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Old 06-29-2019, 08:43 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Is the 14 bolt not a lot of work and adds so much weight when running 35's?

Last edited by thedirtman; 06-29-2019 at 08:56 AM.
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Old 06-29-2019, 08:58 AM   #27 (permalink)
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I see they changed the air bump rules and you can't use coil overs.
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Old 06-29-2019, 09:30 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Is the 14 bolt not a lot of work and adds so much weight when running 35's?


In a perfect world itd have fabed 9s front and rear with a bunch of trick parts...

In my world 14 bolt was dirt cheap, 69 WMS matches my front, 8 x 6.5 matches my front, shaved it has the same clearance as a Dana 44, and its super strong. I have 37s for rec wheeling and this combo should be able to take anything I may want to throw at it in the future.


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Old 06-29-2019, 09:38 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I see they changed the air bump rules and you can't use coil overs.


Yep. I bought stinger bumps right before I saw the new rule book. Ended up having to sell those and hunt down some air bumps. Not being able to run coilovers really complicates things, but I guess thats the point of the class. Finding coils that fit the bill is a PITA. So far the Curry 4 coils seem to be the best fit, but John Currie told me they would probably be a little stiff and that I might end up having to get a custom set made. Im guessing my LJ will probably weigh a little more than the LJ Currie used to race, so hopefully they work out.


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Old 06-29-2019, 10:35 AM   #30 (permalink)
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I'd bet you'll be fine with the Currie coils, I've got them front and rear and my TJ gets after it pretty good. If I had bumps and 2.5s in the front itd be real fast. Do the rules allow you to run IBP's or no, those would be tits.

A friend of a friend had custom coilovers springs made for his powerwagon through H&R I think, might be worth a shot if that's the route you have to take

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Old 06-29-2019, 10:57 AM   #31 (permalink)
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I'd bet you'll be fine with the Currie coils, I've got them front and rear and my TJ gets after it pretty good. If I had bumps and 2.5s in the front itd be real fast. Do the rules allow you to run IBP's or no, those would be tits.

A friend of a friend had custom coilovers springs made for his powerwagon through H&R I think, might be worth a shot if that's the route you have to take


No bypasses allowed. I heard Betts spring will do custom coils as well. Hopefully I wont need them.


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Old 06-29-2019, 01:52 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I'd bet you'll be fine with the Currie coils, I've got them front and rear and my TJ gets after it pretty good. If I had bumps and 2.5s in the front itd be real fast. Do the rules allow you to run IBP's or no, those would be tits.

A friend of a friend had custom coilovers springs made for his powerwagon through H&R I think, might be worth a shot if that's the route you have to take


No bypasses allowed. I heard Betts spring will do custom coils as well. Hopefully I won’t need them.


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Haven't heard of them before, I'll have to look into them. I'm pretty sure the curries are about the best you can do in the space constraints and are slightly progressive I think. But if you're allowed to use custom cool buckets there might be room for improvement with custom springs
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Old 07-01-2019, 08:57 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I think I figured out how to package the 2.5 x 14 shocks and still get 7 up travel in the front.

I had to ditch the Artec mounts. Pull out the CAD


And the plasma table. Lol


But I think I found a solution. Ill have to use 1/2 cap screw instead of regular bolts for the bottom shock bolts, but that shouldnt be an issue. The driver side will be a little harder to package, since theres less tube.






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Old 07-02-2019, 10:49 AM   #34 (permalink)
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I think I figured out how to package the 2.5” x 14” shocks and still get 7” up travel in the front.

I had to ditch the Artec mounts. Pull out the CAD


And the plasma table. Lol


But I think I found a solution. I’ll have to use 1/2” cap screw instead of regular bolts for the bottom shock bolts, but that shouldn’t be an issue. The driver side will be a little harder to package, since there’s less tube.






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Looks good, I like that idea. I'm sure you know already, but I'd make the shocks as easy as possible to remove and install as possible for tuning purposes. When I redo my shock mounts next go around I'm going to make the lower mount holes slotted to try and decrease the time
spent dicking around with a gantry and chain hoist to get the bolt holes to line up
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Old 07-03-2019, 09:35 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Got off work a little early and had a chance to fab up the driver side lower link and shock mount. It wasnt as bad as I had anticipated. One extra bend and it clears.




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Old 07-06-2019, 03:32 PM   #36 (permalink)
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You may also want to look at Teraflex. They make a 5" lift, single rate spring. I'm building a TJ that is headed towards a 4500 car, but not sure it will actually go all the way - so it's little steps. For the time being, I am going to be running coils on the rear w/ Fox smoothies. In talking to my shock tuner (Ryan @ AccuTune) he suggested going with a single rate spring as he felt most of the dual rate springs are really too stiff. I bought a pair of the Teraflex ones to try out. Tera didn't have the compressed height, but I believe the wire was around 0.625", but fewer turns. I'll try and get some measurements tonight to estimate the compressed height and report back.
Sorry for the delay on following up on this, but I did take a few measurements on the Teraflex 5" coils. The wire is 0.650" diameter and is 5 full turns with the upper and lower coils a smaller diameter so they will collapse into each other as the spring collapses so basically it looks like the compressed length would be ~ 3.25". Free length of the coil is 16". Teraflex part 1844500. Just got them installed today, so no experience on them yet.
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Old 07-06-2019, 09:10 PM   #37 (permalink)
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You may also want to look at Teraflex. They make a 5" lift, single rate spring. I'm building a TJ that is headed towards a 4500 car, but not sure it will actually go all the way - so it's little steps. For the time being, I am going to be running coils on the rear w/ Fox smoothies. In talking to my shock tuner (Ryan @ AccuTune) he suggested going with a single rate spring as he felt most of the dual rate springs are really too stiff. I bought a pair of the Teraflex ones to try out. Tera didn't have the compressed height, but I believe the wire was around 0.625", but fewer turns. I'll try and get some measurements tonight to estimate the compressed height and report back.
Sorry for the delay on following up on this, but I did take a few measurements on the Teraflex 5" coils. The wire is 0.650" diameter and is 5 full turns with the upper and lower coils a smaller diameter so they will collapse into each other as the spring collapses so basically it looks like the compressed length would be ~ 3.25". Free length of the coil is 16". Teraflex part 1844500. Just got them installed today, so no experience on them yet.
Good to know, I think the free length on the currie springs is 17.75" or 18.25" depending on if you get the 4" or 4.5" coils. I don't have one off to measure at the moment though

My old email with Marty when he was at Savvy said the TJ HD Rear springs have a free length of 18.25, and with a 690lb load on them a height of 13.5" if that helps at all.

The front springs I run are a CE-9132 Rev A with a free height of 22.6" and a loaded height of 15.75" with 825 lbs on it.

Pretty sure they're progressive though so not sure how much the loaded height helps

Do you have a picture or part number on those teraflex springs. Looking the 5" teraflex coils that pop up on Google it looks like 6, possibly 7 wraps

Last edited by trevlaw17; 07-06-2019 at 09:22 PM.
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Old 07-07-2019, 06:57 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Part number is in my post 1844500. Just to be clear these are rear springs. I will get a pic when I get back in the shop later. They are already installed, so it won't be as clear. They have five wraps which are at the full diameter, but then have an additional 3/4 to full wrap at each end of the spring that leads into the pig tail at the end. The OD of these last wraps is smaller than the ID of the five full size wraps, so as it compresses fully they will basically collapse completely into the 5 wrap stack on each end. Hope that makes sense.
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Old 07-07-2019, 07:18 AM   #39 (permalink)
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I have a spreadsheet at work with the numbers I got from Currie and others. Ill add the teraflex info and post it Monday.


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Old 07-07-2019, 12:03 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Here's a picture of the spring installed. The angle makes the sprng look crooked, but it's actually straight.

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Old 07-07-2019, 01:41 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Between family responsibilities, I was able to sneak into the garage and finish my rear spring pads and retainers. This should get me as high in the frame as possible without notching it.




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Old 07-08-2019, 10:36 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Heres the data Ive been able to gather on springs.

In the rear if coil bind was less than 5 I used 5, since thats full bump.

RockKrawler was very forthcoming with info in their springs and dont seems to be a bad option.



Metalcloak has awesome extended length, but because of the amount of coils they dont compress as far. It would also increase ride height and CG. But the worst part about Metalcloak is Metalcloak. They refuse to give any info in spring rates.



Teraflex is a single rate and seems to be the stiffest. They also seem to have the least travel.


Currie is my front runner right now. They seem to have softer rates and almost a full 14 of travel.



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Old 07-08-2019, 11:56 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Looks good. How'd you come up with 5" coil bind on the currie rear springs? In pretty sure it's closer to 4.375". I can throw my calipers on the the wire diameter at lunch today. I ran them with my old 14" emulsions and I don't think they unseated, maybe just barely if so

Edit: yeah they're right at .625" with 7 wraps, so 4.375" bind height

Last edited by trevlaw17; 07-08-2019 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 07-08-2019, 12:14 PM   #44 (permalink)
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5 is where the top of my 14 bolt hits the floor board.


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Old 07-08-2019, 12:50 PM   #45 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=Tyler76010;44512370]5” is where the top of my 14 bolt hits the floor board.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTEoh, gotcha. Set the bumps for 4.5" and it should take care of itself after a few good bumps lol
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Old 07-10-2019, 06:28 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Man handled the 14 bolt back under the Jeep after tacking in the spring perches. Ends up 4.5 at full bump. Thats using every bit of available space. At this point I dont think the 14 bolt is costing me any up-travel or ground clearance.






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Old 07-10-2019, 08:50 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Now that I have a better idea of where full bump and droop will be I took some better measurements for drive line angle. My goal was to use a non CV 1350 rear shaft. With the belly being 2 below the frame rails Im able to lift the motor mounts 2 before contacting the fire wall. This gives me an 8.3 degree drive line angle.

Drive shaft angle at ride height is 16 degrees. 16 - 8.3= 7.7 degrees at the pinion and output shaft.

Drive shaft at full droop is 25 degrees and I have to factor in 4.44 in pinion shift.
25 -8.3= 16.7 degrees at the output shaft.
25 - 8.3 + 4.44 = 21.14 at the pinion.

Im thinking I should be able to massage the yokes with a die grinder to get the couple extra degrees. Anybody have experience with this?


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Old 07-15-2019, 04:40 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Got a little time in the garage this weekend. I was able to mock up most of the steering all make sure all the geometry worked together. More importantly that all the parts could cram in at full bump.

The best way I could find to fit a long enough pitman to give 45-50 degrees of steering was to mount the heim on top of the pitman. Turns out I was able to modify the Camaro 7.25 pitman to work. In my configuration its about 6.5. Thats the drag link resting in its position. You can see the panhard behind that.


To get the draglink around the panhard I needed a bend. My 1.75 die would have too big of a radius, so I enlisted my helpers and borrowed their sand. Its not perfect but still way stronger than the 5/8 bolts that hold it. It should t see much stress with the DE ram.







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Old 07-24-2019, 09:08 PM   #49 (permalink)
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LJ Build

I had to scratch my idea for front axle side lower control arm and shock mounts. It ate the space needed for a good turning radius. I ended up ordering some 2.5 x 12 Kings. I was going to use the Artec frame side mounts to save some time, but they also didnt allow for the desired turning radius and were an inch lower than my skid. I ended up with a combination one piece upper and lower link mount on the passenger side. I have the drivers side cut out but not tacked up yet. This keeps the lowest point 2 below the frame rails and will have a tube running parallel with the tranny to form a subframe for the flat skid. I should end up with 45 degrees of steering. I though the mount looked heavy but its only 1/4 pound more than the Artec mounts.






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Old 07-24-2019, 09:44 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Also got my T case flip ring and cable shifters. Everything seems to fit well. Front drive shaft is a little tricky. I had to keep the lower link mount close to the frame to clear the offset of the 1990 Dana 60. Ill also need a two piece drive shaft with a really short first shaft with a double Cardan joint to correct the 8 degrees of driveline angle. My front links are the same length, so I wont have pinion plunge. Im hoping I can make the first shaft 10. The shorter the better. This will let me have enough shaft length to run the pinion at 0 degrees and give me as much caster as I can get without cutting and turning my knuckles.

Anybody have any experience making a double Cardan shaft that short?

Feel free to double check my logic in the front shaft angles.







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