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Old 02-15-2008, 06:55 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Going against the Odds

EDIT AS OF 16 AUGUST, 2013: JEEP IS SOLD. IM MOVING ON TO MY OTHER PROJECTS. WANNA FINISH THE BUGGY AND IM HAVING TOO MUCH FUN ON MY BIKE RIGHT NOW!!
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EDIT AS OF APRIL 16, 2011: New project started:https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...511&highlight=
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Well Im startin another "small" build thread. I've done all my homework and reading and researching and calculating.

So Im sick and tired of trying to pull 36" swampers up the long hills or through super soft sand. I look like an idiot sometimes when I have to but it in 4wd low!!! just to get through something.

Now we all know that the 4.0 inline H.O. six is a great motor. I love my motor. Its super reliable in all situations. So before anyone says "Go SBC", or "Go buy this S.C. Kit", or "Go buy this 505 Performace kit", I will flat say, Hell F*$K NO! Why, because I wanna BUILD something and be my own design. Enough of my soap box. Here are some pics:

Exhaust side:

another body shot:

and intake:


The A/R of the turbine is .63
The A/R of the compressor is .60

This will be installed on a 1993 YJ with a stock 4.0. This will be done and designed in a modular system for ease of quick changes with limited effort. I will run only 5-6 on boost to get the system to tune. Once tuned, I will turn up the boost.

Included in the buy was severel silicon hose attatchments, the exhaust flange to mount to the turbo, A Blow off valve.

The turbo is internally waste gated so I don't have to fool with that crap. I will have to change out the spring for the waste gate to get a lower boost. Currently set for 8-12 psi. That much and I will push out my head gasket and we don't want that.

I will run a inline FMU for fuel requirements. And a small intercooler will be in the works later.

First step: start building the exhaust pipe/flange to mount the turbo and new exhaust. I will be running 2.5" after the exhaust and 2.25 to the turbine. The turbo will be mounted on the passenger side for ease of room.

And ATP Turbo seems like they are willing to give me tech/phone support for when I need it.

For any more questions, read the following thread:
https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=649011

this won't kick off until after KOH. I gotta go work a Gate and Heckle the drivers as they pass by
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Old 02-16-2008, 07:35 AM   #2 (permalink)
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its about time. Now get on it so we can work out the bugs.
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Old 02-16-2008, 09:07 AM   #3 (permalink)
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At what RPM will it start to really kick in? Are you going to DYNO once completed.
I like it
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Last edited by retardatwork; 02-16-2008 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 02-16-2008, 03:10 PM   #4 (permalink)
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sounds like a cool project. how much improvement are you hoping for numbers wisE?
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Old 02-16-2008, 07:08 PM   #5 (permalink)
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At what RPM will it start to really kick in? Are you going to DYNO once completed.
I like it
No dyno work will be done. Im hoping the turbo starts spooling at 2K RPM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrono4 View Post
sounds like a cool project. how much improvement are you hoping for numbers wisE?
After the phase 1 is done, maybe about 35-45 HP.
Phase one includes:
1. Complete brand new 2.5" mandral bent exhaust system starting from the turbin exit all the way to the back. I am even buying a larger 2.5" cat to handle the duties. this will all be made by me. I will be buying pre-bent pieces and just cuttin and piecen together.

2. mandrel bent 2.25" to the turbine flange. I will use the stock exhaust manifold and everything else will be new. even going to flange a new attachment to the manifold with a new 4 wire wide band 0-2 sensor. this piece will bend forward and around the oil pan up to the turbine flange.

3. Off course mounting the turbo and running the oil plumbing. I will have to drop the oil pan to tap the drain line. I even have brand new oil and a filter for when I do this

4. going from the compressor straight to the TB. No intercooler in phase one. I just want to get this power house working correctly. this includes the FMU plumbed into the fuel return side, fooling the MAP when under boost, rerouting my Vacumn system so when under boost, Im not spewing OIL all over the place

5. when all is tuned and working at 5-6 pounds of boost, then I will slowly improve as I go. Remember, a 4.7 liter stroker is in the plans running 10-12 pounds through an intercooler with some sort of on-board ECU controll system. I might consider a built megasquirt(350+HP/420+trq).

I don't expect phase one to be complete in a month. I just want to get my new exhaust and turbo mounted correctly. When Im satisfied with the way the exhaust and turbo mounting is done, I will remove the turbo and build some sort of by-pass until I can afford the little pieces. That stuff aint cheep man

At least I finally got the turbo that was the hardest part of all of this was gettin a decent turbo at a decent price.
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Old 02-16-2008, 07:23 PM   #6 (permalink)
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its about time. Now get on it so we can work out the bugs.
Patience. first step is the exhaust and up pipe system. Im going to have to pay someone to flange one of my pieces for a dounut set up.

Where can I buy a weld in bung for a jeep yj O-2 sensor? that is the only part I seem to not find?!

I might just use a regular Nut but that will look Fugly
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Old 02-16-2008, 07:26 PM   #7 (permalink)
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this gives me a worm fuzzy feeling
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Old 02-16-2008, 07:41 PM   #8 (permalink)
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this will be cool, turbos are WAY cooler than any supercharger, finding a good place to put the intercooler on a jeep will be a pain though since you can't just do front mount since it will get bashed. You can always make a top mount setup and get a small hood scoop

You may want to consider not using any intercooler since it won't do anything at crawl speeds anyway. You should be able to get away with 10-14psi boost without one on a turbo that size and you won't be able to do much more than that on a stock motor without breaking internals anyway
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Old 02-16-2008, 07:54 PM   #9 (permalink)
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this will be cool, turbos are WAY cooler than any supercharger, finding a good place to put the intercooler on a jeep will be a pain though since you can't just do front mount since it will get bashed.
Actually, my max room in front of the radiator behind the grill is 18"W x 13"H x 3.5" Deep. There is a intercooler on the market with similar specs(3" deep). Its for a Honda Accord and civic/Acura integra

and the intercooler will work at speeds anyway under boost. I just hate crawling through sand or hoping I get through that mudpit so I can get to the trail head.
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Old 02-16-2008, 07:58 PM   #10 (permalink)
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yeah, it will only work at speeds, so if you're gonna go fast some then why not if you got space. Good luck to ya on that one, it will be cool when its done, just don't buy an HKS BOV ever, they are so annoying
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Old 02-16-2008, 07:59 PM   #11 (permalink)
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if you could be content with 5-6 lbs boost all that extra engine management/7th injector stuff is irrelevent and you can save yourself thousands of $ and unlimited amounts of time. Perhaps just go for a slight injector upgrade (more lb/hr) if you are actually rebuilding motor. If not rebuilding just run the 5lbs and call it a day.

When I built mine the goal was not ultimate power but just more power down low. Ill bet that without forced induction your 4.0 gets the job done just fine at 5000 rpms. What you realy want is all 190hp at below 3000 rpms. Peop[le often forget that forced induction is about more power across the powerband. That said my truck makes my so happy under load at 4000 rpm and 8lbs of boost. Forced induction over cubic inches.

good luck. what ever you budgeted double it

Last edited by laproscopic; 02-16-2008 at 08:06 PM.
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Old 02-17-2008, 07:15 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Your right on the budget thing. Im hoping for less then 1K installed and running 6-7 pounds. Im not including the cost of the exhaust system.

so cost tally so far:
405 for the turbo
182 for the parts for exhaust and piping(I still have to cut and build this bitch)
42 for a 6-7 PSI waste gate actuator
629 total

take away 140 for the exhaust and you bring this down to $489. I found the actuator and picked it up. the one I have is set for 8-12. this one is set for 6-7 pounds. I will se what I can do to reduce this some more.

I still gotta get my flanges and gaskets. I gotta feeling that I will be cuttin off the flange that is welded onto the tubine output and replacing it with a different one. We will see. no biggie. I gotta cuttin wheel

So if my exhaust was in great shape total cost is:
$489

question still stands. Where can I buy a weld in O-2 Bung for a 1993 YJ exhaust system?
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Old 02-17-2008, 07:31 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jpfrk2001 View Post
Your right on the budget thing. Im hoping for less then 1K installed and running 6-7 pounds. Im not including the cost of the exhaust system.

so cost tally so far:
405 for the turbo
182 for the parts for exhaust and piping(I still have to cut and build this bitch)
42 for a 6-7 PSI waste gate actuator
629 total

take away 140 for the exhaust and you bring this down to $489. I found the actuator and picked it up. the one I have is set for 8-12. this one is set for 6-7 pounds. I will se what I can do to reduce this some more.

I still gotta get my flanges and gaskets. I gotta feeling that I will be cuttin off the flange that is welded onto the tubine output and replacing it with a different one. We will see. no biggie. I gotta cuttin wheel

So if my exhaust was in great shape total cost is:
$489

question still stands. Where can I buy a weld in O-2 Bung for a 1993 YJ exhaust system?
You mean like these???!
http://motors.shop.ebay.com/items/o2...0sensorQ20bung
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Old 02-17-2008, 07:40 PM   #14 (permalink)
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thank you. thank you. thank you!

thats assuming that my O-2 sensor is metric thread? I really don't know, never replaced or removed it. I will buy a new O-2 sensor(4 wire wide band) when I build the new exhaust system. Kinda stupid to do all this and skimp on something this small. Im doin it right the first time all the way through
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Old 02-19-2008, 06:38 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Well I ordered some more parts today. Just a bunch of flanges and gaskets of various sizes. I will make the down pipe from the turbo to the cat a bolt up. as well the pipe from the header to the turbo will be a bolt up.

Talked to a guy that will flange my one piece to bolt up to my manifold for only $10 bucks. I will buy the weld on bung from him as well. He had alot of neat stuff hangin on the walls.

Order my O-2 sensor and new dounut gasket when I get back from KOH.

So cost of the flanges shipped to my door came to $81

So total so far on this is:
$629 before
+ 81
$710 total.

Im not going to make budget! Oh well. Fub it
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Old 02-19-2008, 07:18 PM   #16 (permalink)
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good luck

I have had many turbo cars, Saabs and Porches they are great.
Look for a saab 9000 intercooler they are thin. I think it might work for you application. They go for cheap on ebay.
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Old 02-19-2008, 07:24 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I will keep that in mind. thanks for the info
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Old 02-19-2008, 07:48 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jpfrk2001 View Post
Well I ordered some more parts today. Just a bunch of flanges and gaskets of various sizes. I will make the down pipe from the turbo to the cat a bolt up. as well the pipe from the header to the turbo will be a bolt up.

Talked to a guy that will flange my one piece to bolt up to my manifold for only $10 bucks. I will buy the weld on bung from him as well. He had alot of neat stuff hangin on the walls.

Order my O-2 sensor and new dounut gasket when I get back from KOH.

So cost of the flanges shipped to my door came to $81

So total so far on this is:
$629 before
+ 81
$710 total.

Im not going to make budget! Oh well. Fub it
hahaha. Thats what I said this week when i paid for my wideband.
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Old 02-24-2008, 07:13 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Well Im back from KOH and I just placed an order through RockAuto for the O-2 sensor, Doughnet, and two rubber mount pieces. All together was $69.

As soon as parts start coming in, the fabbin starts(with pictures).

The only thing I will need to get is just some nuts, bolts, strip metal for the mounting assembly. I just want to get the exhaust system/turbine mount done by the end of March.
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Old 02-26-2008, 10:03 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Hey ive read through your posts here and that old one you had on there, im kinda considering doing a turbo on my old 258.

Its a recently rebuilt 258 .030 over, clifford 4.0 head, clifford 264 duration cam, new style 4.0 intake manifold and fuel rail/injectors, clifford dual outlet header. Fuel injection controlled with megasquirt II also controlling ford EDIS distributorless ignition system.

Ive been thinking about a turbo for a while now and might try to do something to get started with it over the summer sometime, but basically looking at the same type of setup as you, a cheap custom installation with homemade manifolds, exhaust, intake etc.


[URL="http://www.stealth316.com/2-3s-compflowmaps.htm[/URL]

Here is a page with a bunch of different turbo maps. After looking at lots and lots of turbo maps i think the TD05H-16G (small) would be the best fit for my engine. I figure at 10 PSI im going to flow about 125 cfm at 1500 RPM and 375 cfm at 4500 RPM. Based on that map i should start getting boost as low as 1500 RPM, be at 77% efficiency at around 3000 RPM and should continue to provide boost at 65% efficiency at 5000 RPM. This is all at a pressure ratio of about 1.7 for 10 PSI.

I havent decided for sure to do anyhtign yet, but my plan would be to start out around 6-7 PSI possibly going up to 10 PSI. That turbo though should be able to take me up to 15 PSI if i ever decided to. Maybe higher i didnt really check any higher than 15 PSI.

Anyways thats what i came up with i would think that turbo would probably be perfect for a 4.0 as well. I dont know what your redline on them is but i doubt you see much above 5000 RPM in them.

There are lots of options in the Mitsu turbos and the maps are easy to find on the internet, so thats something to consider if your still looking at getting a different turbo. Sounds liek your might be a little too big, if you want to be able to get boost at lower RPM's. Some of the smaller ones were on old volvos, but i havent found a junkyard source for the one i want yet. New they seem to range from $500 to $700 or higher. $500 for a new turbo that seems to be a perfect match for my engine isnt too bad of a deal though. They usually come with the wastegate and oil and water cooling fittings as well.

Anyways ill be watching to see how yours goes. Do you plan on installing it on the drivers side or passengers side? I would liek to install mine on the drivers side if possible if i do one, just to keep all the exhaust and intake piping shorter, but i dont know if itll fit over there with the steering shaft and intake manifold and everything over there.

Last edited by Chrisfol82; 02-26-2008 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 02-27-2008, 08:16 AM   #21 (permalink)
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sounds like you did your home work.

I can always swap out the turbin housing for a lower A/R to help in spool up. Im just dinkering around now. I just want the system to work reliably under low boost.

The turbo will be mounted on the passenger side. I will be using the stock exhaust manifold and building a new pipe assembly to the passenger side wrapped.

Still waiting on parts. I hope to start this weekend. We will see!
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Old 02-27-2008, 10:37 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Sounds good itll be interesting to see how that works out. Id liek to keep my exhaust manifold as short as possible, i was considering getting liek an old used 4.0 exhaust header, and cutting it up to make it discharge right into the turbo possibly right under the brake booster.

Sounds like the longer exhaust runs can decrease your efficiency since you might loose some of the heat traveling to the other side of the engine. Also from what ive read the temp's can be hard on long exhaust runs, eventually leading to cracking.

I havent looked into it closely enouhg though i dont even know if id have enough room in that position and still be able to get my oil drain line back to the pan.
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Old 02-27-2008, 11:33 AM   #23 (permalink)
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This looks like a really cool project. Can't wait to see the end result.

Regarding the intercooler effectiveness at slow speed, why not mount a fan to the 'cooler and only use it when on the trail? As long as you can move cool air across the heat exchanger, it should work.
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Old 02-27-2008, 01:18 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Chrisfol82 View Post

Sounds like the longer exhaust runs can decrease your efficiency since you might loose some of the heat traveling to the other side of the engine. Also from what ive read the temp's can be hard on long exhaust runs, eventually leading to cracking.

I havent looked into it closely enouhg though i dont even know if id have enough room in that position and still be able to get my oil drain line back to the pan.
You are correct on loosing effectiveness on a longer runner, But I have no choice. I need this turbo High and protected from Rocks(I run the Hammer trails).

I will wrap the pipe to keep as much Heat as possible. But its better then doing a fully remote unit like you see on Corvettes. I will run a EGT guage to monitor the temps to make sure I don't go in the RED zone.

As for a Fan, That won't happen unless I replace the mechanical unit off the motor. I don't need a turbo until I get into the high speed stuff(Climbing a sand hill in a taller gear for wheel speed, climbing that long steep grade on the highway)

Plus, Im going to 39's now.
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Old 02-29-2008, 07:30 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Got a little done. I was looking at the turbine assy and I decided to rotate the parts to better soot for my needs. I also decided to remove the 8-12psi WG(Waste Gate) actuator for the other 6-8 psi one. the one with the Japanese writing is the lower one:

And before I took off the Higher WG, I took some measurments so I can adjust the lower WG to specs:

Now the WG is removed, I can rotate the CHRA(Center Housing Rotating Assembly) Notice in this pic the difference between the input on the Turbine compared the the output on the compresser Verses the oil return line location. this clearly will not work.


I wanted the input of the turbine facing down and the output of the compressor facing down in line for the future Intercooler. I also needed the oil return tube facing down. AND I needed to take into account the line up and the relocation of the WG actuator bracket so all is in working order. So after a beer and rotating things, this is what I came up with:


And everthing is still inline. if this current setup don't work, I can remove the assembly and adjust the rotation of the turbo.

And here are some pics of some needed stuff:


Picture of the Greddy Blow off valve:


And you can't run a turbo without 2.25" mandrel bent tubing(cut and welded to fit) to the turbin. Also included is 2.5" mandrel bent tubing to the 2.5" cat and muffler then a straight dump:


Still waiting on my donuot and 0-2 sensor.

Tomorrow is tear down. I decided to remove the R/S fender for ease of accessability.
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