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Old 01-18-2019, 11:21 PM   #1126 (permalink)
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Little shit takes FOREVER.

Dash is wired. All of it. Fans are controlled by PCM now with a SPDT rocker switch for override. Need to design and 3D printed two adapters for the dash to mount my switch panel and iPad. Slowly put things together that were lingering like misc nuts and bolts, the cowl, and mounting the pcm and fuse block.

Went with Tom Woods for the shafts. Ordered on a Tuesday and had them here today, Friday. They were very helpful and made them exactly to order. No issues at all. Highly recommend them. I havenít used them in 10 years and theyíre still great to work with. I went with 1310 CVs and 1350 slip yoke at the axle end, all Spicer non servicables. Iím very happy with them and the whole experience.

Had a small interference issue with the bellhousing. I donít know how this didnít come up before. Perhaps the suspension settled slightly and I didnít notice. Either way, I had to chop a little off the bellhousing where the bottom cover bolts up. Lost one of the bottom cover bolt holes. Oh well. Small sacrifice for a one piece shaft. Picture makes it look much worse than it actually is. All good now. Front has 5Ē uptravel in these pics since I lowered everything down. I will run it at 5Ē and see if I can bottom it out as hard as the rear.

Reusing the previous front shock crossmember but this time putting in some stubby tube connectors that interlock. Huge time saver and this will protect the front end if I run out of talent.

Tomorrow Iím designing the new rear axle upper link mounts and cutting them on the CNC plasma. Should be fairly easy but Iíve said that before!
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Old 01-21-2019, 12:00 PM   #1127 (permalink)
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More progress from this weekend. I didn't get done as much as I wanted on the Jeep but I did get the majority of the remaining hard work done. Rear axle upper control arm mounts were about 4" tall (first picture).

I messed up 4 times before putting the entire rear link bridge in CAD. I didn't make this bridge, just hacked the top off a few years ago. Each face is not square to the other. I was also angling the mounts 10 degrees by pointing them to the UCA mount on the frame. Add to that the 45 degree and 59 degree angled sides on the link bridge and you have a very complicated setup. After the 4th fawk up I put down everything and spent 2 hours just reverse engineering this damn bridge. Designed it all in Solidworks, got it setup for the cnc plasma, and double checked everything twice. Cut it out and VOILA! Fit perfectly. It looks easy to do but NONE of these corners are 90į and the links may have to be shortened an inch If so, I may just say fawk it and order some 7075 because these have already been sleeved once. WOD has these links for $135 each and that's enticing

Still have to notch the lower part of the frame for the links, fab the new front shock crossmember, and straighten the front axle tube slightly. If I get time I'll also move the 2.0 Fox bumps to the rear. Still need to swap the steering pump on the Raptor and do maintenance on the trailer. It's not as tight as the last two years but still have some work to do.
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Old 01-21-2019, 02:07 PM   #1128 (permalink)
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How much vertical separation do you have in the rear links now between uppers and lowers? What are the angles at ride height in relation to the horizontal axis from front to back?
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Old 01-21-2019, 04:55 PM   #1129 (permalink)
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How much vertical separation do you have in the rear links now between uppers and lowers? What are the angles at ride height in relation to the horizontal axis from front to back?
5.5" off centerline of axle. Lower link mounts are roughly 2.5" below axle centerline, so that makes about 8" separation at the axle now.

I have the 4link calc numbers at home, I'll get them posted up for all to see the difference. I was surprised.
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Old 01-21-2019, 09:46 PM   #1130 (permalink)
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Here's the new 4 link calc numbers. First is before, second is after. I'll double check these but should be correct. I believe I lowered the frame side to the lowest bolt hole. It was in the middle before.

Rear links are 1" too long and I plug welded the extensions I put in. Awesome.

Forgot to upload the Solidworks CAD snip of what I had to make to get this to work.
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Old 01-22-2019, 12:14 AM   #1131 (permalink)
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Nice work man, that ended up being a ton of work, but you'll be happy you went through all the headache. You are getting it all dialed in exactly like you want.

And thanks for cutting those plates for me Saturday. I didn't end up working on it Saturday night because the baby was sleeping way too light for me to whack stuff with the hammer, but the size of the plates is perfect, and I tried moving some metal with the hammer on Sunday and I think it's gonna be easy peasy when I get into it again Thursday night.
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Old 01-22-2019, 10:02 AM   #1132 (permalink)
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Nice work man, that ended up being a ton of work, but you'll be happy you went through all the headache. You are getting it all dialed in exactly like you want.

And thanks for cutting those plates for me Saturday. I didn't end up working on it Saturday night because the baby was sleeping way too light for me to whack stuff with the hammer, but the size of the plates is perfect, and I tried moving some metal with the hammer on Sunday and I think it's gonna be easy peasy when I get into it again Thursday night.
Thanks Adam! I'm glad I'm ahead of schedule because the last few items are taking twice as long as planned. I nicked one of the brake lines as I was grinding off the old brackets so I get to replace that and bleed the brakes now too. Yay me!

No problem, that's why I bought the cnc table We should get your baby some ear muffs hahaha
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Old 01-22-2019, 10:20 AM   #1133 (permalink)
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I see you lost an inch of RS height. How high is it compared to the front? Still above it?
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Old 01-22-2019, 10:24 AM   #1134 (permalink)
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I see you lost an inch of RS height. How high is it compared to the front? Still above it?
RS height? Sorry, just not following the acronym. Do you mean roll center?

I'm playing with the calculator now. I think the ones I posted were old and had some guesses in there. I have a few different scenarios I'm about to post. Much different than original.
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Old 01-22-2019, 10:26 AM   #1135 (permalink)
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Oops, yes, roll center height.
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Old 01-22-2019, 10:46 AM   #1136 (permalink)
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Oops, yes, roll center height.
Ahhh gotcha.

Here's updated geometry. First is old geometry before cutting the link bridge off. Second is the new geometry with the lower bolt home used for the uppers on the frame. Third is middle bolt hole, Fourth is upper bolt hole.

I will be trying both the middle and lower bolt holes to see which feels best. The middle bolt hole will probably feel good on the street but will squat a bit more than the lower hole. The lower hole is the most similar to my previous setup. I have lowered the Jeep considerably in this whole process so that helps the geometry significantly and I'm excited to see what this rig will do.

Don't mind the dark grey theme, it's meant to be easier on the eyes. My entire Windows theme is that color and it's reduced eye strain and headaches to almost none after a 8-10 hour day.
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Old 01-22-2019, 01:22 PM   #1137 (permalink)
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Regarding CG height # and thinking it seems low @ 24.5". Is the general rule of thumb the upper bolt on the bellhousing, bottom bolt on bellhousing, crank centerline, or something else?
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Old 01-22-2019, 01:58 PM   #1138 (permalink)
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Looking good man! I tell you what, you get spoiled with CNC plasma cut brackets. Its painful for me to make tabs manually now haha


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Old 01-22-2019, 02:22 PM   #1139 (permalink)
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Regarding CG height # and thinking it seems low @ 24.5". Is the general rule of thumb the upper bolt on the bellhousing, bottom bolt on bellhousing, crank centerline, or something else?
Thanks for bumping this to the thread. You may be right, seeing as how others use between 30 and 40 inches based on the vehicle ride height. I think I'm a bit low and low 30s is more accurate. This essentially lowers the AS. I tested it in the calculator and it lowers the AS about 10-20 points.

More threads on how to calculate vehicle CG height (center of gravity) here:

https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/newb...r-gravity.html

https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/jeep...avity-how.html

https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/jeep...clearance.html

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Looking good man! I tell you what, you get spoiled with CNC plasma cut brackets. Its painful for me to make tabs manually now haha


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Thank you sir! I do feel spoiled and I love it. Let me know if you need some tabs cut I have 1/8, 3/16, and 1/4 A36 sitting here.
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Old 01-22-2019, 02:40 PM   #1140 (permalink)
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Thank you sir! I do feel spoiled and I love it. Let me know if you need some tabs cut I have 1/8, 3/16, and 1/4 A36 sitting here.

I have a buddy a work with a table and idk what Iíd do without him now! And Iíll let you know if I ever do.



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Old 01-22-2019, 05:36 PM   #1141 (permalink)
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I have a buddy a work with a table and idk what Iíd do without him now! And Iíll let you know if I ever do.



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I've been following your build! Keep at it, those chassis are badass.
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Old 01-22-2019, 11:17 PM   #1142 (permalink)
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Same question again. What is your front roll center height? Is it still lower than the rear?

All else equal, it should take more spring rate to get back to the same amount of body roll.

Interested to hear how it feels with less anti-squat.
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Old 01-23-2019, 09:22 AM   #1143 (permalink)
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Same question again. What is your front roll center height? Is it still lower than the rear?

All else equal, it should take more spring rate to get back to the same amount of body roll.

Interested to hear how it feels with less anti-squat.
What are you saying? That I have a hard time listening?

Not sure on the front RC, but I can get the measurements. I've been meaning to get all of it in the calculator and see exactly where the number end up.

Yes, it would take more spring rate but these sway bars are pretty stiff compared to Anti Rock or TK1.

Shortened the upper arms last night. They're ugly as fawk so WOD will be getting a call from me when I get back from KOH. I'll probably replace all the links except the rear lowers. Front lowers are too short even though they're chromo and stout. Uppers are all sleeved and need to be replaced.

Taking a break tonight then I'll be on the Jeep for 3 days straight.
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Old 01-23-2019, 02:07 PM   #1144 (permalink)
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What are you saying? That I have a hard time listening?

Not sure on the front RC, but I can get the measurements. I've been meaning to get all of it in the calculator and see exactly where the number end up.

Yes, it would take more spring rate but these sway bars are pretty stiff compared to Anti Rock or TK1.

Shortened the upper arms last night. They're ugly as fawk so WOD will be getting a call from me when I get back from KOH. I'll probably replace all the links except the rear lowers. Front lowers are too short even though they're chromo and stout. Uppers are all sleeved and need to be replaced.

Taking a break tonight then I'll be on the Jeep for 3 days straight.

What I meant was if nothing else changes (spring rates, bar rate) lowering the RC will allow more lateral load transfer. So even if you're running bigger bars already, they're going to see bigger loads. Like I said, I'm looking forward to hearing the before/after seat of the pants report. That's all that really matters. It's great to hear real world experiences of whether one can even feel lowering a RC an inch or so.
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Old 01-29-2019, 11:55 AM   #1145 (permalink)
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Big update.

Jeep is pretty much ready to go. Need to replace one brake line that I don't think I flared correctly. Whoops. (first pic)

Moved the 2.0x3" Fox bumps to the rear with some bump pads (second pic). Frame will get hacked off after KOH so not worried about them. They look decent. Crossmember for front shocks is in, I'll have to add those clamps later like I always keep saying. Everything under the hood looks much better than before but I want to do a big clean up after KOH to get rid of extra 4.0 harness pigtails and a few other tidbits to clean up things. (third pic)

Put in a temporary seal for the front long side of the Eaton 60. It uses two D60 seals but they wore grooves in the shaft. Still confused by this. I'll have to tear down the front end later and see WTF happened. (fourth pic)

Full bump right now (last pic) but will go up another 3" once the frame is cut. I'm out of travel. Sway bars just kiss the frame at full bump. Links hit frame at full bump. No point in notching frame right now due to the sway bars and other stuff in the way. Ride height right now is 5" uptravel but will be raising it to 7" at KOH.

More in next post for more pics...
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Old 01-29-2019, 12:00 PM   #1146 (permalink)
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This was as of Friday. Still had a lot to do but had the bumps mounted and a few of the little things wrapped up. Swapped the power steering pump Friday night on the Raptor. Girlfriend's birthday was Saturday also so we took the Raptor out to the forest and did a little target practice and tested the steering. Now running Amsoil instead of the Mercon crap that Ford puts in. It has never felt better!
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Old 01-29-2019, 12:30 PM   #1147 (permalink)
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Few more pics of the Raptor. I love this truck and I find myself wanting to do more offroading with it. It's a pretty stout platform so I see myself making this more of a trail running for bigger roads and open terrain. After the Jeep is squared away this is getting all my attention.

Measured the Jeep windshield last night. 71" to top of the frame where it spans across to the other side. Girlfriend's stock TJ.....68" 3" higher on tons and 37's with 5" uptravel. Rear will have 7" at same height when it's backhalved. Not too bad!

Made a few of the link kits previously mentioned. Just a half dozen so far but they've come out very good.
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Old 01-29-2019, 12:34 PM   #1148 (permalink)
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To get caught up to today, we wrapped the doors and assembled the dash. Very small list for the next few days. It needs a wash but overall it's prepped and ready. Of course there's always things to tidy up or fine tune but she'll do fine for KOH week. I only test drove it down the block so hoping to drive it a bit more today or tomorrow to know how it does.
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Old 01-29-2019, 01:13 PM   #1149 (permalink)
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Sounds like you're all set to have a blast.

How the hell can a seal remove metal? Dirt getting down to it?

Are those hood pins the AutoFab ones? If they are, what do you think of them?

You friends need to apply peer pressure until you cave and rip the stock dash and wiring out. Everything on your Jeep is so well thought out and executed...........................except for that.
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Old 01-29-2019, 05:03 PM   #1150 (permalink)
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Sounds like you're all set to have a blast.

How the hell can a seal remove metal? Dirt getting down to it?

Are those hood pins the AutoFab ones? If they are, what do you think of them?

You friends need to apply peer pressure until you cave and rip the stock dash and wiring out. Everything on your Jeep is so well thought out and executed...........................except for that.


It looks better when all the covers are back on. I actually like the look but the vents are not functional. I'd really like to design a new one and fab something out of aluminum but still don't have a way to weld the aluminum. My Hobart 187 was the only 220 welder from Hobart that doesn't adapt well to a spool gun. If anyone has an idea there let me know! If I get the time I'd design and make a very simple dash with center console. It's on the list but only if I get time. Plenty of other shit to fix I did rip out the extra stock wiring and I actually like the factory fuse block setup under the dash. It's the PDC that's an eyesore. If I get time I'll rip it out but that'll likely be next winter at best.

Hood pins are the Daystar kit here and I like them a lot:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

yeah, no idea on the seal. Big giant WTF. Both of them are doing it. The shaft is tight in there and takes some finesse and axial push to get it in the carrier but nothing crazy. All done by hand. So not sure what's going on. Hopefully someone with more experience can chime in. @AlxJ64 is probably the smartest axle guy I know.
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