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Old 01-27-2017, 09:16 PM   #101 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RMKrawler View Post
that was actually what my idea was to combat tie rod roll. That said, going that route.. how do i figure correct throw for where i mount my ram axle side?

FWIW, I'm currently running a passenger drop (chevy) 44.

At rest, is there a good starting point as to how much ram will be extended? I have the basic surplus center ram.
Mock up the cylinder fully extended or retracted and knuckle against the stop, cycle the steering. Use delrin spacers inside the ram to limit over travel. Also check the pitman arm length since you are cycling. Another thing to look at is the steering gear position and pivot angle. A good time to calibrate those as well
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Old 01-28-2017, 04:48 AM   #102 (permalink)
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Mock up the cylinder fully extended or retracted and knuckle against the stop, cycle the steering. Use delrin spacers inside the ram to limit over travel. Also check the pitman arm length since you are cycling. Another thing to look at is the steering gear position and pivot angle. A good time to calibrate those as well
thanks for your help. looks as if i have a ton more to learn before slapping my hydro assist in..
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Old 01-28-2017, 08:43 AM   #103 (permalink)
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thanks for your help. looks as if i have a ton more to learn before slapping my hydro assist in..
I always suggest adding a threaded bung to one end of the ram for a little fine tuning adjustment, and do your measuring for ram fully exteneded. For ram limiting, I just cut a 1" chunk of tubing in half, tack it together around the end of the ram piston (so it can still slide on the piston), then crank steering whatever direction compresses the ram until you're right at your steering stops, butt the tube up against the cylinder and tack it to the piston. This gives you your limit on the compressed side, and the extended limit will just be fully extended. Then use your threaded bung to fine tune the max extension. Takes a LOT of the measuring and guesswork out.

As for ram causing tie rod roll, just mount the ram in the same plane as the tie rod (or as close to it as possible. You want the ram as close to parallel with the tie rod as possible, either behind, above, or below it.
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Old 01-29-2017, 03:52 AM   #104 (permalink)
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I always suggest adding a threaded bung to one end of the ram for a little fine tuning adjustment, and do your measuring for ram fully exteneded. For ram limiting, I just cut a 1" chunk of tubing in half, tack it together around the end of the ram piston (so it can still slide on the piston), then crank steering whatever direction compresses the ram until you're right at your steering stops, butt the tube up against the cylinder and tack it to the piston. This gives you your limit on the compressed side, and the extended limit will just be fully extended. Then use your threaded bung to fine tune the max extension. Takes a LOT of the measuring and guesswork out.

As for ram causing tie rod roll, just mount the ram in the same plane as the tie rod (or as close to it as possible. You want the ram as close to parallel with the tie rod as possible, either behind, above, or below it.
pardon my ignorance, but i'm having a hard time picturing this. Do you mean cutting an end off of the ram to weld a bung on so i can adjust it with a heim?

i decided to use my steering arm for the ram end. makes the most sense to me in my application.
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Old 02-03-2017, 03:23 PM   #105 (permalink)
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I've noticed in the 4500 series trucks they are starting to go to a hybrid assist/full hydro setup using a non-power steering box, double ended ram, and a servo to send the fluid to the ram. I'm wondering if there would be a way to do this effectively with the steering box itself still sending fluid to the DE ram. Or if not, what non-power steering box would fit well in an XJ. I just really like the simplicity at the axle of only having a DE ram, draglink, and trac-bar instead of a ram, tie rod, and draglink all trying to fit with the trac-bar.
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Old 02-03-2017, 04:16 PM   #106 (permalink)
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Old 02-04-2017, 12:51 AM   #107 (permalink)
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I've noticed in the 4500 series trucks they are starting to go to a hybrid assist/full hydro setup using a non-power steering box, double ended ram, and a servo to send the fluid to the ram. I'm wondering if there would be a way to do this effectively with the steering box itself still sending fluid to the DE ram. Or if not, what non-power steering box would fit well in an XJ. I just really like the simplicity at the axle of only having a DE ram, draglink, and trac-bar instead of a ram, tie rod, and draglink all trying to fit with the trac-bar.
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shit. now that i got my ram dialed in, and ram ide mounted to my knuckle, this link comes up.

if i were to do this mod, couldn't i just cap the 2 hydro ports and the 2 stock ports on the steering box?
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Old 02-04-2017, 07:56 AM   #108 (permalink)
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shit. now that i got my ram dialed in, and ram ide mounted to my knuckle, this link comes up.

if i were to do this mod, couldn't i just cap the 2 hydro ports and the 2 stock ports on the steering box?
I've barely been following this thread. I know gtxracer is doing something like this in hardcore.
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Old 02-04-2017, 01:19 PM   #109 (permalink)
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In the link rangerrod posted they modified a power steering box to become a manual box, they did it like that for because they had a quicker turn box than what was available in a manual gearbox for a Scout. He actually mentions the off the shelf manual steering box for the XJ/YJ/TJ crowd.

Here is a link to a guy that got a kit from PSC and uses a manual gearbox. I like his setup because the more compact box allowed him to put the servo directly in front of it and basically retain his steering shaft.
https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gener...ll-4573-a.html

And here is a link to a really old thread where willyswanter used his OE box to run the double ended ram
https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gener...ll-4573-a.html

Also, in the thread I posted where the guy got a kit from PSC there is another guy who links a thread where EMF ports their steering boxes differently than normal for a hydro-assist setup and uses it to run the double ended ram.

Despite there being evidences of kits from both PSC and EMF I can't find them on either of their sites.
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Old 02-09-2017, 01:07 PM   #110 (permalink)
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Quick Question....

On my XJ HP60 I'm running a stock xj box drilled/tapped, new PS pump non modded, stock xj pully, Surplus Center's 1.5x8x1 Ram and 1/4"x36 hoses....at highway speeds i'm getting a slower slightly delayed steering response....similar to a full hydro response.

So thinking I have a "flow" issue, should I:

1) Replace the 1/4 x 36" hoses for 3/8"
2) Drill out the pump to 3/16"
3) Get a 1.5x8x.750 ram
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Old 02-11-2017, 06:27 AM   #111 (permalink)
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i finally cycled mine, and drove it out of the shop today. Im losing MAJOR fluid out the front cap. Did i rebuild my box wrong whereas the steering piston is over esxtending and pushing out the C clip and trying to push the cap off? Or is that possible? did i just screw up putting the box back together?
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Old 02-11-2017, 11:18 AM   #112 (permalink)
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Did you get the o-ring back on the cap right? I pinched mine once messing it up.
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Old 02-15-2017, 07:59 PM   #113 (permalink)
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Did you get the o-ring back on the cap right? I pinched mine once messing it up.

probably didnt. I can definitely see the circlip partially hanging onto the end of the steering box. i fucked up. gotta learn somehow i guess. lol
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Old 04-12-2017, 09:40 AM   #114 (permalink)
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Did alot of reading about hydro assist and am ready to order up the parts. It seem some use 3/8 hose and some 1/4 hose. What is the better choice?
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Old 04-12-2017, 09:56 AM   #115 (permalink)
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here it my set-up.



currently switching to a Dakota steering box. all -6 lines.

its an EMF 2" DE ram with a 1.25" shaft.
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:15 PM   #116 (permalink)
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Did alot of reading about hydro assist and am ready to order up the parts. It seem some use 3/8 hose and some 1/4 hose. What is the better choice?
3/8n, 1/4in will restrict flow so it would be slower.
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Old 04-12-2017, 06:20 PM   #117 (permalink)
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here it my set-up.


currently switching to a Dakota steering box. all -6 lines.

its an EMF 2" DE ram with a 1.25" shaft.
So you're currently using the stock Saginaw box to push the fluid through the DE Ram? How is that working out? What is the reason for switching to a Dakota steering box? Is that one a larger piston 3 turn box like the Durango one?
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Old 04-12-2017, 09:20 PM   #118 (permalink)
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So you're currently using the stock Saginaw box to push the fluid through the DE Ram? How is that working out? What is the reason for switching to a Dakota steering box? Is that one a larger piston 3 turn box like the Durango one?
it works the same as a Single ended ram except your reservoir fluid level doesn't change as you cycle the ram.

i'm switching to a durango/dakota box because my factory saginaw box was leaking BAD.
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:16 AM   #119 (permalink)
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Awesome, thanks for the info.
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Old 12-31-2017, 07:12 PM   #120 (permalink)
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I am trying to rework the steering on my Jeep to accept hydro assist. I am told the internal steering box stops, ram, and knuckle stops should all stop at the same time.

I initially set up my steering with a 6.5 inch pitman, and 6.5 inch knuckle length (ball joint to drag link). I did this to speed up the steering, and it worked great until it didn't, and I twisted off a sector shaft.

Setting the ram travel to the knuckle travel is the easy part. To have the steering box travel match the knuckle/ram travel I'm going to have to shorten the pitman arm considerably. About an inch. I'd like to keep the length if I can, and I don't have the time really to figure out internal box spacers.

Question is, What happens to pressure/bleed off/whatever if the ram bottoms but but the steering box still has more to go? In my head, I can't see how the box knows whether is sees internal stops, or uses the ram as it's steering stop.

Thanks for any enlightenment.
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Old 12-31-2017, 07:37 PM   #121 (permalink)
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Iím running my ram and knuckle stops the same. Steering box is shy of full lock. Thatís the way Iíve read to set it up.
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Old 12-31-2017, 07:49 PM   #122 (permalink)
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Iím running my ram and knuckle stops the same. Steering box is shy of full lock. Thatís the way Iíve read to set it up.
Yeah, That's the easy solution right now, prepping for KOH. Just chasing this year though.

I know Howe is pretty adamant about setting the box stops the same. I just don't know the function of the internal stops, if there is an internal pressure blow off, that's different than externally limiting them.

I'm pretty sure my stock TJ setup didn't care, it wasn't something we thought about. Just not seeing how adding a ram would affect that...
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Old 12-31-2017, 07:53 PM   #123 (permalink)
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Yeah, That's the easy solution right now, prepping for KOH. Just chasing this year though.

I know Howe is pretty adamant about setting the box stops the same. I just don't know the function of the internal stops, if there is an internal pressure blow off, that's different than externally limiting them.

I'm pretty sure my stock TJ setup didn't care, it wasn't something we thought about. Just not seeing how adding a ram would affect that...
Yeah I donít know why it would care. Only thing I can think about is steering will speed up a bit with the longer pitman arm and it will have to move fluid quicker through the box? But Iím hydro assist stupid. My shit works though.

And update your build thread then.
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Old 12-31-2017, 07:59 PM   #124 (permalink)
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And update your build thread then.
Photobucket fucked it up. I've swapped in an LQ4/TH400, reworked the front end, and larger radiator. I'll figure out how sometime...
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Old 01-01-2018, 04:36 PM   #125 (permalink)
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You know, this will potentially tick some people off to hear, and I really don't give a fuck...but my ram out-travels my box a smidge and has for a REALLY long time. I can pretty easily tell when my box is done moving and I just don't be a dick and turn the wheel anymore. Works for me and has for years with zero problems
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