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Old 07-26-2002, 09:40 AM   #1 (permalink)
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TOTW: Building on a budget

Welcome to the next installment of the

Topic of the Week

Ok, this week is going to be a bit different. We're not going to focus too much on any of the technical aspects of building your rig. We're going to think, be creative, and dream a bit.

You have in front of you a rig with no drive train in it. Pretty much a frame and body. Pick your fav style, it doesn't matter. The body is relatively straight and rust free. Your job is to build a multipurpose rig. I mean one that will handle rocks, mud, snow, and streets use.

What would you do? You need to pick an engine, tranny, transfer case drive shafts, axles, tires, rims, wiring harness, cage, etc.

You have all the tools you want at your disposal. But remember this has to be a Jeep... no tube buggy stuff.

And you have $5000 to do it.
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Old 07-26-2002, 12:11 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I'd start off with a beat J-truck for the 360, t-18a, d20, d44 front, d60 rear (if I were lucky enough, if not then at least it's a d44 rear).
Look hard around here and you can get them for way less than $800. Some people don't know what they have.

There's a cheap and good drivetrain all at once. And that would be keeping it Jeep. You could do the same with a beat Chevy too.

$4,200 left...
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Old 07-26-2002, 03:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Go to a military auction and bid on CUCV 1.25 ton Chevy trucks, we've got them for less then 600 bucks, in good running condition. Shitty motors but HD d60 front, FF14 bolt rear, 4.56 R&P, SM465 or TH400, NP205, dual elec system(2 alts, 2 batts,ect, 2 seperate systems on the same motor),,,,,,You could sell the cab, box and frame(HD frames) for enough to buy a used 350 motor.
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Old 07-26-2002, 05:38 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I say do a SOA to run 35's on most any year, put some gears in the transfercase, some 4.56's and lockers and Get it!
Transfercase gears $1000
SOA $500
4.56's and lockers $1500
35's and 10" rims $1000
That leaves $1000 for a 4spd or SYE or whatever else is needed.
That would be a better wheeler than I had for the first 10 yrs or wheeling.
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Old 07-26-2002, 07:15 PM   #5 (permalink)
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well for those of us who dont care bout looks..... id look for a totaled.. out rig.. theres a place near here that has them all the time... one a few weeks ago.. it had been in water up to the center of the wheels.. brand new on a dealership lot.. so it was totaled.. it was for sale at 2500... so then lift and tires.. locrites.. for the time being till i could get more cash flow.. starting out u dont have to be hard core.. and no rig is built over night..

build up stock for now.. then once it starts breaking then keep addin
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Old 07-27-2002, 11:41 AM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Originally posted by PYRO
Go to a military auction and bid on CUCV 1.25 ton Chevy trucks, we've got them for less then 600 bucks, in good running condition. Shitty motors but HD d60 front, FF14 bolt rear, 4.56 R&P, SM465 or TH400, NP205, dual elec system(2 alts, 2 batts,ect, 2 seperate systems on the same motor),,,,,,You could sell the cab, box and frame(HD frames) for enough to buy a used 350 motor.
what about the license to bid? don't you have to have one? is it a pain to get and where are the auctions in the southeast? i can't seem to find any in GA.

that IS a great idea though!

-russel
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Old 07-27-2002, 04:17 PM   #7 (permalink)
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my philosophy of rig building / design:

You need to first make 3 decisions, that are not easy, and will establish the compromises that you can and will have to accept throughout the buildup.

1) What type of terrain will you run...this will dictate the tire type and size. This is primary and absoloutely critical, as it will dictate the entire rest of the rig. As far as I'm concerned, the entire rig is simply a life support system for your tires. It's all about the terrain, which means it's all about the tires. Nail this down first, or you will get lost and confused along the way.

2) Decide if you want EFI or carb. Both have their advantages and disadvantages...it's up to you. I wheeled Jeep MPFI for many years, but have recently switched to carb'd Chevy 350, and I am digging the simplicity and lack of wires.

3) Decide if you want manual or auto. Again, many advantages and disadvantages to both. It's really a personal preference thing - unless you are competing, in which case you probably need an auto, because you can;t afford to lose because you picked the worng gear - the auto allows you the almost instant wheel speed you need for the rock racing type climbs.

Once you have decided these 3 things, only then can you decide on exactly what components you need to accomplish your goals. Axle size, front drop side, gears, Xcase gears etc are all determined by what is required for the tires on the terrain you've already set.

My pic for the TOTW scenario:

1) Forget "street use" in all but the most limited sense (driving to trail, friving to beach, running to town for an ice cream with the kids etc.) - otherwise too many compromises for a decent trail rig.

2) YJ base

3) Find an old 78-79 F250 / F350. Use the 400, NP435, 205 and RCD44 front (or RCD60 if yer damn lucky). Find an NP203, and save some of the budget for an ORD doubler.

4) Find a junkyard 14bolt for the rear.

5) gear to whatever has the lower gears - the Ford or 14B you find.

6) weld up the 14bolt, Detroit in front

7) Your favourite Swampers (bias only) in 38-42" size on Rockstomper beadlocks.

8) Fuel cell, stretch WB to 103-105", SOA with Waggy or Dakota springs.

9) Full cage and some custom bumpers, skids, and rockers

10) Wait patiently to find that dream deal in the paper on a used 8274.

Guaranteed performance!
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Old 07-27-2002, 07:13 PM   #8 (permalink)
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This is pretty much how most of us in New England build our rigs. They need to handle rocks, mud, snow, and street. Our trails are not all rock and they are few and far between so the need for a rig to go 65 MPH is their.

I would have that frame be a late YJ frame and tub. Probably throw on CJ grille and call it a 7.

I would buy a mid 70s chevy 3/4 ton plow truck. Motor not a biggie as I would go efi. Look for one with a SM465 and 205 with 44front 14bolt rear. Hopefully 4.56s will be on board allready.

Next would be a 350 TBI era. Fuel injection reliability on the trail with less need for knowhow when it fails.

Bolt on some 38" area swampers and SOA on stock to 1" springs. Cut cut cut till they fit. Go much taller than that and the 65mph thing gets worse and worse.

Nate
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Old 07-28-2002, 10:17 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I agree with Nate97TJ.Find a running 3/4 ton Chevy with the 465/205 combo.Swap everything over with a SOA.Slap a lockright in the front and detriot in the rear.Throw on some 38s and wheel.Depending on the deal you get on the truck you can do it for under $5000 easy.Blazin
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Old 07-28-2002, 12:41 PM   #10 (permalink)
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well Im certainly one to speak on this subject since I've been building my jeep for a year and a half and have NEVER WHEELED IT due to lack of funds.
heres what I've done so far(many mistakes):
got screwed on an 89 YJ salvage vehicle =$2000
(basically replacing everything xcept body and frame)
got screwed on a 98 4.0L =$1500(w/shipping)
bought a 727 and had the CPS hole drilled= $500
np231 turned out to be 207 in my jeep(was swapped when salvaged) cost of new 231 =$125
kingpin dana 44 front= $400 (w/shipping)
14 bolt rear =$250
waggy 7 leaf HD springs sprung over=$400
bought friends old CV drive shafts.must be modified=$200(mods not made yet)
TJ tank and pump=$170

Im in it already over 5000(sold a few old parts and can still sell a few more) but I still need to:
Regear with spool and detriot= $1000 (if done myself)
wheels and 38's=$1200 + another $800 or so if beadlocked
wire the whole thing + ZJ guages and PDC=$200
exhaust + cat=$300(guessing?)
finally 100 misc. things=$600 for good measure

now, what I SHOULD have done:
NOT get screwed on 89 YJ=$1200
bought a busted @$$ cheby 1 ton w/good motor, tranny, tcase, axles etc...=$2000(for good measure, I get screwed a lot)
the rest of the money towards misc things + wheels and tires. this way, the axles are already geared and I already have cheap wheels. I could have been wheeling the thing by now. gears and wheels+tires cost SO MUCH [email protected] MONEY.
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Old 07-29-2002, 12:34 AM   #11 (permalink)
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YJ - Free, i actually graduated High Scholl to the suprise of my 'rents (actually much more than that but thats a long story)

NV4500 - 1,000 bought a Ranger fixed it up a bit and sold it for 3,500 'rents paid for the rest for installing windows in the house.

D44 front D60 rear - $160 got a smoking deal but not installed yet
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Old 07-29-2002, 04:57 AM   #12 (permalink)
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there was a guy out in katemcy this weekend that had a j10 pickup that he had remove the body on and buit a tube body. it had no fenders so no lift was needed. he ran junk yard 3.73's, the jeep truck v8, auto, and d20 case with 33 claws and the thing was pretty cool.
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Old 07-29-2002, 05:25 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Nate97TJ
This is pretty much how most of us in New England build our rigs. They need to handle rocks, mud, snow, and street. Our trails are not all rock and they are few and far between so the need for a rig to go 65 MPH is their.

I would have that frame be a late YJ frame and tub. Probably throw on CJ grille and call it a 7.

I would buy a mid 70s chevy 3/4 ton plow truck. Motor not a biggie as I would go efi. Look for one with a SM465 and 205 with 44front 14bolt rear. Hopefully 4.56s will be on board allready.

Next would be a 350 TBI era. Fuel injection reliability on the trail with less need for knowhow when it fails.

Bolt on some 38" area swampers and SOA on stock to 1" springs. Cut cut cut till they fit. Go much taller than that and the 65mph thing gets worse and worse.

Nate
That vehicle sounds familiar (less the 7 grill)...but I will tell you I have more than $5k in it........I have this thing for rebuilding everything before it goes into the jeep.
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Old 07-29-2002, 12:55 PM   #14 (permalink)
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what about the license to bid? don't you have to have one? is it a pain to get and where are the auctions in the southeast? i can't seem to find any in GA.

that IS a great idea though!

-russel

Public Auctions of military surplus, no license to bid, you just register as a bidder on the day of the auction. They have two or three a year in this state, don't know about your state but there are web sites that have lists of Goverment auctions world wide, do a net search. It is sometime difficult to bid on one truck but not impossible. Most times your bidding on "lots" of 3 or more trucks. The more trucks in the "lot", the less the price pre truck(most times). In most cases you can sell the front axle for more then you paid for the whole truck.

The military recently got gov approval to auction over the internet, so their stuff will likely be more expenive now that more people will be bidding on it.
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Old 07-29-2002, 03:12 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Start with a CJ/YJ Body Tub:

Grand Wagoneer
(360, TF727, NP208, D44 front, Waggie 20 Rear, D44 if lucky, springs, driveshafts)
$1000 or less

That leaves Tires, 36x12.50, used-75% tread - $600

4.56 Gears, detriot front and rear - $1200

Warn Premium Hubs - $100

Tube for Cage - $400

SOA w/ frame extension - $75 in misc scrap steel

retube/balance driveshafts - $250

Winch 8274 Used - $650?

That leaves about $350 for misc stuff.... did I miss anything?



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Old 07-30-2002, 10:09 AM   #16 (permalink)
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For those of you who like the CUCV idea this is what they come with:

6.2L deisel, T400, NP208, 4.56, Dana60/14bolt, LS in front - Detroit in rear

Just make it a cab truck. No lift. 39.5" boggers.
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Old 07-30-2002, 04:27 PM   #17 (permalink)
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The last two we got (cucv) had sm465's and 205's.
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Old 07-30-2002, 06:38 PM   #18 (permalink)
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When I first started building my flatfender the idea was to do it on a budget. I collected parts for a while like the axles and tranny that were on the cheap side. I also bought a 76 c10 2x4 for $350 and used the motor and other various small things and parted the rest. I made alot of money by doing this and wound up with a free engine and the edelbrock manifold and other performance stuff was paid for with profits. I also drove out of state to buy my t-case and axle because it was about $600 cheaper then I could have got it here. I also fabricated my own bumpers and suspension components (SR & leaf spring hangers) out of mostly scrap metal that I had. Once it is all done (at least stage 1 ) I will probably have almost 5k into it which is a little higher than I wanted but this is a ground up build up.
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Old 07-31-2002, 02:33 AM   #19 (permalink)
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ok.. first off.. he already said you had a frame and body.. hello.. thats the hard stuff right there... and your still going to give me 5k to work with.. ok.. heres the deal..

get a wagoneer 1980+... $1000
1. 360
2. tf727
3. d44 front/AMC20HD or D44 rear.. narrow enough to be street legal.. strong enough for 35" mud tires...
4. leaf springs
5. steering system
6. radiator
7. rims

now.. put the springs in.. SOA.. with a shackle reversal.. $40 for the steel... weld the diffs.. get some plastic racing seats.. $150

weld up some exhaust... $40 for the pipe.. $26 for glass packs..

set of 4... 35"x12.5 mud tires.... $600

steal for roll cage.. $80

tach..$75... h2o guage.. $35.... oil pressure guage..$35

spark-o-matic radio with speakers... $100...

seat belts... $100..

that comes to about $2300... now you still need driveshafts.. and you could quite possibly get a good transfer case.. and have enough left for some beer.. for the buds to help you spray paint the sucker..
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Old 07-31-2002, 05:31 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by olivesman


what about the license to bid? don't you have to have one? is it a pain to get and where are the auctions in the southeast? i can't seem to find any in GA.

that IS a great idea though!

-russel
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Old 08-05-2002, 10:09 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
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steal for roll cage.. $80
So what are you gonna steal so you can afford your roll cage???


Here's my $.03 USD:
(Assuming a 91-95 YJ base keeping 4.0, AX-15, 231.)

HD SYE/CV kit ($400) and 4 to 1 kit for 231 ($1K

SOA Waggy 44s (Detroit in back Ox in front) re-built and re-geared to 4.56:1 ($2K-$3k I suppose, depending on how much you do yourself)

Use money left over for beer.

HTH,
Jake
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Old 08-05-2002, 06:13 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Hey, this sounds like my project

Item Description Location of Origin Amount
Vehicle 1962 Willy's CJ-5 Monticello, UT $800.00
Axles Waggy D44, 4.09:1 Carson City, NV $200.00
Trans SM465 Estancia, NM $75.00
Shifter Truck Salvage ABQ, NM $45.00
Bellhous same same $65.00
Engine 92 4.3L, w/comp Auto Recyclers $818.11
Flywheel cltuch-type With reground$95.01
Eng.Wiring Harness $105.56
Brake caliper Pull 'N Save, Aurora, CO $13.98
Diff Cover, with steel fill plug PNS $16.51
T-case D-20/D-18 Eric Ruhl, in Co. $-
Master Cylinder Eric Ruhl, in Co. $-
Pedal Assy ABQ, NM $195.29
Total so far $2429.46

And I have more yet, but my goal is 5K. I say, location, location location. And I am making most of my stuff, like frame, etc.
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Old 05-08-2007, 07:22 PM   #23 (permalink)
 
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This don't seem to be a newbie info page. I am just trying to find out about what front lockers are good.
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Old 05-08-2007, 07:50 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Just including for the heck of it the jeep its self

81 CJ running with 6cyl 3sp, dana 20, came with sm465, 205, 10bolt/12bolt

03 Chevy 5.3, with wiring, accessories, computer $850
03 4L60E, junkyard find, $200
4L60E to 231 adaptor, $40
Trade 205 for Dana 300
Box4Rocks doubler, $420
Flat tops for 10 bolt, $100, no longer needed
RCD44/D60 junkyard find $300
4 XJ springs $100
4 38in michelin xlz military tires, new $200
traded 258 6cyl for Air compressor/tank
leftover fuel pump from hot rod project
Trade D30/AMC 20 for fab work for bumpers, leaf spring mounts, motor mounts, ect ect.

Total so far $2200

This is where Im at right this moment. Just got to get the motor mounts done, leaf spring mounts done. Going to leave whatever gears are in the 44/60(havent checked yet), weld the rear, and wheel the piss out of it and fix it as I go. Ive got a lot left, but have a lot of money left per the $5k balance. Still have lots of stuff to trade/sell as well.
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Old 05-09-2007, 09:04 AM   #25 (permalink)
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its funny I read this and I can't deny the prices here and I usually put a similar budget together and it just seems to always end up being a lot more.

How are you guys cutting your metal? seems like its $50 bucks a trip
How are you welding it? seems like its $50 bucks a trip
Are you using bolts? seems like its $50 bucks a trip
Painting anything? Hammerites not cheap
How about fluids?

I see a few in this thread who have done it but it always seems like the paper budget is much less then the real budget

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