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Old 03-12-2012, 09:20 PM   #1 (permalink)
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CAVE Built Willys

I decided to post up some pictures of my build. I don't know if we can call it a jeep, but then again I don't know that it is a buggy. Does it matter? Eh... I don't know. 4 wheel drive hot rod sounds good to me. Anyways here we go...

I've been looking for a good cj6 to resto mod or a decent flatty to drive around town. Not coming up with a satisfactory starting point, I went the other way and decided for a compromise between the two.

I'm trying to keep this build mild. I don't want a dedicated trail rig, but at the same time I don't want to miss out on the weekends. I don't expect this thing to cruise the freeway, but the closest freeway is 80 miles away. I'm looking to join the low COG bandwagon, but understand that belly clearance is important too. I hope to have this on the Rubicon later this year, but who knows. In reality a good trail ride like Rubicon is a once a year thing for me. The rest will be local exploring, hunting, fishing, and street driving. I don't want a buggy, I want a modern flat fender... but longer. We'll see how close I get. Just remember, I'm building what I want. Not a classic or original. It may take me a while to catch up to the current progress pictures but I'll get to work on it.

Step one was dismantling a waggy and an s10.



I started with some left over sheet metal from a DJ3A that used to pull the ball shagger at the golf course in my home town. Kinda cool if you ask me. I scrapped the rest of it a few years back.


Some experimenting with borrowed 36s. The plan is for a 100" wheelbase on 35s.


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Old 03-12-2012, 09:27 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Looking VERY cool! I'll be watching this one....
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:33 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Frame

The frame build started as 2x4x.120 tubing. After looking at a few other 4.3L cpi builds I decided on adding 2" of frame height over the typical 4" stacked frame that seems to be taking off. Credit where it is due of course. Everything has to stay above the frame rails and I don't want to cut into the hood at all. The width added to the rear of the frame is because I am using the factory s10 fuel tank. Keeps everything simple but at the expense of a little extra rear hang over due to size of the tank. I could have done some custom work to the tank, but I don't think the mild hang over is going to hurt me much.

Front frame width is 30" inside to match waggy spring perches. Rear frame is 36" inside.





Motor mounts


Tranny mount


The start of the chassis


And so it begins...

Last edited by CAVE; 03-12-2012 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:39 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Here is a quick view of the factory chevy fuel tank. The frame width may be a problem when it comes to rear shocks, but I had to leave enough room for shackle clearance and spring movement. I may have to end up notching the frame around the shocks, but that doesn't come until later.


The suspension comes from 2.5" YJ Old Man Emu springs SUA. I don't have the part number in front of me, but they are the heavier spring. I really considered a linked build, but after considering the use of this thing I couldn't justify the expense. I would have loved to run coilovers, but the simplicity and performance of a decent SUA setup is tough to beat. To each his own I guess. If I totally hate it after my last linked setup, things can always be changed.

The beginning of the tube work. There will be more added eventually, but I had to get to a certain point to move on with other details.

Last edited by CAVE; 03-12-2012 at 09:44 PM.
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:40 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Looks good man! I have built a 46' CJ2A, wish I would have done a frame off (much frame plating......ongoing) good luck.
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Old 03-13-2012, 06:38 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Looks great, keep the pics coming.I wish I would have went a little wider on my frame, would have been easier to find a fuel tank (Mine is 29.5" inside, and a lot of fuel tanks are 30" wide) . I like the low look, of the sua. Mine is setting higher than I wanted, but I hoping once it is weighted and flexed a little the springs will sag down.
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:53 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Body panel modeling. Just trying to get an idea of the overall shape.


Comparison to a slightly lifted cj5 on 31s. I find the difference in body size interesting. For a similar hood height, the body and frame are much deeper on the cj5. I think the same drivetrain in a cj5 or other newer jeep would have given a much higher belly height in relating to hood height (or the same depending how you look at it) or a lot more room under the hood. I have about a 1/2" between the plenum cover and the hood and probably a 1/4" between the trans pan and the bottom of the frame. Tcase clocking puts the tcase at least an inch above the frame, it's the trans pan that sets the belly height.

Last edited by CAVE; 03-13-2012 at 09:59 AM.
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:21 AM   #8 (permalink)
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That is quite the approach angle.
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Old 03-13-2012, 11:32 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keeptahoewhite View Post
That is quite the approach angle.
I'm guessing the front of the rails have a temporary crossmember holding them together, and he'll shorten them once he gets a bit further along.

Build looks BTW. Looking forward to how the rest turns out.

Oh, and a question: is the CPI 4.3 taller than a Vortec 4.3? I put a Vortec 4.3 in an M38 a few years back that just fit under the hood as well. I used a th350 and D18, so a flat belly was out of the equation. Are you shooting for a flat belly?

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Old 03-13-2012, 02:13 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I don't know all the ins and outs of chevy "vortec". It seems that true vortec heads didn't come on some of the badged vortec motors. This motor is the cpi version (instead of the later csfi) of the 4.3L that came from like 93-95. It batch fires fuel through a single injector whereas the later versions are a little different. It has the highest stock hp ratings on paper, but the cpi unit has a reputation for being problematic. I plan to replace the whole system with new parts before it is all said and done because this motor has 160k and the unit is leaking. Yes, the belly will be flat.
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:49 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Here is the start of my floor. The interior will be aluminum to save a little on weight, but will be fully removable. I just cut up some cardboard for templates to make sure I didn't waste $$ aluminum.


I also made the body "skins". I really wanted a steel body so I experimented a little and came up with this. Reference this thread for more info and pictures.
https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1046216

You can get a bit of an idea on the rear hang over from the s10 tank in this picture too. At this point I feel like I actually have a jeep to work on instead of a pile of parts.
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:59 PM   #12 (permalink)
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At this point I'd like to ask a newbie question regarding fuel lines. All my fuel line fittings have the flared end with an o-ring on them. I would like to replace the lines all the way from the back of the motor to the tank and include an inline fuel filter somewhere on the frame. I'm open to a combination of hard lines and soft lines, or all soft lines. Obviously this is a higher pressure system than a typical carb setup at approx. 60psi.

I'm very new to AN fittings, stainless hose, and even hard fuel line options. I can run brake lines and have built some of my own, but never fuel and never with the o-ring connections. I assume you would buy bulk tubing and used a compression fitting to get the right gm style fitting? I don't want to spend an arm and a leg on fuel lines, but I would like it to turn out clean and worry free.

Is there a good reference somewhere for AN fittings as they relate to tubing sizes? I'll do a little more internet searching, but I would love to hear what's available. I've spent some time on Summit's site looking at AN stuff, but I don't really know what I'm looking for. I would prefer to not have all shiny stainless hose and blue and red fittings. Is there a black option for the hose or only for the fittings?
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Old 03-14-2012, 10:19 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Looking GOOD!

I really like AN fittings. I did all the hard line in my brake system with AN-3 stuff. I went to off the shelf soft lines to make them 'autozone' replaceable parts. It was easier and cheaper for me to do all the adaptions I needed to in AN than traditional double flare. I needed inch stuff at the master cylinder, some NPT at the proportioning valve and brake lock, and then metric at the soft brake lines.....

I did pony up and buy this flare tool....

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...00_i00_details

This is best 37 degree flare tool I have ever seen. Stupid simple to use, perfect flare every time, no problem doing steel lines.

An fittings are pretty simple for sizes. each 'dash' equals 1/16". So AN-3 is 3/16, AN-4 is 4/16 or 1/4, etc.
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Old 03-15-2012, 07:04 AM   #14 (permalink)
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use the factory lines to get close to the frame. then a rubber hose to get on to the frame then your own lines from there on. with a double flare tool it is easy to put a bump on the end of the tube so a hose won't slip off.
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if you don't roll it over once in a while you aren't trying hard enough
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Old 03-16-2012, 08:55 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I've done the flared end for a hose and clamp, but I think I want all threaded connections on this one. I would like to do away with all the factory lines and hoses for a cleaner install on the new frame. Maybe running hard lines along the frame next to the brake lines and then a short section of soft line from the frame to the engine and fuel tank? Can you use regular brake lines in place of fuel lines? Same thing right, just need to run the larger diameter? I think I found the adapters for my o-ring connections so I should be able to use all AN stuff. Kind of expensive, but probably worth it. Where is the best place to buy AN fittings? Thanks for the help guys. More pictures to come.
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Old 03-16-2012, 08:00 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Floor

I actually worked on floor today and since I already showed the start of it I'll post up today's progress. I haven't caught you up to where I am yet, but this fits here better anyways. I kind of build in random patterns. It makes sense to me at least.

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Old 03-16-2012, 08:07 PM   #17 (permalink)
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More

I needed to clock the tcase so a friend drew this file up for me and I took it to the water jet in town. I still need to drill the counter sink holes, but this gives you a good idea. I saved the original file which had like 5 different clocking locations. I also need to order a sye.




Here is my steering box mount. It still needs a little boxing in, but you get the idea. It is spaced out from the frame quite a bit to leave room for my upper shackle mounts and shackle movement.








The steering is all stock wagoneer. Simplicity and availability.


Last edited by CAVE; 03-16-2012 at 10:40 PM.
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Old 03-16-2012, 08:11 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Winch

I think 8274s belong on jeeps. Obviously cooling can be a problem with them though. To stick with keeping weight low in the frame and avoid cooling issues, here is what I came up with out of 1/4" flat stock.




These also came from the water jet and will be welded into the frame for the tow bar mount. Double as a shackle/D ring mount too.


Last edited by CAVE; 03-16-2012 at 10:41 PM.
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Old 03-22-2012, 07:38 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I am trying to use the s10 radiator. It isn't a perfect fit, but I'm getting tight on budget so I will try it out. I had a left over taurus fan and put together a shroud. Everything is bolt in so if I want to get a custom radiator at some point I'm not in any trouble. The headlight buckets had to be trimmed to get enough space and the fan ended up about a 1/4" from the radiator. It is tight, but whose willys radiator isn't?








I also mocked up the brake booster. This one came from a mid-late 80s cherokee. I got the pedal assembly and everything from an auto. The brake booster is a little shorter front to back than the later xjs. I don't think I could have fit the later version. Time will tell if this setup will be adequate.


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Old 03-22-2012, 09:23 AM   #20 (permalink)
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beat down rust bucket or hi dollar resto-mod you just can't beat a flat fender for old school cool. not having a telephone book size catalog of parts available to waste your credit card on means you have to use your head. first rule of engine transplants, grill then radator, then the engine nice work
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if you don't roll it over once in a while you aren't trying hard enough
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:09 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Here is a current ride height shot. The flat belly is sitting at 17.5". I like it, but I don't know that it will be ideal for trails. I'm thinking I need to come up at least an inch. Maybe a little more once all the weight is settled in place. I'll wait until almost everything is finished before I finalize it. I was able to get nice long shackles without them hanging down too far. The angle turned out pretty good too. This is my cruising pose. Yep, I'm kind of a loser. Oh, and I chopped the windshield down because with the low seat mounts I couldn't see the hood through the glass.


A shot of the belly. I also frenched in the spring hangers by 1.5" and I'm thinking this is where I went wrong with my ride height. I thought it was going to be around 18.5" a the belly, but the springs settled more than I had planned. I may have to un-french them.


This is a some 1/8"x6 flat stock that I had bend into 90s. The rockers are made of 2x2x.120 so this will beef them up and serve as the lower body skin mounts.
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:47 PM   #22 (permalink)
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i think i would run it that way for a while to see how it works, then make adjustments from there. i would love to have my 51 sitting like that
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if you don't roll it over once in a while you aren't trying hard enough
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Old 03-24-2012, 01:25 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Great project. Coming from a fellow Oregonian . Looks awesome. If USPS will ever get me my stuff I can get mine back up and running.
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Old 03-24-2012, 02:23 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Yeah, I do like the stance as it is. I guess it's easy to go up if I need to. I have about 4" of up travel in front and probably 5-6 in back as it sits. I would like 6 and 6, but we will see. In reality, this isn't a hardcore rig and I'm not looking to conquer KOH style rocks or whoops. Mostly, I just want a more modern handling flatty for the occasional trail run that I can put anyone in to drive. I think giving it some wheelbase, stock waggy front end geometry and keeping it low should help a bunch. Thanks for the comments. I've got to get cracking because we have a Rubi trip planned for August.
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Old 03-24-2012, 02:25 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Great project. Coming from a fellow Oregonian . Looks awesome. If USPS will ever get me my stuff I can get mine back up and running.
Have you run any of the trails around Big Lake? I haven't been there since 2001 and they hadn't really started developing the rock trails yet. Mostly just black sand stuff for the bikes and quads. I really want to get up there and check them out this summer. Maybe ride the DR650 up for the day or something.
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