Nonextreme, cheap CJ->FSJ spring lift prelim results: mixed - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > Brand Specific Tech > Jeep - Non Hardcore
Notices

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-23-2006, 12:25 PM   #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Member # 9614
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 21,239
Nonextreme, cheap CJ->FSJ spring lift prelim results: mixed

Having grown tired of my flex-resistant add-a-leaf springs, and having completely trashed the housing of my rear NT axle, I recently undertook a minor rebuilding with a primary goal of doing everything as cheaply as possible, while still making improvements.

Prior setup was essentially stock, with 1.5" lift shackles and add-a-leafs, totalling about 3" over stock. Handling, flex, ride, and stability (especially on sidehill situations) were fairly pathetic, but it worked. Amongst the scariest aspects were the near vertical resting shackle angles resulting from the lift shackles. Luckily, the springs were never flexy enough to allow them to invert. Goals set out on the rebuild were to improve these four dimensions, basically by widening stance, lengthening wheelbase, improving shackle angles, and slightly lowering height on softer springs.

Parts gathered to this end were two five-leaf waggy front spring packs, two seven-leaf waggy front spring packs, a pair of boomerang anti-kickback shackles, a pair of widetrack CJ axles, and assorted bushings and bolts as needed. Sizing up the waggy leafs vs. a set of stock CJ leafs, it appeared they would give about a 2.5" lift over stock (SUA) and allow for a total 4" wheelbase increase with improved ride and flex. The boomerang shackles would prevent shackle inversion and spring bending up front, and also be longer and wider to accomodate the longer, wider springs. The lift shackles I had in the rear could be reused, winding up at a near stock resting shackle angle (~45*) with the longer springs. The CJ widetracks were an overall cheaper and more timely solution than upgrading to D44's or larger, as I already had well-geared and locked narrow track axles from which to scavenge guts. They'd also place the wheels out a couple inches, but not too far. Larger axles could be built up as time and money allowed, but I wanted to get wheeling again.

There were few issues in fitment:
1. Driveshafts had to be resized, or longer ones found (expected)
2. Stock front shackle hangers were retained, with 1/4" steel spacers added on each side for the wider shackle
3. 11" brakes on the M20 were re-used, and needed some bracket modification to get the ebrake cables to fit
4. Moving the front axle forward just barely caused the draglink and tie rod to want to occupy the same space at full stuff. Solution was to flip the drag link to the top of the pitman and steering knuckle using Goferit's inserts.


Anyway...

Before






After






As you can see, definitely wider, a little longer, and better shackle angles. It's definitely softer and flexier, as I can rock the CJ by hand whereas before, it would remain motionless (without shocks, in both cases). That's the good.

The rear seems to be at about the same height, at least with no weight.

The front, however, seems to have dropped much more than I'd planned. The bumper is around 21-22", which considering the 34" tires is maybe only an inch lift, if that. Front fenderwell clearance (or lack thereof) reinforces this estimation. The springs I used did not seem nearly that sagged in the front of the waggy from which I parted them, despite it having the same motor and at least enough sheetmetal to match the weight of the winch. Worse yet, the passenger side spring sags about an inch more.

It does seem to be a weight issue with the springs. I noted that with the addition of another 200# or so in the back, the rear bumper will drop about an inch and a half.

I'm a little surprised since I'd expected the rear 5-leaf springs to sag much more, since they were from an older vehicle with more mileage and "looked" flatter.

After a short trial period to see how these types of springs perform, I may either add a leaf to these packs or replace them with new, unsagged springs or (money permitting) a 2" lift waggy spring.
__________________
Choose Life. Preferably Cinnamon.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
fullygruntled is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-11-2017, 09:24 PM   #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Member # 661354
Posts: 7
11 years..

Trying to bring this tread back from the depths..

Any chance that you still have this rig and could update the pictures? I am trying to achieve basically the same as you did but only on the rear of my CJ. I think I need to stretch it 2" to be able to clear my 36's with 4" lift SUA. Any help?
SpikesCJ7 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Old 03-12-2017, 01:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
Snooty Poser
 
BeatCJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Member # 83100
Location: SW Washington State, NO NOT DC!
Posts: 1,130
Fullygruntled hasn't been here in almost a year, probably another victim of the "Great Reset of 2016".
__________________
When holding a cat by the tail, you will learn things that cannot be discovered any other way

Quote:
Originally Posted by PONY_DRIVER
The older I get the more I realize mayhem is for young people who don't have to get up and go to work in the morning.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
BeatCJ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-12-2017, 11:39 PM   #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Member # 661354
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatCJ View Post
Fullygruntled hasn't been here in almost a year, probably another victim of the "Great Reset of 2016".
Dang! Hopefully someone else will see this and bring shed more light to this topic specifically for a CJ7
SpikesCJ7 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-13-2017, 10:41 AM   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Member # 712810
Posts: 35
Nonextreme, cheap CJ->FSJ spring lift prelim results: mixed

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpikesCJ7 View Post
Trying to bring this tread back from the depths..



Any chance that you still have this rig and could update the pictures? I am trying to achieve basically the same as you did but only on the rear of my CJ. I think I need to stretch it 2" to be able to clear my 36's with 4" lift SUA. Any help?


A good place to look for this would be on the Willys forum, specifically the Rango Build by Mieser. He stuffed 36s under his MB with Practically no lift over stock.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last edited by MitsuJpr; 03-13-2017 at 07:41 PM.
MitsuJpr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-13-2017, 07:34 PM   #6 (permalink)
CSP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Member # 1533
Location: Parker, CO
Posts: 4,469
I wouldn't consider anything to be the same on an MB as a CJ7, assuming SpikesCJ7 is actually asking about a CJ7 since it wasn't specified.

Pushing the rear axle back is going to create interference at the back of the wheel opening and with the gas tank.
CSP is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-13-2017, 07:38 PM   #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Member # 712810
Posts: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSP View Post
I wouldn't consider anything to be the same on an MB as a CJ7, assuming SpikesCJ7 is actually asking about a CJ7 since it wasn't specified.



Pushing the rear axle back is going to create interference at the back of the wheel opening and with the gas tank.

I was mainly referring to more on the suspension side of things with the MB reference than the gas tank/body issues.

I completely spaced about the gas tank under the body possibly interfering.
And with any wheelbase stretch, I would assume that the wheel opening needing modified would be common knowledge.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
MitsuJpr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-14-2017, 12:21 AM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Member # 661354
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSP View Post
I wouldn't consider anything to be the same on an MB as a CJ7, assuming SpikesCJ7 is actually asking about a CJ7 since it wasn't specified.

Pushing the rear axle back is going to create interference at the back of the wheel opening and with the gas tank.
Yes, sorry I wasn't more specific. This would be for a CJ7 currently with 6ish inches of lift SUA. I recently installed the CCFabs tube fenders and Extended Corner Armor. This allowed me to trim my rear fenders substantially. I need to measure this but I think this will require me to move my axle back at least 1". I wasnt thinking about it but going over an inch could possibly conflict with my 15 gal fuel tank. My rear axle is a D44 out of a 86 CJ7.

My goal is to get rid of the long shackles and have a lower center of gravity. All while maintaining my 36" tires.

From what I can tell I have two options:
-drill a hole 1" in front of the original bolt hole on my leaf perch
or
- flip my rear shackle hangers and run FSJ Front springs. (I think this option is too long but not 100% certain)

Id like to know if anyone has done this on their CJ7 with zero issues.
SpikesCJ7 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-14-2017, 12:22 AM   #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Member # 661354
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by MitsuJpr View Post
A good place to look for this would be on the Willys forum, specifically the Rango Build by Mieser. He stuffed 36s under his MB with Practically no lift over stock.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks, ill check this out!
SpikesCJ7 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-14-2017, 12:33 AM   #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Member # 712810
Posts: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpikesCJ7 View Post

My goal is to get rid of the long shackles and have a lower center of gravity. All while maintaining my 36" tires.



From what I can tell I have two options:

-drill a hole 1" in front of the original bolt hole on my leaf perch

The hole 1" forward shouldn't be an issue as long as you have room for it on the perch itself. If not, another option would be to redrill the hole on the leaf springs. Some of the aftermarket companies like RuffStuff and Barnes4wd market perches with 3 holes for adjustable wheelbases in small increments. I've got a set myself and love them.
MitsuJpr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-14-2017, 07:39 PM   #11 (permalink)
CSP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Member # 1533
Location: Parker, CO
Posts: 4,469
Quote:
Originally Posted by MitsuJpr View Post
And with any wheelbase stretch, I would assume that the wheel opening needing modified would be common knowledge.
Yes, that's a safe assumption. However it took all of a few seconds to type it out in the event someone doesn't happen to think about it.
CSP is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-15-2017, 12:33 AM   #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Member # 661354
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by MitsuJpr View Post
The hole 1" forward shouldn't be an issue as long as you have room for it on the perch itself. If not, another option would be to redrill the hole on the leaf springs. Some of the aftermarket companies like RuffStuff and Barnes4wd market perches with 3 holes for adjustable wheelbases in small increments. I've got a set myself and love them.
I haven't had time to measure my current spring perch but I think they are 5-6" long. Not sure if that will leave enough perch on the short side. I've been looking at the RuffStuff perches and probably will go that route if I only need to move the axle 1".

I'm open to opinions on drilling a hole in the leaf spring. Would this significantly effect the structural integrity of the spring?
SpikesCJ7 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-15-2017, 05:13 AM   #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
_Stucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Member # 182743
Location: Central IL
Posts: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpikesCJ7 View Post
I'm open to opinions on drilling a hole in the leaf spring. Would this significantly effect the structural integrity of the spring?
I think it will significantly effect the structural integrity of the tip of your drill bit. Leaves are hard. When I had new main leaves made for my truck, the shop said they punch the holes while it's red hot.
_Stucky is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-15-2017, 07:20 AM   #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Member # 712810
Posts: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Stucky View Post
I think it will significantly effect the structural integrity of the tip of your drill bit. Leaves are hard. When I had new main leaves made for my truck, the shop said they punch the holes while it's red hot.


I agree with you on this. When I drilled my leaves out, I only did the top 2 leafs in my pack and slid the rest to the new hole.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SpikesCJ7 View Post

I'm open to opinions on drilling a hole in the leaf spring. Would this significantly effect the structural integrity of the spring?

I drilled my front leafs ~3 1/8" in forward on both of them and have put probably 1000 miles on them between highway and trails, with the new holes 3" forward I did notice the suspension was softer and it did flex better on the trail but was slightly more susceptible wheel hop (That's also an issue using a bastard waggy pack).

After I get done mocking up my new rear axle and get my full widths in place, I plan on doing the same thing to my rear springs as well.
MitsuJpr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-15-2017, 08:29 PM   #15 (permalink)
CSP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Member # 1533
Location: Parker, CO
Posts: 4,469
Sounds odd but use a carbide masonry bit for drilling leaves. Slow speed and lots of cutting oil.
CSP is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-16-2017, 02:01 AM   #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Member # 661354
Posts: 7
Thanks guys for the input! Drilling the leaves sounds like it might be the most cost effective way to go. If I only need 1" then Ill probably go this route. It will be a few weeks until I can get to it but will let you know what I decide!
SpikesCJ7 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

** A VERIFICATION EMAIL IS SENT TO THIS ADDRESS TO COMPLETE REGISTRATION!! **

Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.