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Old 03-18-2006, 07:10 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Auto trans and t-case suggestions

Ok I am using a 76 wagoneer frame and running gears. 360 with th400 and quadra-trac. I am not really a quadra-trac fan so I want to use some other type of t-case. Does anything bolt up to th400 or do I need to try different transmission?
I have found a chrystler 727 transmission and a np 219 t-case for a really good price. So do I try to do something with quadra-trac, ditch the quadra-trac and use different t-case? Go with the 727 and np219 or go in totally different direction? I appreciate any suggestions? Thanks

Last edited by 83cherokee; 03-18-2006 at 07:12 PM.
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Old 03-18-2006, 07:18 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I believe you can swap the output shaft on the 400 and run a dana 20 T case
The 727 219 will be driver side drop, the 76 drivetrain is a passenger side drop
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Old 03-18-2006, 07:24 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Too bad your in SD, I just swapped out an AMC th400/D300 combo...
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Old 03-18-2006, 08:17 PM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Thats always my luck fishotro.
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Old 03-19-2006, 03:23 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 83cherokee
Ok I am using a 76 wagoneer frame and running gears. 360 with th400 and quadra-trac. I am not really a quadra-trac fan so I want to use some other type of t-case. Does anything bolt up to th400 or do I need to try different transmission?
I have found a chrystler 727 transmission and a np 219 t-case for a really good price. So do I try to do something with quadra-trac, ditch the quadra-trac and use different t-case? Go with the 727 and np219 or go in totally different direction? I appreciate any suggestions? Thanks

On a 76, you have a passenger drop on your front 44. The only problem with using any case mated with a TF727 is that they are all driver side drop fronts. You would have to get a new front axle. If you were to get a new axle, I would suggest a NP208 t-case over a 219. [IMO] Also with these cases, the rear output if for a centered differental. You should have a passenger offset rear 44. If you were to put one of the newer cases, it would make rear upgrades a little easier, being that it is a bitch to find rear offset axles.

Now, the quadratrac case really isn't all that bad, regular maintance and care of the case [esp. the vaccum lines], should yeild you good results. I dont know if you have a low range quadratrac unit, but the low is decent- 2.67:1 if I recall.

So in the end, your options would be to:
1. Swap in a dana 300, with changing the TH400 output shaft
2. Swap in a dana 20, with changing output shaft
3. Install a low range unit [if you dont have one], which is bolt on
4. Or do something crazy!

I dont know if you have seen or heard about it, but you can find everything you need to know about fullsized jeeps at www.ifsja.com which is the International Full Size Jeep Association. Im a mamber there, with the same name. Hope ive helped you out!

Theo
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Old 03-19-2006, 03:37 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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That has helped tons. I was look at me cherokee earlier and your right about the passanger drop. I have heard so many unhappy people with quadra-trac. I think they are unhappy with them when they use lockers. I have front and rear ARB lockers on my cherokee and quadra-trac works fine. But when they use spools or anything they tell me they don't last long. I can't afford to put ARB on this project.
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Old 03-19-2006, 04:13 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Ive never had and problems. I have a locked front, with a posi-rear. Ive only had problems with vaccum lines. This is my jeep, an old pic tho


Last edited by Jeeper Creeper; 03-19-2006 at 04:14 PM. Reason: error
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Old 03-19-2006, 05:44 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeper Creeper
On a 76, you have a passenger drop on your front 44. The only problem with using any case mated with a TF727 is that they are all driver side drop fronts. You would have to get a new front axle. If you were to get a new axle, I would suggest a NP208 t-case over a 219. [IMO] Also with these cases, the rear output if for a centered differental. You should have a passenger offset rear 44. If you were to put one of the newer cases, it would make rear upgrades a little easier, being that it is a bitch to find rear offset axles.

Now, the quadratrac case really isn't all that bad, regular maintance and care of the case [esp. the vaccum lines], should yeild you good results. I dont know if you have a low range quadratrac unit, but the low is decent- 2.67:1 if I recall.

So in the end, your options would be to:
1. Swap in a dana 300, with changing the TH400 output shaft
2. Swap in a dana 20, with changing output shaft
3. Install a low range unit [if you dont have one], which is bolt on
4. Or do something crazy!

I dont know if you have seen or heard about it, but you can find everything you need to know about fullsized jeeps at www.ifsja.com which is the International Full Size Jeep Association. Im a mamber there, with the same name. Hope ive helped you out!

Theo
Couldn't he find a TF727 from a Scout with the AMC 6 cylinder engine? I'm not sure how rare that combo is, but it would give him pretty much everything he wants.
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Old 03-19-2006, 05:51 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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That could work, but im not to familar with the scout drivelines other than that are similar to the FSJs
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Old 03-19-2006, 09:52 PM   #10 (permalink)
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The bolt patterns on the rear of the AMC TH400 and the chevy TH400 are identical. The issue is the AMC TH400 has a super-long output shaft for the quadra-trac. If you swap output shafts, you can attach any t-case that will bolt to a chevy TH400 onto your AMC unit (and if you count aftermarket adapters, you can mate just about anything to it). Unfortunately, without swapping output shafts... NOTHING will bolt up to your tranny except the quadra-trac. (not that the q-trac is a bad unit, but you say you want to swap it out).
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Last edited by HsOffRoad; 03-19-2006 at 09:53 PM.
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Old 03-20-2006, 10:51 AM   #11 (permalink)
 
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If I keep the quadra-trac what is the best way to go with lockers. Don't want to break the bank.
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Old 03-20-2006, 11:04 PM   #12 (permalink)
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This is long, but it should help answer your questions.

I've used q-tracs many times in serious off-road vehicles. They are nice because they are dual offset and they lower the rear driveline angle a good bit in a short wheelbase vehicle. The downsides are that the chains wear out, they used different spline output shafts in different years (some of which are difficult to get good yokes for), they had a goofy 4wd engagement system, and some of them had no low range.

What I always do to solve the afforementioned problems is as follows:
First, I open the cases up & replace the chain. While I'm in there I weld the internal differential unit so that it's constantly locked. I also lock the reduction unit in 4-wheel low and build a bracket to hold the shift mechanism in place. The output shafts all interchange between units to solve the yoke problems. If the unit dosen't have low range, it's as simple as unbolting the plate on the back and bolting on the low range unit from any other q-trac with one. Jeep also makes a special fluid for the q-trac. Many people just use ATF, and it works... but supposedly the special stuff is correct and provides smoother operation & longer life.

Welding the center diff & locking the reduction unit in low range makes the q-trac off-road only, but that's pretty much all I build. You could retain stock operation of the t-case for normal everyday use if you so desired, but it's very rare to find a used one one that works properly - they all are all old and most have long since malfunctioned. The unit itself is quite strong, and works very well. I wouldn't junk it just on the fear it is going to break. Make sure you skid plate the unit well, because it is aluminum & will crack if you whack it on a rock.

As for your locker question, if you're running reasonable tires in the 33" or smaller range, lock-rights will work just fine. I have yet to break a unit using stock axleshafts, even with the u-joints welded to the axleshafts (which is beasically a requirement with a front locker & serious use) the shaft will break before the lockright. If you go to 4340 shafts & ctms the lock-right will become your weak link. To keep costs down I strongly advise keeping your tire size at or below 33". You'll find that a vehicle that has lockers in both ends with 33" tires will go places a vehicle with open diffs & 40's would never dream of going. The difference with the lockers really is night & day.

If you want to save money, you can weld up the rear axle instead of buying a locker. It's not as bad as everyone says. Yes, the tires will chirp a bit in turns, yes they wear a faster than with an open diff, and yes it will get sideways if you stand ont he gas going into a corner in the rain. A rear locker will do all the same things, but it costs more and is less predictable. Air the tires up to around 30-35lbs and drive with a bit of discretion.

The front axle needs a locker due to the compounded forces created by the different paths the tires need to follow while steering. Welding the front axle will just result in parts breakage.

Hope all this helps you.
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Last edited by HsOffRoad; 03-20-2006 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 03-21-2006, 12:18 AM   #13 (permalink)
 
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I i have all that stuff welded up am I looking for problems in the t-case for pulling it around to get to different places. Not really worried about rear diff but with quadra-trac I can't just throw it in neutral when I pull rig down the highway.
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