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Old 06-03-2012, 02:17 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Rooney's build

First off, this will be a long term build. Basically, finances/research will determine the timeline.

History: I bought this 42 MB for $200 as a non-runner next to a barn. After getting it home I realized that the tub/fenders/hood/grill were the only things not GPW. Most of the bolts even had the F script. The grill was an early slat grill. I took all the GPW parts and the restoration valuable parts and sold them to the resto crowd. The floor was beyond shot so I chopped it all out knowing I'd design the entire floor around the drivetrain. I first started building it with a 4.3 and typical parts then got the v8 bug and tried to put a Bronco 302 in it, had 60's and 38s ready to throw under it. Well life happened and I had to sell all the parts off, I refused to sell the body.
Once that happened and we moved, I bought a CJ5 and got it wheelable and damn near daily driveable. So now that I've got a working rig I've decided to pursue my dream rig.

Plan: I've got a 4.3L/4L60E with mallory ignition, marine intake and TBI. I plan on running either a Stak 3 sp or an Atlas. Axles will be 44/9 combo, full hydro steering, street legal (hydro is overlooked here), 4 link and 3 link suspension on 36's.

Where I'm at right now....well I built all the floor bracing for the 302/c6 but it appears it will work fine with the current drivetrain. I like the center console thing so that's why there are two braces coming down from the dash. The frame was completely based off of Meiser's design, the only thing I changed was the angle of the cuts, I had to go with 45 degree cuts due to saw limitations. I'm still trying to decide whether to go with coil springs, coil overs or air shocks. I'm betting it'll be coil springs if the front diff will allow it.

Guess that's it for now. Here are some pics of where everything is right now. I appreciate any and all advice/criticism/finger pointing. This is my first build of this caliber so I've got a lot to learn as I go.

First few pics are of the body. You can see the floor bracing I put in and where I tried to recreate the rusted out ax/shovel cutouts.
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Old 06-03-2012, 02:20 PM   #2 (permalink)
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These pics are pretty self explanatory. I still need to get the frame fish plated.
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Old 06-03-2012, 02:26 PM   #3 (permalink)
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These are how it sits today. Just showing very roughly how the body will sit on the frame (thanks again Meiser for sharing your dimensions). Just doing some rough measurements it's gonna be a bitch to get the motor positioned right. I'm struggling with the order to do things though. I need a rad and taurus fan to know how far forward I can move the motor, but I need to mount the body first. And I can't position the motor till I have my axles to know how much to offset it. Kinda feels like I need to get A mounted to know where B goes but I can't mount B till I have C mounted and I can't mount C till I get A mounted. I'm guessing I need to get the body positioned and mounted before I go any further. I just hate to do that until I know if I'm gonna have to use body spacers to keep the motor under the hood and maximize ground clearance. Damn motor is tall.

Oh and how the hell did you guys get your body squared and level on the frame? This thing is so tweaked. Did you just end up kinda averaging out the measurements as good as possible? Should I use plumb bobs on the middle of the tub and go by that?
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Old 06-03-2012, 02:55 PM   #4 (permalink)
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"square and level on the frame"

Good joke.

You should pull the measurements off an old frame, theres a diagram floating around with where the body mounts are on the frame.
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Old 06-03-2012, 03:28 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I've had that for several years now. I used it when I restored my 49 3A. Even from the factory these things weren't all that square, add some wartime abuse, then years of farm duty, I don't expect the tub to be square. I'm just wondering if others have averaged their measurements to get close or what tricks some might have used. And with absolutely none of the stock floor left and having built my own frame, mount location isn't an issue for me, it's being sure the tub is as centered as possible.

Another side note, what radiator are you guys with the 4.3 using? Would a stock rad from a 4.2L cj5 keep the motor cool?
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Last edited by Rooney77; 06-03-2012 at 03:29 PM.
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Old 06-03-2012, 03:38 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Good job on starting a thread!

I set my body on the frame and then just starting shifting it around, measuring, shifting, measuring, etc. Eventually I got it square enough. You never get it perfect, but I don't think these things where any better than an 1/8" in some directions from the factory. Once you get better than that its probably good enough....

My body would sit on the 'belly' of the frame so level wasn't a big deal. You could always shim the body mounts slightly later if you notice something really off.

Your tub doesn't have that much to work from however. Good enough is probably good enough.
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Old 06-03-2012, 03:51 PM   #7 (permalink)
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To be fair, guys, the bodys for these things were made in washing machine plants, lol.

On the radiator subject. Just remember you can always push the radiator about an inch and half forward. the headlight buckets have A LOT of un-used volume that can be utilized for radiator space. I've seen where the buckets were almost entirely removed to fit a good sized radiator
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Old 06-03-2012, 04:13 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peow130 View Post
To be fair, guys, the bodys for these things were made in washing machine plants, lol.

On the radiator subject. Just remember you can always push the radiator about an inch and half forward. the headlight buckets have A LOT of un-used volume that can be utilized for radiator space. I've seen where the buckets were almost entirely removed to fit a good sized radiator
I don't have headlight buckets, MB's just had a flange/tang sticking out behind the hole. The headlight actually swiveled down from on to of the grill. I've got pretty much the most clean slate I could have. Well excluding all the future body work. Which I guess could be my next step and I can save for the rad and fan while I'm doing it. Would be a whole lot easier if my other parts would sell.
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Old 06-03-2012, 04:16 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Good job on starting a thread!

I set my body on the frame and then just starting shifting it around, measuring, shifting, measuring, etc. Eventually I got it square enough. You never get it perfect, but I don't think these things where any better than an 1/8" in some directions from the factory. Once you get better than that its probably good enough....

My body would sit on the 'belly' of the frame so level wasn't a big deal. You could always shim the body mounts slightly later if you notice something really off.

Your tub doesn't have that much to work from however. Good enough is probably good enough.
Ya perfect will never be achieved with these things. And given my starting point I guess I'm nit picking. That's probably the engineer in me. I went ahead and got a plumb bob hanging at the centerline of the firewall and I guess I'll go from there. I still need to find some good reference points to find the centerline at the rear, my wheelwells are very inconsistent and I'm pretty sure the upper edge of the body won't be a good point, looks like someone tried to do body work with a sledge hammer.
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Old 06-03-2012, 04:26 PM   #10 (permalink)
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off to a good start. i noticed the tape on the rear fenders. comp cut? if so its ez to push the axle back with links and coils. makes for longer drive shaft, better engine placement, more room for a bigger radiator. along with pushing the front forward give better wheel base, wieght bias front to back. on my buggy the body is draped over a tube buggy frame work like an afterthought. makes it nice to work on because the body comes off with 10 bolts and leaves everything acessable. a friend who is a sargent for chp researched state and fed laws and could find nothing that says full hydro steering is not leagal. that is a myth just like 2 bumper pull trailers. if you do it right there is no problem
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if you don't roll it over once in a while you aren't trying hard enough
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Old 06-03-2012, 04:45 PM   #11 (permalink)
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off to a good start. i noticed the tape on the rear fenders. comp cut? if so its ez to push the axle back with links and coils. makes for longer drive shaft, better engine placement, more room for a bigger radiator. along with pushing the front forward give better wheel base, wieght bias front to back. on my buggy the body is draped over a tube buggy frame work like an afterthought. makes it nice to work on because the body comes off with 10 bolts and leaves everything acessable. a friend who is a sargent for chp researched state and fed laws and could find nothing that says full hydro steering is not leagal. that is a myth just like 2 bumper pull trailers. if you do it right there is no problem
Kickass info on the steering.

I haven't chosen a WB yet, I was basically just gonna throw the axles under it and see what would "look" right with a 36" tire. I will be stretching the WB from stock though. As for the comp cut, that's several years old and I'm not sure if I want to comp cut it or do like svaras and others and push as far as possible without comp cutting.
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Old 06-03-2012, 06:49 PM   #12 (permalink)
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off to a good start. i noticed the tape on the rear fenders. comp cut? if so its ez to push the axle back with links and coils. makes for longer drive shaft, better engine placement, more room for a bigger radiator. along with pushing the front forward give better wheel base, wieght bias front to back. on my buggy the body is draped over a tube buggy frame work like an afterthought. makes it nice to work on because the body comes off with 10 bolts and leaves everything acessable. a friend who is a sargent for chp researched state and fed laws and could find nothing that says full hydro steering is not leagal. that is a myth just like 2 bumper pull trailers. if you do it right there is no problem
California defines steering in the following document on page 4.
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/curriculum/Unit%206.pdf
Honestly, do we want people on freeways doing 70 mph in traffic, and have the motor die killing the pump?

Glad to see the build thread Rooney. Make the frame level and square, and measure off it. It won't be perfect, and will drive you crazy for life. get used to it.
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:20 PM   #13 (permalink)
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California defines steering in the following document on page 4.
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/curriculum/Unit%206.pdf
Honestly, do we want people on freeways doing 70 mph in traffic, and have the motor die killing the pump?

Glad to see the build thread Rooney. Make the frame level and square, and measure off it. It won't be perfect, and will drive you crazy for life. get used to it.
This guy has a very good point. Ive had the engine die on me with full hydro. You can pull over but the steering is super stiff and its a bitch to turn. It was probably the scariest thing Ive done.
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:25 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Fastest speed it'll see is 45mph. I live literally 3 minutes from work and that'll be the extent of it's street use. I've had tractors die on me on the road and ya, it's jacked getting one to the side of the road.
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Old 06-03-2012, 09:51 PM   #15 (permalink)
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anything with power steering of any kind is a pain to steer when the motor dies or pump goes out, so this doesn't only apply to full hydro set ups--

good to see you're making some progress--

I just set mine on the frame and got it centered as close as possible...
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Old 06-03-2012, 10:31 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Before I cut my body up for the stretch, it was 3/4" difference between the left and right sides, from the dash to the back of the tub.

As for mounting and squaring it up. I just kept measuring and adjusting until I got it close, and then clamped the body down and drilled the mounting holes. I used the 45* cut off pieces from the frame for the body mount brackets.
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Old 06-04-2012, 06:55 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Can anyone recomend a radiator? I measured my cj5 radiator yesterday and I could make one work but I don't know if it'll cool the 4.3 and I'd rather get one I didn't have to modify all to hell.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-380324/

This one seems like it might work and the price seems reasonable.
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Last edited by Rooney77; 06-04-2012 at 07:07 AM.
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Old 06-04-2012, 08:18 AM   #18 (permalink)
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this is the one I bought http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedw...tors,3557.html. it says it is a little thicker than the summit one you listed. I can not give a review yet on it though, at least until I get my rig running.
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:47 AM   #19 (permalink)
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driving with full hydro requires useing your head. i stay to dirt roads and slow paved roads to get from one trail to another. i use an original style 17" wheel for leverage. yes i can steer it dead, no its not easy
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if you don't roll it over once in a while you aren't trying hard enough
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:01 AM   #20 (permalink)
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i made this out of an old ross box out of a cj. 50 yrs of being a cheap ass i reuse a lot of stuff. i used a griiffin aluminum rad from summit for the buggy $180 new, you can search size and connections theres a lot of them
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if you don't roll it over once in a while you aren't trying hard enough
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:11 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I hung on to my original steering wheel and would like to reuse it with a quick release. I haven't even begun to research steering columns.

I just ordered the radiator I posted a link to. Now I'm off to figure out how to mount a radiator.
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:36 PM   #22 (permalink)
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some ideas for the radiator, that I had saved:

https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...light=radiator

https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...radiator+mount

https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...=868450&page=2

https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=885406
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Old 06-04-2012, 06:49 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Thanks a ton for that. I may try a modified version of the first one. I had debated coming up with a way to mount it to the grill so as the frame twists it won't kill the radiator. But I couldn't come up with a non destructive way to do it.
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Old 06-09-2012, 08:32 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Well my radiator came in. $142 to the door and only took two days . I'm hoping to get the fish plates done tomorrow as well as a few, if not all, of the body mounts. Assuming I can quit being nit picky and just get the body as close as possible . Pics will be posted for your critiquing.
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Old 06-10-2012, 06:08 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Any pics yet?
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