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-   -   Full Float Conversion (https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/jeep-hardcore-tech/2696378-full-float-conversion.html)

Venturer 02-13-2020 07:15 PM

Full Float Conversion
 
Mitchell Differentials in MA builds SF to FF conversions for several brands. It's a bolt on kit built for your particular axle. It appears the wms remains the same. Has anyone tried one or knows someone who has? Results??

arse_sidewards 02-14-2020 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venturer (Post 44817768)
Mitchell Differentials in MA builds SF to FF conversions for several brands. It's a bolt on kit built for your particular axle. It appears the wms remains the same. Has anyone tried one or knows someone who has? Results??

There's at least one person on fullsize bronco who tried it. It came with approximately D44 sized spindled and whatnot.

For the money I think it would be far more worthwhile to build the poor man's full floater out of a Ford 9 or just swap in a real full floating axle. They're everywhere and cheap.

Venturer 02-14-2020 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arse_sidewards (Post 44817974)
There's at least one person on fullsize bronco who tried it. It came with approximately D44 sized spindled and whatnot.

For the money I think it would be far more worthwhile to build the poor man's full floater out of a Ford 9 or just swap in a real full floating axle. They're everywhere and cheap.

I'm not sure that is an option for me. My 3rd section is a TRU HI 9 (Mega 9 gears) and the housing is Spidertrax with big Ford old style flange. I don't want to give up the center section and don't know if a Ford housing has the same wms to wms.

waterhorse 02-14-2020 07:37 AM

I have that kit on my DD fulsize Bronco. Had it for about twenty years. I run 38's and the 8.8 couldn't take them. It has been pretty good to me. Eventually, I broke the flange off the hubs. Now they make the hubs and flange out of billit. (Before they were welded.) I couldn't go to their new hubs because they changed some stuff. So I ended up machining my own.

One other issue I had was cracking the brake flange on the axle housing. This problem would not occur if you weld the spindle on instead of bolt. But I wanted to be able to transfer the kit to another axle. I did this when a bought another Bronco. I bent the axle tubes on that Bronco. (Nothing to do with the kit) So I finally built a new 8.8 with a truss and swapped the kit on it. (I reinforced the brake flange on it)

Since then, I haven't had any real problems. I think the kit is good quality and a real upgrade, and solves a lot of problems. But for the money, it's a tough call. If I were to do it again, I would swap in some tons and never look back. The only reason to this is if you want to stay five lug. I have Rare Alcoa wheels (that I love) so I'll keep it.

arse_sidewards 02-14-2020 07:44 AM

What rig is this going in, what are the spec and what is the intended use?

I think you should buy a pair of '05+ unit bearing cups (same bolt pattern as Dodge so you can use Dodge bearings with an alignment ring and a different axle shaft if you want to use 8x6.5), weld them on and be done with it.

Venturer 02-14-2020 08:34 AM

This is on my Jeep/Buggy. It's a YJ frame with an aluminum LS1, 350 auto, atlas, Dana hp 60 front, TRU HI 9 rear with a CJ7 body tubed at the rear. 108" wb running 43" TSL stickies. It weighs 4200# and used for rock crawling. It had been run for several years without breaking the Dutchman axle shafts, but has bent a couple and tristed the splines. I'm putting a new shaft in now, but after having a shaved 14 bolt in my LJ, I just don't want to worry about when the next shaft will bend. I want to retain the clearance, lighter weight of the 9, 5 on 5.5 bp and 63"wms. Just looking for the most reasonable way to get it done. Thanks

Beat95YJ 02-14-2020 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arse_sidewards (Post 44818262)
What rig is this going in, what are the spec and what is the intended use?

I think you should buy a pair of '05+ unit bearing cups (same bolt pattern as Dodge so you can use Dodge bearings with an alignment ring and a different axle shaft if you want to use 8x6.5), weld them on and be done with it.

He had a thread where we recommended that, we found several vendors. He HGTD it.

Beat95YJ 02-14-2020 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venturer (Post 44818198)
I'm not sure that is an option for me. My 3rd section is a TRU HI 9 (Mega 9 gears) and the housing is Spidertrax with big Ford old style flange. I don't want to give up the center section and don't know if a Ford housing has the same wms to wms.

IMO The best option would be to build a new housing and sell your current housing and shafts. Reuse your third.

Everything else aside from bearing cups is going to be Mickey Mouse. Do it this way and it will be done right.

arse_sidewards 02-14-2020 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venturer (Post 44818370)
I want to retain the clearance, lighter weight of the 9, 5 on 5.5 bp and 63"wms. Just looking for the most reasonable way to get it done. Thanks

Fuck it. Buy the biggest 5x5.5 unit bearing you can find, take measurements, make (or have someone else make) some cups and buy custom axle shafts to go with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44818404)
He had a thread where we recommended that, we found several vendors. He HGTD it.

Lol, didn't realize this was the same guy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44818414)
IMO The best option would be to build a new housing and sell your current housing and shafts. Reuse your third.

Everything else aside from bearing cups is going to be Mickey Mouse. Do it this way and it will be done right.

Arguably he could graft the ends from a FF axle on but that would be more work.

Beat95YJ 02-14-2020 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arse_sidewards (Post 44818426)
Lol, didn't realize this was the same guy.

I found a place on Facebook that made any cup you wanted, I went back to post it in his thread and he deleted three threads.

Kunker 02-14-2020 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44818436)
I found a place on Facebook that made any cup you wanted, I went back to post it in his thread and he deleted three threads.

Link? My search skills aren't always the greatest, especially on FB.

Beat95YJ 02-14-2020 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunker (Post 44818498)
Link? My search skills aren't always the greatest, especially on FB.

It was in one of the groups Iím in. I wanted to remember it, so I was going to post in thread so it could be found again. If I see it again, Iíll repost.

FB sucks for finding stuff. :mad3::flipoff:

Venturer 02-14-2020 10:27 AM

Sorry to be a pest here. Was just trying to tap into the knowledge here to determine what my options are. A highly qualified local shop has quoted $3400 to convert it. That surprised me a bit and am debating whether to write the check or consider the Mitchell option. I'm not setup here to do more than bolt on, so beyond that it goes to a shop.

CSP 02-14-2020 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44818520)
FB sucks for finding stuff. :mad3::flipoff:

Three little dots at the top right of any post if you're viewing on a mobile device, then click on save post. No need to rely on your notifications to follow a post.

Black Sheep 02-14-2020 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venturer (Post 44818618)
Sorry to be a pest here. Was just trying to tap into the knowledge here to determine what my options are. A highly qualified local shop has quoted $3400 to convert it. That surprised me a bit and am debating whether to write the check or consider the Mitchell option. I'm not setup here to do more than bolt on, so beyond that it goes to a shop.

For $3400 you could buy a new housing, shafts, hubs, and brakes.

But you wont listen to the first 100 suggestions, so get your checkbook out and pay the shop.

Kunker 02-18-2020 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Sheep (Post 44819426)
For $3400 you could buy a new housing, shafts, hubs, and brakes.

But you wont listen to the first 100 suggestions, so get your checkbook out and pay the shop.

This.

YotaAtieToo 02-18-2020 09:51 AM

The MD Full Float Rear Differential Conversion Kit – Mitchell Differential Inc.

Like mentioned, spindles look tiny. Mess one up and you're screws since it's a one off part. Kit looks like it's meant for a typical mild bronco or jeep, not a damn buggy on 43 stickies.

Weld on unit bearing cups or 14b spindles. Either one can be had in 5x5.5.

waterhorse 02-18-2020 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo (Post 44823794)
The MD Full Float Rear Differential Conversion Kit Ė Mitchell Differential Inc.

Like mentioned, spindles look tiny. Mess one up and you're screws since it's a one off part. Kit looks like it's meant for a typical mild bronco or jeep, not a damn buggy on 43 stickies.

Weld on unit bearing cups or 14b spindles. Either one can be had in 5x5.5.

Interesting. 14b spindles with hubs in 5x5.5? The spindles in the kit are as big as can be and still fit the hub through a 5x5.5 wheel. They use special thin bearings to do that. So how is it done on the 14b?

YotaAtieToo 02-18-2020 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterhorse (Post 44824792)
Interesting. 14b spindles with hubs in 5x5.5? The spindles in the kit are as big as can be and still fit the hub through a 5x5.5 wheel. They use special thin bearings to do that. So how is it done on the 14b?

No, stock everything you can get at any parts store. You can either redrill the stock hubs or buy solid hubs in 5x5.5.

Does mitchell offer chromo shafts as an option? Guy is already twisting high quality Dutchman chromo shafts. So going full float and 1541 shafts would be a downgrade.

Beat95YJ 02-18-2020 07:18 PM

1 Attachment(s)
This is not a great photograph, but I donít like the looks of the weld on the spindles.

Black Sheep 02-18-2020 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterhorse (Post 44824792)
Interesting. 14b spindles with hubs in 5x5.5? The spindles in the kit are as big as can be and still fit the hub through a 5x5.5 wheel. They use special thin bearings to do that. So how is it done on the 14b?

It amazes me you do the work you do, then say stupid shit like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44824822)
This is not a great photograph, but I donít like the looks of the weld on the spindles.

That's some quality shit for $1400 :homer:

Agree with above 1541 is a downgrade.

arse_sidewards 02-19-2020 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat95YJ (Post 44824822)
This is not a great photograph, but I donít like the looks of the weld on the spindles.

To be fair the description says they now machine the entire spindle from a blank. I wonder why? :laughing:

waterhorse 02-19-2020 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo (Post 44824812)
No, stock everything you can get at any parts store. You can either redrill the stock hubs or buy solid hubs in 5x5.5.

Does mitchell offer chromo shafts as an option? Guy is already twisting high quality Dutchman chromo shafts. So going full float and 1541 shafts would be a downgrade.

Redrilling the hubs is not the problem. The hub is too big to go through a 5x5.5 wheel. The hub is what determines the bearing size. The bearing size deturmines the spindle size. This kit has the biggest spindle that will go through a 5x5.5 wheel hub. So if you are saying that a stock 14b hub will go through a 5x5.5 wheel, then the spindle is not any bigger. Isn't that what you claimed?

I have looked into this on a Sterling hub. If I bore the 5x5.5 wheel out to fit on the hub, I would cut into the lug nuts. If I turn down the hub, it probably would be unexceptble thin wall. Plus you would be cutting into the axle bolts.

YotaAtieToo 02-19-2020 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterhorse (Post 44825234)
Redrilling the hubs is not the problem. The hub is too big to go through a 5x5.5 wheel. The hub is what determines the bearing size. The bearing size deturmines the spindle size. This kit has the biggest spindle that will go through a 5x5.5 wheel hub. So if you are saying that a stock 14b hub will go through a 5x5.5 wheel, then the spindle is not any bigger. Isn't that what you claimed?

I have looked into this on a Sterling hub. If I bore the 5x5.5 wheel out to fit on the hub, I would cut into the lug nuts. If I turn down the hub, it probably would be unexceptble thin wall. Plus you would be cutting into the axle bolts.

Man you really have to shit on every thread. Maybe spend a little 5ime with Google before ruining every tech thread.

14b hub is smaller than a dana or sterling hub. It's right at max od for 5x5.5 or 6x6.5. This has been known for about 20+ years.

The Diameter of the spindles isn't the only factor. The length and, the shitty weld that was pointed out and the fact that it attaches to 4 little bolts that were never designed to take the full weight of the rig.

waterhorse 02-19-2020 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo (Post 44825276)
Man you really have to shit on every thread. Maybe spend a little 5ime with Google before ruining every tech thread.

14b hub is smaller than a dana or sterling hub. It's right at max od for 5x5.5 or 6x6.5. This has been known for about 20+ years.

The Diameter of the spindles isn't the only factor. The length and, the shitty weld that was pointed out and the fact that it attaches to 4 little bolts that were never designed to take the full weight of the rig.

I addressed diameter because that is what you were remarked about. If a 14b hub is smaller, then the spindle is probably the same as the kit. Possibly the 14b spindle is smaller if it doesn't use the thin bearings.

It's interesting how you know the dimentions of the spindle when you are looking at a picture. Did you learn that on goggle?

I have the early version of this kit, so I would say I know more about it then you. I've talked to MD about the changes from my kit to the current kit. The four bolts do not take the weight. (Even on my kit) They just hold it in, and you can weld it also.


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