1980 Jeep Wagoneer 360 ignition issues - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
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Old 01-09-2020, 10:43 PM   #1 (permalink)
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1980 Jeep Wagoneer 360 ignition issues

Hello, long time lurker and first time poster

I have a 1980 Jeep Wagoneer that is giving me headaches. I'm mechanically inclined so please spare me the bullshit but I cannot figure out this problem. Likely someone will have an easy solution I've overlooked. Here's the problem:

POS Wagoneer been sitting for about 30 years, purchased for body but upon inspection engine may be worthwhile. AMC 360 intact with all emissions shit installed.

Hooked-up battery and new lock/tumbler and... click. Thought engine may be seized so took all necessary actions including pulling plugs and putting diesel everywhere. Engine not seized and can turn over easily with wrench.

Hooked-up starter and nothing. Replaced solenoid x's 2, ignition switch, etc. Engine will only turn over with jumpers between positive battery and ignition post of solenoid (When key is off) or battery and starter post when key is 'Off.' When key is on, the only starter action is when I jumper between positive post and starter post, not ignition post.

I'm dumbfounded. Is it the neutral safety switch that is not allowing current between the solenoid and the starter? Relay? Fuse?

I have another Waggy that runs and hopeful in swapping bodies but if both engines are decent that changes the dynamics. Now I'm committed to figuring out just what the hell is wrong with this one. Spent too much time and money to walk away. Any help is much appreciated.

Also, with key-on I'm getting 7v on both the two posts of the solenoid. With everything else I've done, the ignition always provides 12V and starter may vary. Thoughts?

Thanks and take care.
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Old 01-09-2020, 10:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
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First time poster, should delete thread, and start over elsewhere.
Basic diagnosis isn't 'Hardcore Tech'
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Old 01-09-2020, 10:55 PM   #3 (permalink)
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While I appreciate your willingness to not reply and provide absolutely no advice, I do not appreciate your arrogance. If you want people to be part of this forum you should provide guidance. This site is very helpful, but also confusing for people not engaged in everyday and real-time posting. I'm looking for some assistance and if all you can offer is a suggestion to reassign to another category or delete due to arbitrary rules, you are not assisting those who are new in diagnosing Jeep issues. How about you offer some guidance instead? I'd be ashamed if I were your type of mechanic offering advice. Would that mean you would push people to the garage next door? I am also from the PNW and generally here people help each other. Take care.
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Old 01-09-2020, 11:03 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunkle05! View Post
While I appreciate your willingness to not reply and provide absolutely no advice, I do not appreciate your arrogance. If you want people to be part of this forum you should provide guidance. This site is very helpful, but also confusing for people not engaged in everyday and real-time posting. I'm looking for some assistance and if all you can offer is a suggestion to reassign to another category or delete due to arbitrary rules, you are not assisting those who are new in diagnosing Jeep issues. How about you offer some guidance instead? I'd be ashamed if I were your type of mechanic offering advice. Would that mean you would push people to the garage next door? I am also from the PNW and generally here people help each other. Take care.
Arrogance? bwahahaha
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Old 01-09-2020, 11:12 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Typical. Then what is my problem? Take your arrogance to a new level--diagnose. 12v at one side 12v , at another nothing, 6 vi in between, and no starter 'clicking.' I've already ran this by a bunch of seasoned mechanics and all are stumped. You got it?? Show it. You are reminding me of doctors I have to work with.. "It is because I say it is." Prove it. Or maybe we should move this to more a 'Basic Forum' where other, more qualified people can help. Ball is in your court.
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Old 01-10-2020, 01:18 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Yeah, not hardcore. That said, shit wire, or if you accidentally got a solenoid thatís doesnít ground through the bracket, that could be your issue.


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Old 01-10-2020, 03:59 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Ground is always a good place to start with weird electrical stuff....
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Old 01-10-2020, 07:34 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks, All. I have checked ground and specifically ran a ground wire direct from battery post to the solenoid. The leads on the battery are shiny and cables new. The most confusing part of this is the 6v at the I and S posts with key on/start. I've installed hundreds of solenoids and this one is baffling. Just wanted to make sure there's nothing simple I'm overlooking as it seems there's a voltage limiter or resister taking over (Like a bad relay) but I can't find any in the wiring schematics.
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Old 01-10-2020, 08:51 AM   #9 (permalink)
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https://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/

Have you tried putting it in neutral and cranking it? Easy answer is NSS will not allow it to crank over unless its in park or neutral. And in park, sometimes they dont fully engage the NSS.
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Old 01-10-2020, 04:27 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Should be in non-hard core. You have to accept some flames in this section!

1990 SJ will have the later style gear reduction starter, same part as a 4.0l XJ, not the old school Ford starter. They don't have the usual Ford style fender solenoid, but it does have a separate starter relay. looks like this:



Should be mounted on the right side inner fender.

The neutral safety switch provides ground to the starter relay. The center pin in the neutral safety/Backup light switch on the driver's side rear of the case is what provides the ground when in park or neutral. Should be a Black wire with a white stripe. You can jumper a ground wire to it if you suspect a bad switch. Same color at the fender relay.

The small green wire on the starter relay should get power when the ignition switch is in the start position. The heavier green wire goes down to the starter mounted solenoid. The heavy red wire should have battery + power.

Edit: Reread the original post, it's 1980 and WILL have the Ford type starter!


OK, for that one, the fender solenoid has a separate grounding stud on the bottom of it. It does not ground through the base. It looks like this:

The grounding stud gets the ground through the neutral safety switch center pin as I said above. Sometimes a Ford solenoid is installed without the stud, if the base is properly grounded, the Jeep would start in ANY gear. (Might be OK on a trail rig, not good for the street) Often, the little "L" shaped pigtail connector isn't installed, either accidently or as theft prevention by the owner. Jumper a ground to the little stud and see if it now will crank over.

Hope this helps!

Last edited by Marty, SoCal; 01-10-2020 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 01-10-2020, 06:59 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Marty, SoCal View Post
OK, for that one, the fender solenoid has a separate grounding stud on the bottom of it. It does not ground through the base. It looks like this:

The grounding stud gets the ground through the neutral safety switch center pin as I said above. Sometimes a Ford solenoid is installed without the stud, if the base is properly grounded, the Jeep would start in ANY gear. (Might be OK on a trail rig, not good for the street) Often, the little "L" shaped pigtail connector isn't installed, either accidently or as theft prevention by the owner. Jumper a ground to the little stud and see if it now will crank over.

Hope this helps!
Not sure this is accurate.
My 1979 had four studs on the solenoid. Two for the battery power to go thru, and two small studs for the ignition wire power (activates the solenoid) and ground
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:37 PM   #12 (permalink)
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'79 SJs use the TH400, the neutral safety switch is on the steering column and breaks the power side of the starter solenoid, those use the usual Ford 4 stud solenoid. The extra small stud is actually an ignition boost, not a ground. (Marked with an "I" on some brand solenoids). Same solenoid was used in later years with manual transmissions as it grounds through the case to the mounting bolts. The ground stud on the later five stud ones with Chrysler transmissions is on the opposite side from the usual small terminals.

You can just see the brass terminal for the ground wire peaking out from under the body:

Last edited by Marty, SoCal; 01-13-2020 at 01:41 PM.
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