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Old 09-12-2007, 05:26 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Make an internal stop for the ram to limit travel

anyone crack one of these open?
it has a clip that moves when I spin the cap.
also, is there a limit on how much "stop" i can put in it?
its a 8" throw that I want to restrict to 5". 1.5 inside 1.5 outside




Last edited by jeepgif; 09-12-2007 at 06:53 PM.
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Old 09-12-2007, 06:08 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I've done this with other cylinders, but not this brand. 5" should be no problem, cut a piece of DOM that will slip over the shaft and then...wait a minute, with the end welded on the shaft like that I'm not sure it will come apart to slip the DOM over it.

With the Howe cylinder, I took the heim off, used a spanner to remove the end cap, slipprd the cap off, slid a piece of dom over it (3" piece to limit your travel to 5"), and put it back together.

Dunno about that one.
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Old 09-12-2007, 08:50 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I know I'm a noob on here, but I know hydraulics pretty well.

try that same piece of DOM, split down the sides so you can lay it over the shaft, and make/buy some tube clamps that will fasten it onto the shaft.

Or you can take the shaft out of the cylinder, make/buy a plug that will fit the bore, it doesn't have to be a real tight fit, and push that into the bore before reinserting the shaft. You could either make this 3" or 1.5" and add another spacer that is the same o.d. and is bored to fit over the shaft. Put the bored spacer over the shaft and reassemble.

I'm not sure why you're worried about taking 1.5" off of each end of the stroke, it doesn't actually matter, just adjust your drag link to work. I would either do the external spacer (easiest/quickest) or the internal 3" spacer (cleanest/least likely to be damaged).

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Old 09-12-2007, 09:20 PM   #4 (permalink)
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try that same piece of DOM, split down the sides so you can lay it over the shaft, and make/buy some tube clamps that will fasten it onto the shaft.
I thought about that, no reason I can think it wouldn't work. I would weld it though. I would think any kind of clamp could come loose or break over time and cause a dangerous situation (if they fell apart, they could fall to the bottom of the cylinder and stack up to = 6" and put you stuck in a hard turn at the wrong time).
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Old 09-12-2007, 09:33 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I used a hard plastic stuff like cutting board, it was a piece of 2'' round and hole saw a 1'' hole to go over shaft, exterior though. alot easier. If you want pictures I will post.
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Old 09-12-2007, 10:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
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or you could just place the cylinder in the optimal location for the stroke.
Not the problem, if ihis throw is too long, it's too long

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Originally Posted by trkklr77 View Post
if its for steering it will only stroke as long as the wheel is being turned, stop turn the wheel because you are at full lock and the shaft stops.
This is exactly the point, to fix it properly. It's like asking, "why fix your cruise control when you can just hold your foot on the gas?"

Because backing off on your steering to prevent your ram from straining aginst the springs, panhard rod, etc is lame.
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Old 09-13-2007, 06:59 AM   #7 (permalink)
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but thats not how it works, the wheel is still turned but it is not being turned any farther, ei: no more presure is being applied. if it was the other way even the slightest turn of the wheel would cause the ram to full stroke and jam up the knuckle.
You don't have the best grasp on hydro steering do you? The amount of feed back threw a steer valve is not always that great and it is very easy to come up against the stops and exert a great deal of pressure on the stops before you realize that you are at lock and end up damaging steering components; especially if you are turning the wheel quickly. In any hydro steer setup you want the cylinder to bottom before you are at the mechanical stops.

As far as the stroke goes you can not always find a cylinder with *exactly* the stroke that you need and placement has no effect on the stroke required, you either need 8" of travel or you don't. Sleeving cylinders both on the inside o f the body and on the rod is fairly common practice; equipment manufactures often use both internal and external spacers to get parts cross over on the same basic cylinder or to get different amounts of travel from the same set up while only having to stock a small number of basic cylinder bodies and guts.

As far as the spacing goes:

On that style of cylinder the little tab you see moving around in the slot is actually a tab on a big long piece of steel band (I am sure it has an actual name but hell if I know it) that fits in a slot and retains the head of the cylinder. You should be able to get it to pull out and then the gland nut/head will just pop right out, a little compressed air on the ports will help if it is being stubborn. If the clevis end is welded on chances are the piston comes off of the rod and you can put the sleeve on from that end. Generally one end or the other has to come off so you can change the rod seals. In applications where both ends where fixed I have had spacers machined that where made of two halves that bolted together around the rod. You could also just split a piece of tube and weld it back together... same goes for the external spacer.
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Old 09-13-2007, 07:44 AM   #8 (permalink)
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You are using that as an assist cylinder. Just center it and mount it. When the steering box hits the internal stops the fluid in the box and therefor the ram will bypass back to the reservior.

Box stops, ram stops. The ram can't do any damage if there is no pressure to it.

Mount it and go wheeling
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Old 09-13-2007, 07:58 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Here is a picture of the stop that I turned down for my ram. But like was said, if your setup is hydro assist, then you don't need any stops on the ram. When the box gets to full lock the pressure to the ram drops off...


Last edited by rioshilo; 09-13-2007 at 08:00 AM.
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Old 09-13-2007, 10:43 AM   #10 (permalink)
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so the deal is... I already have the ram mounted. I centered the Ram stroke to the steering stroke. ie. when I turn full lock to lock the ram still will have 1.5" of travel either direction.






I have thought of the outside: split a piece of DOM down the sides lay it over the shaft and stitch weld it.

Its the inside i'm hung up on. I dont know what the hell the clip is for or how to remove it. Just looking for tips before I rip and tear. I did put a request for instructions on how to change the seals because I figured "it has to come apart for that"
How do I get in this sucker and add the spacers?

Last edited by jeepgif; 09-13-2007 at 02:12 PM.
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Old 09-13-2007, 01:09 PM   #11 (permalink)
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As mentioned before, the spring clip in the picture holds the gland nut or cyc head on. To remove use a small screwdriver or pick and gently lift the spring clip up. If the gland nut doesn't have two hole in the end for a spanner wrench, you may have to use channel locks, pipewrench, or a chain wrench to turn the gland nut counter clockwise to get the pick under the spring clip. While holding the clip up turn the gland nut clockwise and the spring clip will travel out. Be careful not to break this sping clip, the other end of the clip will have a 90 degree bend, which fits into a small hole in the grove on the gland nut. When reassembling make sure the little bend is in the hole and then turn the gland nut counter clockwise to suck the spring clip back in.

Use caution when using compressed to blow the piston/piston rod/ head out. too much air and it will travel across the shop really, really fast.
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Old 09-13-2007, 02:04 PM   #12 (permalink)
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As mentioned before, the spring clip in the picture holds the gland nut or cyc head on. To remove use a small screwdriver or pick and gently lift the spring clip up. If the gland nut doesn't have two hole in the end for a spanner wrench, you may have to use channel locks, pipewrench, or a chain wrench to turn the gland nut counter clockwise to get the pick under the spring clip. While holding the clip up turn the gland nut clockwise and the spring clip will travel out. Be careful not to break this sping clip, the other end of the clip will have a 90 degree bend, which fits into a small hole in the grove on the gland nut. When reassembling make sure the little bend is in the hole and then turn the gland nut counter clockwise to suck the spring clip back in.

Use caution when using compressed to blow the piston/piston rod/ head out. too much air and it will travel across the shop really, really fast.
thanks guys
I didnt want to get into it with out an idea of what to expect.
I'm the "hand me that bigger hammer" type of guy.
so a little info goes a long way...
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Old 09-14-2007, 10:54 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Updates Ram Complete.

Here it is apart:


I cut some 1.5" .25 wall DOM and made some spacers.
To clean them up: First I ran a 1" air stone inside. I would dip in it in oil first so it would not leave any groves. To lean up the outside I placed the DOM on a 1" bolt and ran the 4" flap disk over it. The friction from the flap disk would spin the DOM on the bolt as I ran the grinder back and forth. (poor mans lathe).




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Old 09-14-2007, 03:07 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Here it is apart:
I cut some 1.5" .25 wall DOM and made some spacers.
To clean them up: First I ran a 1" air stone inside. I would dip in it in oil first so it would not leave any groves. To lean up the outside I placed the DOM on a 1" bolt and ran the 4" flap disk over it. The friction from the flap disk would spin the DOM on the bolt as I ran the grinder back and forth. (poor mans lathe).
Well its nice that you did that, but it looks like you are still using a steering box and using hydro assist. If you read above you would know that as soon as the steering box gets to the internal stop, there is no more fluid being sent to the ram. So, you do not need the stops.
Now the problem is if your stops are not setup perfectly between the internal box stops, and the ram stops, i think that could cause some loss of steering angle, it could also place more pressure on the pump since it is still trying to turn the wheels more, but the tubing on the ram wont let it push any further.
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Old 09-15-2007, 12:07 AM   #15 (permalink)
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That is why as hydro steering got more into this sport, the hydro assist wasn't causing many problems at all with slightly sloppy fab/steering setup. The steering box bypasses when it hits it's limits instead of the ram hitting it's limit on travel. Knowledge is good Spread it....
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Old 09-18-2007, 08:06 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Do you have a part number on this cylinder?
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[QUOTE=welndmn;10381954]You should build your rig so the weak link is traction :)
I run slugs myself.[/QUOTE]
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Old 09-18-2007, 08:26 PM   #17 (permalink)
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That is why as hydro steering got more into this sport, the hydro assist wasn't causing many problems at all with slightly sloppy fab/steering setup. The steering box bypasses when it hits it's limits instead of the ram hitting it's limit on travel. Knowledge is good Spread it....
Now that is a great thing to know, as I am setting up my Hydro assist. Knowledge is power!
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Old 09-18-2007, 08:35 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Do you have a part number on this cylinder?
Prolly this one

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...name=hydraulic

There aren't that many different ones to choose from. I've got the 6" stroke version for my diamond/toy front. You'd probably want the 8" for your D44...
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:06 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Prolly this one

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...name=hydraulic

There aren't that many different ones to choose from. I've got the 6" stroke version for my diamond/toy front. You'd probably want the 8" for your D44...
I haven't measured yet... my arm TRE hole to balljoint center is shorter than stock d44... so the 6 may work. I just didn't see that cylinder on surplus center the other night... must have overlooked it.
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[QUOTE=welndmn;10381954]You should build your rig so the weak link is traction :)
I run slugs myself.[/QUOTE]
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:25 AM   #20 (permalink)
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yes, that is the one...
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Old 11-14-2007, 08:59 PM   #21 (permalink)
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So an update on this. I bought this ram. I tore apart my steering box, rebuilt and tapped it, then installed everything (using -6 hoses.)

I have the weak side of the ram on left turn. So right turn is great, I put the passanger tire against a concrete pylon, turn the wheel, and the whole Jeep goes sideways. Left turn definatly not as powerful. It will move the Jeep, but with a lot of help from me.

So I mod my pump, and it gets slightly better. I go wheeling. I notice that left turn is th e weak side, but it only presents itself a few times.

This ram has a huge ass rod (1"). Basically it has 1/3 of the fluid volume on the weak side. If your pusing 1500PSI on the strong side, that is obviosly 500 PSI weak side. The other rams (like the PSC) have a 5/8 piston. So they are ~41% weaker on the short side. In this instance ~885 psi.

I know with rod ends a name brand 1.5 cylinder is 2x as much, but just food for thought.
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[QUOTE=welndmn;10381954]You should build your rig so the weak link is traction :)
I run slugs myself.[/QUOTE]
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