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Old 03-22-2019, 10:44 AM   #226 (permalink)
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Everything looks pretty danged good.
Thanks!
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Old 03-22-2019, 10:44 AM   #227 (permalink)
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I swung by the local seamstress to get the roll cage padding covers modified. She wasn't confident that her poly string will hold up but I figure the padding is such a low wear area that if the string holds up on pants and shirts it'd hold up the padding. Time will tell. She'll be shortening the padding on the A to B pillar bars and adding a zipper and velcro to the B pillar spreader.





The windshield frame is painted and while I had the paint out I touched up a few other spots.





I also wiped down the interior of the Jeep and washed the seats again since some fiberglass got on them while welding the cage. Once they dry out I'll be covering the interior since I am done in there for a while.

For the khaki TJ I am putting on rear bumper braces to help spread the load from the rear shackles into the frame. So I decided to do an A/B test on paint to see which holds up better.

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Old 04-01-2019, 09:44 PM   #228 (permalink)
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The windshield frame is back in place. Once the build is done I will have somebody replace the glass. I used Honda Shin-Etsu grease on the weather seal.



The steering was a big pain. It's consists of a bunch of trial and error. You move one thing and you must adjust everything else, and then do an alignment.

I finally dialed in the steering gear to steering stop ratio I previously had mentioned I was working on late last year. The more perfect it is the less wear you'll have on rod ends, ball joints, and links. As I started to get it more dialed in I kept working towards finalizing more parts and firming them up with more welds and more finished of a design. Once everything starts getting firm with less play the ratio needed to be changed again slightly.

I am running 1/8" of toe-out and about 6.5* of caster.

At this point, I can stick a business card behind the physical steering stops on the knuckles and hold it in place with the steering wheel. As soon as the steering wheel is backed off at all, the card drops.

This is the mocked up pitman arm I made. I would not drive on it aside from a couple of feet in a straight line across the yard or onto a trailer. Once I have a final pitman arm made I can still adjust and correct the plate on the knuckle slightly if it changes my ratio at all.



I clearanced the motor mount for the UCA and notched the frame for the drag link and track bar. This is where the plasma comes in handy! When I pull the axle out later to finalize and paint it I will also plate these areas.



It's nice to see that the frame is solid with no rust since I reused this section of frame.

The lower radiator hose had to be moved out of the way of the UCA. This was simply done by rotating it.



There is 6.5" of up travel in the front. The limitation is the 37" tires on the highline fenders:



There's not many exact measurements that I can give that would be helpful here. It comes down to following the philosophy and guidelines. What's probably more helpful is looking through the detailed pictures. Once I pull the axle for final welding I will also be replacing some of the mockup brackets I used for final bracketry.

The track bar and drag link are parallel:



The track bar is at the same angle as the drag link for no bump steer:


The UCA bolt had to be flipped to stay off the AC pump:


The frame side track bar backet is angled off the frame to keep the heim joint straight at ride height:


The 3/4" 8" bolts are the perfect length for the steering arms:
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Old 04-01-2019, 09:45 PM   #229 (permalink)
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Old 04-02-2019, 06:21 PM   #230 (permalink)
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Looking good! Just a suggestion, but you may want to think about how you can reinforce the frame side track bar bracket. With your current design there's not a lot of weld material holding it to the frame and there can be a ton of stress on that junction. There's been several people that I know who have ripped it right off the frame.

I'm assuming you are going to box the two "ears" together, but you don't have a lot of material om the vertical side of the frame and not sure if you are planning to scab something across the top of those two little fingers?

Here's a picture of mine for example. It welds across the entire underside and then goes up about 3/4's of the way up the vertical side and across the top.

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Old 04-02-2019, 08:56 PM   #231 (permalink)
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Looking good! Just a suggestion, but you may want to think about how you can reinforce the frame side track bar bracket. With your current design there's not a lot of weld material holding it to the frame and there can be a ton of stress on that junction. There's been several people that I know who have ripped it right off the frame.

I'm assuming you are going to box the two "ears" together, but you don't have a lot of material om the vertical side of the frame and not sure if you are planning to scab something across the top of those two little fingers?

Here's a picture of mine for example. It welds across the entire underside and then goes up about 3/4's of the way up the vertical side and across the top.

There are for sure still some mockup brackets left in these pictures that will be replaced, gusseted, welded, and tied in. That will be done once the axle is pulled. The frame side track bar bracket is final except for welding. I think it'll be just the right amount of strength and nothing more. It's a box once the 3/4" bolt is torqued. I will be welding both sides of each backet to the frame to increase surface area onto the frame.
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Old 04-03-2019, 09:43 AM   #232 (permalink)
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To align the front axle I started by centering it. To do so, I marked the center point on the front bumper and marked the center point behind the rear wheels (I previously aligned the rear axle). I then measured and marked the center of the front axle. I placed a laser in front of the Jeep and aligned the laser to the front bumper mark and rear axle mark, I then used the track bar to align the front axle to it's center at ride height.



Next I toed the knuckles to 1/8" toe-out (yes, this is different than you would do on a stock TJ) by clamping angle to the rotors and measuring across front and rear -- 37" apart. I moved the angle back and pointed the knuckles straight using measurements from the frame of the Jeep.



Finally I used a bubble level on the steering wheel and adjusted the drag link to get the steering wheel straight. My concrete is level in this spot, or else I would have to account for the slope.

After every change to the linkages I went through this process and then cycled the steering. Rinse and repeat.
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Old 04-05-2019, 09:35 AM   #233 (permalink)
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Wow. Great progress and a great write-up. Learned quite a bit just reading through this....
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Old 04-08-2019, 01:08 PM   #234 (permalink)
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Wow. Great progress and a great write-up. Learned quite a bit just reading through this....
Awesome!
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Old 04-08-2019, 01:09 PM   #235 (permalink)
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To fit the hydro-assist cylinder in I had to get the Currie mini truss mounts off the axle tube. Took some grinding and hammering:





I drove down to the "big city" and picked up a 20-ton shop press from Harbor Freight. What should have been a 30-45 minute setup ended up taking multiple trips to Harbor Freight to get one that worked.

While the axle was out, I took apart the steering linkages to inner-sleeve them with solid round (more on this in my next post) and for fun I threw a scrap of 1" 6061-T6 solid round bar into the press to watch it deflect and spring back into shape... Only it remained bent... I'm pretty sure the steel yard sold me 6061 (or some other aluminum) without heat treatment even though I asked the guy multiple times that it was INDEED heat treated T6. At this point it's been a nearly a year since I bought it and it's my word against his on what I bought. I hate buying local these days... there's little to no benefit. Anyone have project ideas for this mystery aluminum (use as ingots in a forge?)?

So not much Jeep work got done on this weekend.

Until I get real 6061-T6 in, the front axle is in a holding pattern. I did pick up an oxy-acetylene torch and bottles so at least I have that going for me.
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:55 PM   #236 (permalink)
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The new metal came in! I don't know for sure what the old stuff is, but the new stuff acts like I'd expect.

SpeedyMetals messed up half my order and sent some steel instead of aluminum, but everything critical to the steering is here. Xometry is well worth checking out for their prices. They also have a lot of coupons so be sure to search for those. https://www.xometry.com/supplies/materials
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Old 06-10-2019, 11:23 AM   #237 (permalink)
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At the end of April we went camping in the khaki TJ up in MI at Drummond Island.



Unfortunately the locker pump sucked in water earlier in the day and the lockers went out right as I was coming up to this ledge climb:



(If you can't see the video, click here: https://jeep.yellowgoo.com/khaki_tj/drummond-2019.webm)

Getting back to the build thread, since I have the toe set, I finalized the tie rod to firm it up, the tie rod is made from 1.25" DOM and inner-sleeved with heat treated 1" 4140 solid round bar:



Innersleeving has 2 benefits: 1) the tubing won't dent and fail. And 2) the tubing gets strengthened.

Each end got 3 rosette welds to the threaded rod end insert, and welded all the way around.





The heat from the welding warped the threads slightly so I chased them with a tap. Some of the taps were difficult to find especially at reasonable prices for only chasing threads. Here's the part numbers and sources of the taps: The right hand 7/8"14 tap I used is Drill America DWT54892, the left hand 7/8"-14 tap is Drill America DWT60891.



That's all there is to the tierod.
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Old 06-10-2019, 11:50 AM   #238 (permalink)
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I've been asked a couple of times if the UCA mount is too far forward, so I aligned a laser from the center of one side of the axle tube to the other. The joint is dead center on the top of the housing and angled to point straight at the frame side mount at ride height:

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Old 06-10-2019, 12:43 PM   #239 (permalink)
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I ordered a blank Saginaw flat pitman arm from PartsMike:

1PM536FPA PITMAN ARM - Flat undrilled - 5.25" - 7"

Also sold by PSC as PA700: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pfn-pa700

I then drilled and reamed it to 4.929" center to center to match my mock up. To remind you from one of my earlier posts, DO NOT use my measurements as any sort of guide for yours. Make mockups and figure out the length you need, there's no way to short cut this frustrating process and still get perfect results. For reaming, you really need a drill press in order to get it straight, so I'd put that fully on the shopping list before starting this project if you don't have one already -- it'll also make drilling all of the many holes so much easier. I'm using the XKUT #5952 (1-1/2" per foot) reamer I mentioned a few posts ago to match the taper of the TREs.

The first mark on the arm is at 4.9", second is the 4.929" I went with:





I kept checking the depth of the taper by tightening down the TRE. I wanted just enough so that a cotter pin will slide through the castle and no more.



Somehow mine ended up perfectly clocked on the sector shaft (what are the chances?) but It's highly possible that the pitman arm wasn't going to be clocked on the splines the same as my mockup. If that was the case, I can either bend the arm or reposition the TRE on the upper steering arm slightly to correct. A custom waterjet arm with press fit splines is also be an option if those routes don't pan out. I had bought the shop press and oxy acetylene setup just for this moment! I'll have to come up with an excuse to get my flame on another time.

The arm is thicker than my mockup arm was so the castle nut on the top needed additional clearance from the frame. I'll clean up my notch and be plating over it at a later step.

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Old 06-13-2019, 08:04 PM   #240 (permalink)
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I copied the final mockup steering arm plate over to 3/4" steel plate and drilled and reamed it. I'll be cleaning this plate up later and will weld it to the upper steering arm, but first I need to finalize my steering a little more before I want to commit.





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Old 06-13-2019, 08:20 PM   #241 (permalink)
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The last part of the steering to go in is hydro-assist. To turn the big 37s offroad and keep the power steering pump in good shape, hydro-assist is mandatory.

Here's my parts list:
* PSC cylinder with 1.75" bore x 10" stroke (SC2216) <--- edit: I changed the cylinder out to a 1.75" bore x 8" stroke (SC2201)
* Female 3/4"x3/4" rod end (REXFR12)
* Male 3/4"x5/8" rod end (REXMR10-12)
* Two 3/4" jam nuts (FSNJ-3/4-16RH or FKB-SJNR12)
* And two mounting tabs (MB01)

I wanted protection for the cylinder from trail hazards so I placed it above the tierod as high as I could. This way the tierod will also act as a bumper for it. Additionally by attaching to the knuckle steering arm bolt, compared to attaching one end to the tierod, there is no dead spot roll before the HA starts to push/pull.

Just like how the steering gear stops need to hit exactly when the knuckle steering stops touch, so does the cylinder. The cylinder is positioned so that the shaft is fully compressed during a left turn -- this determines it's lateral position on the axle. When the wheels are pointed straight, the cylinder is level -- this determines it's height on the axle. When the axle is in a full right turn it needs to not hit the TRE threads or nut. I kept moving it down a little at a time until it cleared.



Full right turn clearance on TRE threads and nut:



To stop the cylinder from continuing to push on a right hand turn and busting the ball joints and other components, I need to destroked it by marking and measuring the total length of the shaft less the used length of shaft and cut a spacer to that length and placed it into the cylinder.

While measuring mine for destroking I realized that I'd need just over a 2.5" spacer with my 10" cylinder. So instead of using such a large spacer, I ordered a 8" cylinder and will only have to destroke it by 0.5". (PM me if you need a 10" cylinder SC2216)

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Old 06-17-2019, 04:43 AM   #242 (permalink)
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you keep saying your running an 1/8' of toe out... one would assume that would make the steering overly responsive and darty, the steering wheel would still center but not like a normal vehicle. offroad manners would be the same ish. any reason why you are doing it this way? i've only setup a few dozen jeeps and a few hundred busses and never have i intentionally went toe out.
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Old 06-17-2019, 09:27 AM   #243 (permalink)
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you keep saying your running an 1/8' of toe out... one would assume that would make the steering overly responsive and darty, the steering wheel would still center but not like a normal vehicle. offroad manners would be the same ish. any reason why you are doing it this way? i've only setup a few dozen jeeps and a few hundred busses and never have i intentionally went toe out.
I've been wondering how long until somebody says something.

This is how it was explained to me: Ackermann will not be able to be achieved and steering will be darty. As a solution, the toe-out is what was found to work well through trial and error by another Jeep builder with the crossover steering geometry (such as what I have setup). There is added caster angle and the toe-out. The down side is slow response when not on center. Additionally, this has been verified by an engineer at TRD.

There's a lot to steering that I don't understand, and I do admit I don't fully understand the toe-out either. The guy who trial and errored this solution builds Jeeps for offroad but if something isn't predictable on the street he throws it away and goes back to the drawing board. Every suggestion he's ever given me has been spot on so I trust him on this steering. He did ask that I talk to him after I get the Jeep driving on the road "to make the the steering tolerable" so I will post up any adjustments I make once I get to that point.

Keep the questions coming.
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Old 06-17-2019, 06:12 PM   #244 (permalink)
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you keep saying your running an 1/8' of toe out... one would assume that would make the steering overly responsive and darty, the steering wheel would still center but not like a normal vehicle. offroad manners would be the same ish. any reason why you are doing it this way? i've only setup a few dozen jeeps and a few hundred busses and never have i intentionally went toe out.
Why would you assume this? In my thinking, if it's toed out and your driving straight, both tires will be scrubbing slightly. When you turn left, the truck will lean right. Since the right tire will be slightly turned right, it should slow or lesson the left turn. That would make it less responsive or darty.

I'm not suggesting toe out is good (I don't know), but I don't see your logic.
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Old 06-18-2019, 05:18 AM   #245 (permalink)
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Why would you assume this? In my thinking, if it's toed out and your driving straight, both tires will be scrubbing slightly. When you turn left, the truck will lean right. Since the right tire will be slightly turned right, it should slow or lesson the left turn. That would make it less responsive or darty.

I'm not suggesting toe out is good (I don't know), but I don't see your logic.
I dont really have to assume sorry, It makes 1 ton TRE steering very darty especially over 55mph. touch the wheel or hit a bump and it changes lanes. my brain also says it should be the same just inverse of toe in but its the caster that causes the problem. with the C's leaned back the steering is really wonky Toe out and the tires will hop on tight corners in parkinglots. i've got 22 fleet F550's stretched to 35' and im doing TRE's and an alignment on one right now. Left front had minimal play and toe was basically 0. Bus felt nuts driving in at 70mph. Ill throw between an 1/8" and a 1/4" in it and it will drive fine and not cut tires (any more or less and they flat spot tires quickly).
Im interested in how this build feels on the street keep us posted sir

Last edited by Tacedaddy; 06-18-2019 at 05:21 AM.
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Old 06-18-2019, 07:42 AM   #246 (permalink)
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I dont really have to assume sorry, It makes 1 ton TRE steering very darty especially over 55mph. touch the wheel or hit a bump and it changes lanes. my brain also says it should be the same just inverse of toe in but its the caster that causes the problem. with the C's leaned back the steering is really wonky Toe out and the tires will hop on tight corners in parkinglots. i've got 22 fleet F550's stretched to 35' and im doing TRE's and an alignment on one right now. Left front had minimal play and toe was basically 0. Bus felt nuts driving in at 70mph. Ill throw between an 1/8" and a 1/4" in it and it will drive fine and not cut tires (any more or less and they flat spot tires quickly).
Im interested in how this build feels on the street keep us posted sir
The explanation I've always heard is the tread rolls out slightly when going down the road. So if it's toed in, the hope is the tread will roll out just perfect to be straight. Not sure why the tread rolls out, maybe combination of caster and camber.

I have experimented with differnt amounts of toe in. It seems like the bigger the sidewall, the more toe in is better. That would support the above explanation.

In my logic, it makes sense that when you hit a bump on one side, that wheel try's to go back, (taking up all the play in the steering) so if it's toed in, it just goes straight. Of course, the other wheel will turn in more, but it doesn't have as much traction as the bump wheel. Obviously, if this is true, toed out is no good.

I have never experimented with toe out.
I'm courious how this drives too.
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:28 AM   #247 (permalink)
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Im interested in how this build feels on the street keep us posted sir
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I'm courious how this drives too.
I will keep you in the loop. Once my build is complete my plan is to drive out (not trailer) to the west coast for some wheeling. I'm not going to accept anything less than great handling that is predictable so we'll get to the bottom of this!
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Old 06-19-2019, 03:01 PM   #248 (permalink)
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Set the caster at 6-8 degrees back and the toe at 0-1/8" in, this will give you good return to center and road feel.
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Old 06-28-2019, 09:27 AM   #249 (permalink)
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Great build!
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Old 07-08-2019, 09:21 PM   #250 (permalink)
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There was a shipping mix up where the new cylinder was shipped to somebody else and then once I finally received it I realized that I had overlooked the fact that the rod end was a different size thread into the body so I had to order a 5/8x5/8 rod end (part number REXMR10) and jam nut (SJNR10-1). So that took yet another week to come in. After my build is completed I will be creating an entire list of wear parts like this and purchasing some to have on my shelf so I don't have to wait.



I installed the 8" cylinder using the same steps I listed in my last post. So I won't bore you guys with the details.

I marked and measured the shaft to verify that I needed to destroke by my estimated 0.5". To open the cylinder I used a gland tool (OTC 7463). I did have to chuck the pins in the drill press and turn them down to 3/16" to fit.



Be careful of the seals when opening the cylinder so that you don't pull the shaft threads through the end cap; do that and it'll have to be rebuilt.



For the spacer I actually bought one made of aluminum the perfect size from McMaster-Carr. Had I not already needed to place an order for bolts, the other option is to make your own by stacking up homemade aluminum washers. Using a steel spacer, such as DOM tubing or steel washers, could end up scratching up the shaft and tearing seals over time.



To verify my stops I turned the steering all the way driver's (left) and bolted in the cylinder fully collapsed. And repeated for a right turn with the cylinder fully extended. Both ways the cylinder bolted right in.
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