hit the deck, and the square-port 304 intake won't mate up nicely to the rectangle port 392 head intake port - might have some intake leaks.

Port matching problem is solved with a sheet metal intake (or, in the case of the Hankins skunkworks motor of 304 heads on a 345, with a lot of weld and grind to match)

If you opted for IC392 heads, you run into all sorts of problems with the water passages, too.

I ran some numbers yesterday looking to make an educated cam selection - and since Robert doesn't want an all out race mill, it turns out (on paper, mind you) that 6psi of boost and the stock cam grind make the most useful power (more boost or more cam both push the power peaks over 5k and in the case of the cam, starts robbing the bottom end - more boost just yields more heat until you get over 5k and then it makes a little more power) - but then Robert indicated a desire for a bit of a lope at idle, so we'll need some overlap.. which will push the power curve up higher than practical, but yield the desired rumpity idle (if you can hear it over the blower whine).

I only started looking at the EDIS stuff, but from what I can tell it uses a MAP sensor (and you can get a 2 or 3 bar MAP that registers boost) for "vacuum" and you'd program it with a laptop (much like a GM EFI setup) but all you control is the timing curve (against manifold vacuum or pressure).

I have a friend that was running an EDIS system on a carb'd 351W in his FJ40 drag car (I don't know if the EDIS was originally installed on the nasty Cleveland that predated the Windsor install or not) (OK, yeah, it was a sand-drag "car" - and functional 4x4)
__________________
-Tom
KE7VUX
tsm1mt is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-20-2010, 02:55 PM   #45 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Mechanos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6704
Location: Roosterville, Missouri
Posts: 7,696
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFxr View Post
...The motor will be too tall with the blower...
Use a 196 bellhousing to cant the engine over to the side!

Would definitely be unique!!!!!!!
__________________
Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.
Mechanos is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-20-2010, 04:01 PM   #46 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Member # 2071
Location: Helena, MT USA
Posts: 5,084
Send a message via AIM to tsm1mt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanos View Post
Use a 196 bellhousing to cant the engine over to the side!

Would definitely be unique!!!!!!!


Nothing a dry sump wouldn't correct.. then we could even toss aside the oil pump and pan and lower the whole thing a little more.

Just make sure the valve cover gaskets don't leak on the downhill side.
__________________
-Tom
KE7VUX
tsm1mt is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-20-2010, 04:05 PM   #47 (permalink)
Registered User
 
larboc@hotmail.com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Member # 70148
Location: da U.P. of MI eh?
Posts: 6,234
Any reason to fight EEC instead of using GM DIS?
__________________
I don't pay nothing for anything.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
larboc@hotmail.com is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-20-2010, 07:19 PM   #48 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Binder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Member # 1684
Location: Everett Wa USA
Posts: 2,985
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsm1mt View Post
- but then Robert indicated a desire for a bit of a lope at idle, so we'll need some overlap.. which will push the power curve up higher than practical, but yield the desired rumpity idle (if you can hear it over the blower whine).
I don't understand the logic behind valve overlap with boost??? What would the benifit be?
__________________
S.N.O.R.T.
Binder is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-20-2010, 07:22 PM   #49 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Member # 2071
Location: Helena, MT USA
Posts: 5,084
Send a message via AIM to tsm1mt
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Any reason to fight EEC instead of using GM DIS?
Because I found an aftermarket box to run the Ford crap and get the whole thing together for around 2 bills - and I haven't seen (or researched!) anything about a GM system that would work with the carb any easier.
__________________
-Tom
KE7VUX
tsm1mt is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-20-2010, 07:24 PM   #50 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Member # 2071
Location: Helena, MT USA
Posts: 5,084
Send a message via AIM to tsm1mt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Binder View Post
I don't understand the logic behind valve overlap with boost??? What would the benifit be?
The sound at idle is the only benefit.

I don't see any other advantage and many disadvantages to more cam.

Maybe with the Ford timing/ignition setup we could just drop out a few cylinders at idle to give it a choppy idle?
__________________
-Tom
KE7VUX
tsm1mt is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

** A VERIFICATION EMAIL IS SENT TO THIS ADDRESS TO COMPLETE REGISTRATION!! **

Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.