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Old 12-14-2011, 11:20 AM   #226 (permalink)
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Here is a pic of the links when they were virgins.



I'm think about plating between the the two links with a piece of 1/4" plate. I don't think this would reduce articulation significantly over the existing set up and would be simple and even reversable if need be.

Tom M, isn't your racer using radius arms?
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Old 12-14-2011, 11:44 AM   #227 (permalink)
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Buck the rods need to twist when the axle moves, if you plate it the rods will not be able to. I think it will limit your movement. My Scout has the same set up with coil springs and work very nice.
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Old 12-14-2011, 11:47 AM   #228 (permalink)
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Why not eliminate the offending short arms and put in an upper link?
For a true 3 link.
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Old 12-14-2011, 11:51 AM   #229 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JetFxr View Post
Buck the rods need to twist when the axle moves, if you plate it the rods will not be able to. I think it will limit your movement. My Scout has the same set up with coil springs and work very nice.
Can you post some pics?
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Old 12-14-2011, 12:03 PM   #230 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Binder View Post
Eliminate the joint at center of the link. Weld the tubes together. A radius arm doesn't pivot in the middle.
Rick is right. It's also much much stronger.

Figure out where/how you want it, then weld it and plate it.

Mine still need plated.

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Old 12-14-2011, 07:00 PM   #231 (permalink)
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I just reread the discussion on front end design we had in my rear suspension build on BB starting about post 120. It just goes to show I've forgotton more than I know.

http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/s...=52069&page=12

I think I might plate one side, the passenger side and do nothing with the drivers side and see what happens.
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Old 12-14-2011, 10:17 PM   #232 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Dodson View Post

I think I might plate one side, the passenger side and do nothing with the drivers side and see what happens.

Would that allow one side to move and the other not to move in the same fashion that they move now?

Edit: maybe not.... might be just the same to plate both sides.

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Old 12-15-2011, 07:25 AM   #233 (permalink)
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it would be real easy to take those short links off, and add an upper link straight to the frame for a true 3 link on the driveshaft side. after christmas I'm going to be building a 3link for my scout, and doing it like that. should work great.
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Old 03-17-2012, 02:59 PM   #234 (permalink)
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Poser shot from today



What you don't see, is the right rear coil out of the retainer. A bit of a pisser, but I will say it is much easier replacing a coil spring than a leaf spring.

I will be modifying the retainer "system" to try and prevent the missing spring flex shot.

I still havent welded a plate between the links on one side, but I hope that will minimize that pesky intermintant DW...
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Old 03-17-2012, 04:52 PM   #235 (permalink)
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It looks good Scott

I would build a bumpstop that sits inside the coilsprings in the rear so that it also retains the coil and still lets it droop out. Like people put in their heeps
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Old 03-17-2012, 06:31 PM   #236 (permalink)
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I think this took care of the Death Wobble



I drove about 9 miles and up to almost 50 mph and no sign of DW. The links were rotating so much, it seems kind of amazing I drove it like that.
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Old 03-17-2012, 08:33 PM   #237 (permalink)
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That should do it. Any particular reason you didn't go with a 3 link?
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Old 03-18-2012, 10:49 AM   #238 (permalink)
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Any particular reason you didn't go with a 3 link?
Sure, at the time if the initial design, I don't see how I would have been able to place the upper link on a truss over the diff and clear the oil pan with the ride height I was expecting.

I know it's possible (because there are 3 link front ends running around), but there is a ton of shit to get in a small space and it ends up being a compromise. I'm not too sure I would be comfortable driving the 3 link I'd have to build, on the road, at speed, and being able to drive to the trails was just about my #1 requirement for this rig.

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Old 03-19-2012, 02:51 PM   #239 (permalink)
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I'm not too sure I would be comfortable driving the 3 link I'd have to build, on the road, at speed, and being able to drive to the trails was just about my #1 requirement for this rig.
Buck:

Iíve read both of your link builds and also read 472Scoutís. It appears you did a lot of research so maybe you ran across some 3 link issues you did not mention. What made you uncomfortable about driving a 3 link? Fabrication skills and relying on one link or the way it functions? If function, what?

Iím in the layout phase of linking my 80 and do not see a way to get the upper (third) link to the middle of the axle due to obstructions. Iíve read that attaching the single upper link offset to one side will cause the Scout to pull to the opposite side of the Scout the link is on during braking. I can see how this would happen and am curious if you ran across the same issue.

If anyone else has experienced this please share.

Also, how close do the top of your front tires get to your coilovers on the front during articulation?
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Old 03-19-2012, 04:49 PM   #240 (permalink)
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Buck:

Iíve read both of your link builds and also read 472Scoutís. It appears you did a lot of research so maybe you ran across some 3 link issues you did not mention. What made you uncomfortable about driving a 3 link? Fabrication skills and relying on one link or the way it functions? If function, what?

Iím in the layout phase of linking my 80 and do not see a way to get the upper (third) link to the middle of the axle due to obstructions. Iíve read that attaching the single upper link offset to one side will cause the Scout to pull to the opposite side of the Scout the link is on during braking. I can see how this would happen and am curious if you ran across the same issue.

If anyone else has experienced this please share.

Also, how close do the top of your front tires get to your coilovers on the front during articulation?
I think my front 3 link issues are running my upper link(s) off of my lower links and the rotation of the links I could not control with this design. If I had the frame end of the upper link on the frame, I don't think the axle would be able to rotate, even if the upper link was paralell to the lower link (instead of angled in to the top of the diff).

I don't know about pulling to one side when braking.

This suspension, even after plating my links into radius arms, exceeds my wheeling requirements and expectations, I wanted a good all purpose rig with a bias to the trail, and it works for my needs.

The tires do not rub the coilovers at compression

I tried to design for 4" compression and 8" extension, to get more extension I'd need longer links and I think I would get into drive shaft binding issues.

and finally, it's not fabrication skills
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Old 03-19-2012, 05:31 PM   #241 (permalink)
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The tires do not rub the coilovers at compression

I tried to design for 4" compression and 8" extension, to get more extension I'd need longer links and I think I would get into drive shaft binding issues.

and finally, it's not fabrication skills
Have you ever measured or observed how close the tires get to the coils at compression? I saw that your at roughly 63" WMS-WMS and designed the width around tire clearance to the frame when turning. I didn't see any discussion regarding design considerations for coil clearance. I'm asking because I want to my front to be a little narrower than that.

Thanks
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Old 03-19-2012, 06:46 PM   #242 (permalink)
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Ok, this is the best I can do for you today...


This is the compressed side, but you can see it is not fully on the bumpstop.



Here is the extended side



and here is the ramp...



So, this also tests the "after plating" and I can say I have flexed on this hill enough to say I did not reduce my articulation by any noticeable amount

The links are still in in the verticle position too.
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:11 PM   #243 (permalink)
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Have you ever measured or observed how close the tires get to the coils at compression? I saw that your at roughly 63" WMS-WMS and designed the width around tire clearance to the frame when turning. I didn't see any discussion regarding design considerations for coil clearance. I'm asking because I want to my front to be a little narrower than that.

Thanks
How narrow is to narrow on these little scouts? I have a 67 that I just put a 60" wms rear 60 under it and I don't really want to go any wider when I build the front 60 if I can get away with it. I am more comcerned with turning with 37's. I am also going to link the front.
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:10 PM   #244 (permalink)
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How narrow is to narrow on these little scouts? I have a 67 that I just put a 60" wms rear 60 under it and I don't really want to go any wider when I build the front 60 if I can get away with it. I am more comcerned with turning with 37's. I am also going to link the front.
I don't rub with my 35's because I added the 3"+/- to the axle.

Narrower axle and bigger tires will rub on the frame and limit turning radius.
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Old 03-20-2012, 10:44 AM   #245 (permalink)
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How narrow is to narrow on these little scouts? I have a 67 that I just put a 60" wms rear 60 under it and I don't really want to go any wider when I build the front 60 if I can get away with it. I am more comcerned with turning with 37's. I am also going to link the front.
I want to go 59 inches WMS-WMS in the rear and 60 inches in the front. Basically Scout II width. This should put the tread on the tires (315/75R16 on 16x8) I have just inside the wheel well in the rear.

I watched Buck figure out his front end width and followed the logic and do not think I could get to 60 inches in the front without limiting the turning radius too much. Iím using a Chevy ĺ ton Dana 44 with a 69 inch WMS-WMS in front. Right now there is 41 inches between the tires when turned to lock so I can narrow the front 6 inches and not rub the 35 inch wide frame. Walla! Iím right at 63 inches which Buck ended up with but still want to go narrower. In reality the width I end up with is going to be determined by which axle shafts I end up using. The early math shows 61-1/2 to 62 inches is probable.

Buck, I donít intend to hijack your thread. My planning on my project just seems to verify what you did.
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Old 03-21-2012, 02:16 PM   #246 (permalink)
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if you had to do it again would you have not ran a joint on the upper links that attach to the lower links? I want to do this to my scout at some point with coils for the front, I have a 89 Ford 60 so I am wide and have the pumpkin offest to the drivers side a ways
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:05 PM   #247 (permalink)
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if you had to do it again would you have not ran a joint on the upper links that attach to the lower links? I want to do this to my scout at some point with coils for the front, I have a 89 Ford 60 so I am wide and have the pumpkin offest to the drivers side a ways
If I did this again...

I think I would would run a straight radius arm like Tom's in Post #230. I would also be willing to run the a little longer arm than I have now, and give up a little ground clearance on the bottom of the frame, maybe up to 6" longer.

If I was going to trailer this to the trails, I would consider trying to get triangulated upper links from the axle to the frame.

I am very happy with the all purposness of the finished product, for my needs it works very well. At this point I just want to drive the piss out of it for a while.

Who likes jackstands anyway...
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Old 03-21-2012, 10:52 PM   #248 (permalink)
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I've wheel the hell out of the 4jackstand area and it just not much fun any more. I've been looking for new places to wheel.
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Old 04-04-2012, 03:20 PM   #249 (permalink)
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So my piece of crap Hardon Power steering pump went out this weekend. I wouldn't think 35's would require a upgrade in Power steering pumps...
The one thing I am doing is running a small 3" pully which would make the pump spin faster and potentially build more heat.

Does anyone run a stock Scout II power steering pump with 35's or larger without problems?
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Old 04-04-2012, 03:54 PM   #250 (permalink)
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So my piece of crap Hardon Power steering pump went out this weekend. I wouldn't think 35's would require a upgrade in Power steering pumps...
The one thing I am doing is running a small 3" pully which would make the pump spin faster and potentially build more heat.

Does anyone run a stock Scout II power steering pump with 35's or larger without problems?

We ran 35's on a stock Scout II PS pump on Rockscout. Had 0 problems even with all the crap we put it through while on course. I don't know if it still is, I think Dboy upgraded the steering to hyrdo-assist for the current owner. I don't know if he changed the pump or not, but until then it had the same pump that was on the engine when binderbound bought it.
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