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Old 10-16-2008, 12:52 PM   #1 (permalink)
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TOTM: Traction Bars

Welcome to the next contribution to the
The Official Pirate4x4.com Jeep Talk Bible

Topic of the Month Traction Bars
Show us your different traction bar setups to control your leafsprings.

This does not include other suspension link designs. You should be here to add tech post your results, keep the newbie type questions to a minimum.

Last edited by ashmanjeepXJ; 08-17-2009 at 09:26 PM.
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Old 12-08-2008, 10:10 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Possibly TOTW? Traction Bars?

I have been looking on NAXJA and here for XJ Traction bar pics... I have seen a few pics here and there... I like Timmy's design from way back (square tube)

I don't have any metal shops local that have access to ordering DOM easily (I have asked before and I'd need a 30ft stick or so for an order from my favourite supplier I am friends with)

-I want to mount something on the drivers side for relatively ease of installation, I know it won't fight torque to the passenger side, but does it have any other negatives mounting it on the drivers side?

-I would like to use square tube as it is easier for me to purchase... my supplier can get HREW but will I be able to find bungs for it? I haven't uncovered much info on here how that sizing works... I know I can get square bung's through suicidedoors.com

-Materials... I have no idea how thick one of these things should be... I thought about using 1/8" box tube and truss it appropriately, as well, try to make it a "v" shape rather then "y" shaped to help spread the load of the upper link/arm and not place stress on the middle of the traction bar. Thoughts on this?

-I want to run bushings at the axle end and a Johnny or Hiem at the frame mount with a shackle mounted in "tension". I like timmy's "sway shackle" but for simplicities sake I'll stick with what most people use. What I am debating about now is should I build a custom cross member to mount the traction bar or should I make an additional bolt on cross member behind the tcase? The longer the traction bar the better or?

If I build a custom cross member I will be incorporating my link mounts for future long arms...
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Old 12-08-2008, 11:03 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I went a different route than most people, and it works well... and it's cheap.
I used 1/4"wall 2.5" square, with round 3/8wall 2"DOM inside.
All that's needed for a joint is a simple bushing and solid bracket.











More on this, here.
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Old 12-08-2008, 11:16 AM   #4 (permalink)
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what about side load binding? This is something your design does not take into consideration, when you use a fixed bushing without a heim? A seen a lot of toyota guys run a setup like you posted but as the axle travels up and down do we not get very slight rear steer? I am assuming you hope the bushing will deflect enough of that movement not to rip the mount off?
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Old 12-08-2008, 11:23 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Then put a heim on it.
It's not like I just made this and haven't run it, I know it works.
Maybe it is taking a lot of deflection, but it works, and besides a few shots of wd40 before a run, it's maintenance free.
I've watched it to see how it's holding up and there are no isues at all.

Then again, I'm not running full-bodied either, so it won't see those kinds of side loads you might be thinking of.
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Old 12-08-2008, 11:30 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I do like the simplicity of it though, I think I may go the heim route to eliminate any possible binding on the front mount...I can't believe you spun the whole diff

I do like your concept however it might be a little too noisey for a daily driver (at this moment). Winter up here is also an issue in regards to corrosion so without some kind of boot your design wouldn't work that well for me

Looking at your pics, did you spin only one side of the diff or did you bust both plug welds?
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Old 12-08-2008, 11:39 AM   #7 (permalink)
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The tube that the TB is attatched to stayed solid, the spot welds in that side busted and the housing spun and wrapped the p/s spring.
I'm not getting a lot of noise out of it, but you're probably right about corrosion, and an old shock boot (remember those? ) would fix that.
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Old 12-08-2008, 11:59 AM   #8 (permalink)
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For front leafs I would do it this way to protect the main leaf.

Some of the old pics dont work.
https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=332171

Like this with bushings at both ends, no slot on the frame side, more vertical separation at the leaf spring center pin, and the closer to the leaf spring frame mount the better. It will make you leaf stiffer, half the leaf spring will have some binding making the other half do most of the spring work.
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Old 12-08-2008, 03:20 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Couple of links I have.

https://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=715483

https://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=672712

https://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=464319
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Old 12-08-2008, 03:58 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
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It's not like I just made this and haven't run it, I know it works.
I call BS!

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Old 12-08-2008, 04:31 PM   #11 (permalink)
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That's not axle wrap, Opie, that's the spring unloading.
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Old 12-08-2008, 06:37 PM   #12 (permalink)
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the slip and twist seems like the ideal way to go... it's just a matter of finding the right materials around here...

Ashman, I went through the link you posted, but HOW THE HELL can that not cause binding on the leaf?
As the leaf compresses, it moves further back correct? At least this is my understand of XJ leafs and the factory off set. So if that piece of steel is attached with no slip won't it be pushed and pulled? With enough vertical separation it could be possible without binding but how would I find that out?

Terry, so far you have the best design from the looks of it, and it's compact which is nice, I don't have much room to play with a properly placed shackle from the looks of things. Plus I might be able to mount this on the passenger side to help with torque steer
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Old 12-08-2008, 06:50 PM   #13 (permalink)
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how is that not axle wrap?
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Old 12-08-2008, 06:59 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Couple of links I have.
Some I have.

http://www.rockhardxj.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2523
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Old 12-08-2008, 07:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
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That's not axle wrap, Opie, that's the spring unloading.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XJperez View Post
how is that not axle wrap?
Im not saying it was, im saying that your traction bar works, and that it still flexes.

My traction bar:
4 Large RE joints, 2 at the axle, one welded to the cross member, and one at the end of the bar.

1.75x.120 main tube, 1.25x.120 upper and connector.

Something like 6"-7" of vertical separation at the axle, and the shackle is like 4.5" eye to eye (not sure on the measurements, but that is an approximate guess)

Used a shackle. virtually NO bind because the shackle allows it to move...

I wish the link were flatter, and higher mounted on the axle housing - the rear end stands up a little bit when I'm 'getting it' and I attribute that to the angle of the bar at ride height - but its not annoying enough to deal with...









Broke right in the middle, where looking back on it, is exactly where it should have broken...







used a 110 flux core welder to fix it -






haven't even taken it off to paint it, its still working just fine with the extra plate on the top and bottom...
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Old 12-08-2008, 07:53 PM   #16 (permalink)
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ranger, I like how you tucked your muffler out of the way... smart move... I may have to do something like that in the future... Do you think your bar is too short causing the steeper operating angle? Would it have been better to mount it to your skid/cross member? This is what I was planning...




Building a cross member like so, and attaching the bar on the back side of it, I realize it does hang down a little bit... I may try to improve on the guys design... to tuck stuff up and out of the way



I'd probably stuff it right where the link arms and cross member bolt together. Anything bad about that idea except for the fact that it's held in by 4 factory bolts
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Old 12-08-2008, 07:55 PM   #17 (permalink)
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how is that not axle wrap?
Because I don't get axle wrap.
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Old 12-08-2008, 08:14 PM   #18 (permalink)
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ranger, I like how you tucked your muffler out of the way... smart move... I may have to do something like that in the future... Do you think your bar is too short causing the steeper operating angle? Would it have been better to mount it to your skid/cross member?
Naw, then it'd be too long. I wish that Id done the shackle hanging down instead, and the long tube of the traction bar off the top of the traction bar for more ground clearance.

If my traction bar ended where the lower RE joint on the cross member is, and the shackle hung down it might work better...

the more I've worked with links in suspensions, the more I've come to notice the flatter the links are, the better the suspension works...
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Old 12-08-2008, 08:23 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Here is a one I posted on here a while back. Seems to have worked fine for me. I'm glad it's beefy because it's taken some abuse without failure. My biggest complaint is the ground clearance with the crossmember. I am re-doing my cage right now and planned to address the x-member.

https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...20#post7384320
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Old 12-08-2008, 09:16 PM   #20 (permalink)
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In the ideal world, where should the shackle be? Seems most put it behind the tcase output, and in front of the spring hanger.
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Old 12-08-2008, 10:08 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I did the slip n twist version... seems more logical to me

The steel I found fit together but it was a little snug. I turned the inner tube down a bit on the lathe and turned a grease spiral as well...

I wanted it to act as a driveshaft skid as well as a good non-binding functional anti-wrap bar... It has done all those duties very well for a couple years of beating now...

For your questions...
Material : ~.25" (it's a driveshaft skid)
Joints: I did all bushings
Mounting: Front is even with the t-case yoke (fixed, no shackle).

Note: It's a lot easier to package the front mount when there is no shackle.
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Old 12-09-2008, 04:52 AM   #22 (permalink)
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keepviper13, I have seen a few of your pics before when I was looking how to fix my front leaf spring hangers... what did you do for the top of the hanger? It looks like you don't have anymore floor

I like how you tied it into the subframe brace, looks beefy as hell!

As well your slip and twist looks very good... I like the machine work for the grease package. Nobody here gets any odd side loading that causes binding for their anti-wrap bar? I can't believe that...The more pics I see of the slip and twist the more I like it due to it's compactness. Are a lot of you guys running poly or rubber bushings, which would have more give obviously
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Old 12-09-2008, 05:52 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Nobody here gets any odd side loading that causes binding for their anti-wrap bar? I can't believe that...The more pics I see of the slip and twist the more I like it due to it's compactness. Are a lot of you guys running poly or rubber bushings, which would have more give obviously
Man, put down the keyboard and go wheeling.

Only way you'll get side loading is if yer leaf spring bushings are shot...the axle shouldn't be moving sideways at all...
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Old 12-09-2008, 06:01 AM   #24 (permalink)
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keepviper13, I have seen a few of your pics before when I was looking how to fix my front leaf spring hangers... what did you do for the top of the hanger? It looks like you don't have anymore floor
I like how you tied it into the subframe brace, looks beefy as hell!
Back when i started on this jeep I tackled the floor/subframe first... Floor was rusted out so I put all new metal in. I was young, inexperienced and I got the first thing that was cheap (nearly free). Gobs of 3/16th plate. Looking back it was WAY overkill and just started the fattening process of the pig. But it has made mounting some things over time pretty easy... ie.. the front mount for the anti wrap is just tabs coming off the bottom of the floor boxed in and gusseted.


Quote:
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Are a lot of you guys running poly or rubber bushings, which would have more give obviously
I think they were rubber, but can't say for sure.
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Old 12-09-2008, 06:12 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Man, put down the keyboard and go wheeling.

Only way you'll get side loading is if yer leaf spring bushings are shot...the axle shouldn't be moving sideways at all...
Hey now if you want to get technical look at our average post counts

I'm just asking questions so when shit hits the fan and I listened to everyone else I'll just blame you

Plus I don't wheel in the winter... have you ever cleaned frozen mud? Sucks the fart out of my ass, that's how shitty it is! Not to mention the ruts tardbang's leave now are what are are there for good in the spring.

I'll get out there, with my baby full body pos... I just want to build her right before she cracks apart
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