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Old 04-13-2016, 09:31 AM   #1 (permalink)
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atlas t case. should i or should i not?

ok, as im gathering parts for my build i have one decision i am having a hard time making. i figure for 2500-3000 i can buy an atlas used or new, whatever. i understand that for around a grand i can get an underdrive but for the extra thousand to 1500 id rather just go atlas.

typical 3/4 link xj on tons with 40s, probably stickies. do i NEED an atlas. or should i just go lower axle gears and run the stock tcase. i could put the atlass money into other parts of the build. what say the hardcore cherokee owners? my main thing is i want to travel long distances to wheel and dont want to break 30 minutes into the weekend.
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Old 04-13-2016, 09:37 AM   #2 (permalink)
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atlas t case. should i or should i not?

Atlas. Save money by going spools or welded if you have to. Low gears help, and throw it in front-only to steer if it pushes. Sticky tires suggest trailer rig to me.
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Old 04-13-2016, 09:40 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Build a doubler and save yourself $2K.
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Old 04-13-2016, 09:51 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Build a doubler and save yourself $2K.
what doubler and will it be as strong as the atlas? strength is what im going for here. most wheeling trips are a minimum 3 hour drive and i dont want to break every time i go out.
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Old 04-13-2016, 09:53 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Atlas. Save money by going spools or welded if you have to. Low gears help, and throw it in front-only to steer if it pushes. Sticky tires suggest trailer rig to me.
i plan on welding/spool the rear. the front ill spool. i have the 2.75 psc dual ended ram steering kit so steering ability isnt an issue. im not worried about being able to disengage a front locker as of now. definite trailer rig.
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Old 04-13-2016, 10:52 AM   #6 (permalink)
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what doubler and will it be as strong as the atlas? strength is what im going for here. most wheeling trips are a minimum 3 hour drive and i dont want to break every time i go out.
I've only ever seen 1 NP231/D300 doubler (the doubler I mentioned) broken and that was on here- vettboy's. I think his ended up being more of a "freak" accident.

Will it be as strong as an atlas? No, but packaging, price, and weight-wise it's got the atlas beat. Plus the 4.0 doesn't make enough power to tear up the D300 unless it's wildly neglected.

The NP231/D300 doubler is what I'll be building for my XJ, which will be driven to the trails 6-8 hours away. So I'm building a rig with the same concepts of "shit can't break or I'm fawked" mentality as you.
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Old 04-13-2016, 01:23 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I run a dd machine billet box 231/205 doubler. The 205 is way overkill, but i didn't want to worry about popping outputs. For packaging and simplicity I wish I went atlas. But then again my doubler cost me $800 total for the doubler kit and cases.
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Old 04-13-2016, 01:34 PM   #8 (permalink)
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dd machine is impossible to get ahold of. i dont think he's making them anymore actually. tried that and afer not being able to contact him theres no way im ordering anything from him.
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Old 04-13-2016, 02:09 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Yes you NEED lower t-case gearing than stock.

Atlas will be very strong for your application, its not over kill it is exactly what it was designed for. The 4 speed 5.44:1 is what you should get, it will bolt in pretty easily.

A NP231 to d300 will fit well but I think it is too weak, the D300 will require $$ to make it survive, upgraded D300s track cases (under 4.0L Aw4 power). A N231 205 doubler will be cheap and reliable but it will not be easy to mount, trans tunnel and seat mounts will need to be relocated to fit. The 1979 Dodge 203 (23 spline) to Ford 205 is the strongest doubler option but the 203 leaves you no hope of keeping any of the OEM trans tunnel or seat mounts. I also dont think 4:1 would be enough low behind the little 4.0L.

The atlas is one of those pay to save time options.
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Old 04-13-2016, 02:17 PM   #10 (permalink)
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After doing a little thinking the four-speed atlas maybe what I need because around here it's not all rocks there's some dirt hill climbs and stuff like that that needs a wheel speed I never thought about that before.

Having the two speed would only leave you high and a very low gear ratio and in the parks where there's a lot of dirt trails I wouldn't fare so well
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Old 04-13-2016, 07:57 PM   #11 (permalink)
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So in addition to my previous post I ran the stock 231 behind my 4.0 with 4.88's in the axles on 42" pitbulls for 2 seasons before I went to the doubler. It certainly wasn't ideal but it wasn't terrible either. Depends more on the kind of wheeling you do. Hill climbs and trail wheeling it was fine. Technical rock crawling it was difficult.

I'm on 39 red labels now and really considering going to a 2 speed 4:1 case instead of the doubler. Mostly for packaging but I've found the 5.4:1 low low is not necessary even in pretty technical crawling.

I'm also a big fan of running what you have to learn what you want. You can always run your current stock case and see how it works. Then upgrade once you figure out what you want.
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Old 04-14-2016, 07:59 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I run a dd machine billet box 231/205 doubler. The 205 is way overkill, but i didn't want to worry about popping outputs. For packaging and simplicity I wish I went atlas. But then again my doubler cost me $800 total for the doubler kit and cases.

I am guessing you ordered your box to bolt to AW4 and have a 205 bolt to the back? My D&D box has jeep pattern front and rear. It currently has a D20 bolted behind it, the 20 having a Jeep input conversion. I have considered trying to swap a 205 for the 20, but I can't find any info on adapting a 205 directly to anything Jeep.

I have an HD 32 spl output on the 20. There is no upgrade for the front 10 spline. I will probably run this and if/when I have problems I will just buy a 4.3:1 Atlas.
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Old 04-14-2016, 08:41 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Polishing a D300 is a waste of money.

I did the Ecobox/NP205 for poorboy points. Do it over? I'd probably just smash an Atlas in there and let the Visa do the work. Basically it would have saved me time, dicking around, buying random small parts, more dicking around, more time, more small parts.

Part of the reason I did not go Atlas is that I have the oddball 21 spline trans output.

Also, when you part the build out because you get divorced, go gay and buy a SxS, or get into stamp collecting or flower pressing or something, the Atlas is still worth decent coin when your homebrew doubler setup is generally not...
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Old 04-14-2016, 11:01 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Also, when you part the build out because you get divorced, go gay and buy a SxS, or get into stamp collecting or flower pressing or something, the Atlas is still worth decent coin when your homebrew doubler setup is generally not...
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Old 04-14-2016, 12:36 PM   #15 (permalink)
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i guess at this point its figuring out what gear ratio to go with on the atlas and 2 or 4 speed.
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Old 04-14-2016, 01:19 PM   #16 (permalink)
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To me it seems silly to spend the $3500for an atlas 4spd just to get the 5.44 when you can do an eco box to a ford 205. For ~$1k. I doubt you will ever have any issues with it in an XJ.

Only reason I see going 4spd atlas is if you want 200:1+
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Old 04-14-2016, 01:28 PM   #17 (permalink)
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got my 2spd atlas 4.3:1 for $2000 delivered to my door by some good seller of the pirate 4 sale section. even came with a th400, adapter, clock ring and all

can't beat the value of a used atlas
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Old 04-14-2016, 01:40 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Only reason I see going 4spd atlas is if you want 200:1+
Maybe. Also useful if you snow wheel and need a higher low range, then use the pile for something else in the summer and need a lower low range. It is actually one of the reasons I went with the setup I have, the 2.72:1 of the doubler seems to be fairly ideal in the snow with an XJ (IMHO), but I have a 5.4ish option in low low (and lots of levers) for the show 'n shine. Just ordering up a 4:1 or so tcase doesn't work as well for that.
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Old 04-14-2016, 01:54 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Maybe. Also useful if you snow wheel and need a higher low range, then use the pile for something else in the summer and need a lower low range. It is actually one of the reasons I went with the setup I have, the 2.72:1 of the doubler seems to be fairly ideal in the snow with an XJ (IMHO), but I have a 5.4ish option in low low (and lots of levers) for the show 'n shine. Just ordering up a 4:1 or so tcase doesn't work as well for that.
Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of a doubler. I'd vote doubler over single low gears for almost any wheeler out there.

I was referring to buying a 2.0/2.7 atlas when you can just do a planetary doubler and 205. Especially in a trail rig like an XJ. If you are really worried about the ~60 lb difference, you shouldn't be building an XJ
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Old 04-14-2016, 02:07 PM   #20 (permalink)
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atlas t case. should i or should i not?

It's too late now because it is all put together but I almost would like a four speed Atlas or even a 231 doubler just to lengthen the front driveshaft.

I have 4.3 two speed and AW-4, 4.88s, 35s and in my limited use have never felt it was too low.
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Old 04-14-2016, 02:30 PM   #21 (permalink)
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It's too late now because it is all put together but I almost would like a four speed Atlas or even a 231 doubler just to lengthen the front driveshaft.
With my EcoBox/NP205 and slightly adjusted wheelbase my front and rear driveshafts are close to the same length, I think one is 1.5" longer than the other. Which is nice for a fullbody trail rig, if I choose to have a spare shaft it could be made to fit either location. Reality is I will leave the spares in a pile on the garage floor, but that's neither here nor now.

What isn't nice is where the front driveshaft hits, and what has to be done about it, but that's pretty much how she goes.
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Old 04-16-2016, 07:07 AM   #22 (permalink)
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5.44 is not too low. Find harder trails
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Old 04-29-2016, 11:01 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Also, when you part the build out because you get divorced, go gay and buy a SxS, or get into stamp collecting or flower pressing or something, the Atlas is still worth decent coin when your homebrew doubler setup is generally not...
I have nothing useful to add other than this fucking making my day!!!
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Old 05-01-2016, 04:04 PM   #24 (permalink)
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A 231 with hd sye behind a 4.0 on lightweight 39-40 tires is a solid unit .Don't neglect the chain if it is slacked replace it ...make sure drive shafts do not bind and obviously skid plates that cover it . The 2:72 gearing is not the best in the big stuff but will do ok and works for pretty much all wheeling . An Atlas is a nice upgrade but there are other upgrades probably more important than the 231 to come first...I ran 40 boggers on it for 5 years the case is 8 years old the case never broke I swapped in an Atlas for the new build the chain is a bit slacked that's all ...The one way to turn a 231 into sh it is to install a Teralow the quality of the planetary gear set is Harbor freight compared to NP.
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Old 05-05-2016, 11:36 AM   #25 (permalink)
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The one way to turn a 231 into sh it is to install a Teralow the quality of the planetary gear set is Harbor freight compared to NP.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this. Teralow installation causes future spontaneous disassembly
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