My Kid's '48 FF Willys [Build thread] - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > Brand Specific Tech > Jeep - Willys
Notices

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-04-2013, 04:59 PM   #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Member # 233057
Location: Redding, CA
Posts: 51
My Kid's '48 FF Willys [Build thread]

Ok, with a bunch of help from the group here my son and I are off and running with our 48 Flat Fender build.

Our first step was deciding what we are building. Have it pretty well worked out. Something that will allow him to play around a bit off road, but still drive it to school and such.

* We're building our own frame based on the drawings from Mieser. We are going about 3 inches wider just to give a touch more room between the frame rails.
* Axles: Dana 30 and Dana 44 front/rear - thanx wilez5150!
* Springs: Planning on using Isuzu Rodeo Rears. Should be easy to find, and the local Pick-n-Pull says they have them. Just haven't had a chance to go grab them.
* Motor/Tranny: Ford 289 and 4 speed
* Transfer case: ???
* Tires and wheels: 33" tires, boy is still picking out rims. Any suggestions on size? 17"?

Now on to the good stuff... pictures!
SoccerGuy3 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-04-2013, 05:01 PM   #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Member # 233057
Location: Redding, CA
Posts: 51
Gonna be a bit of work before we are done!!

SoccerGuy3 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Old 01-04-2013, 05:05 PM   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Member # 233057
Location: Redding, CA
Posts: 51
Getting started!

Step #1


Step #2 - Cutting some steel:


Step#3 - Laying it out and tacking it up:
SoccerGuy3 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-04-2013, 05:07 PM   #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Member # 233057
Location: Redding, CA
Posts: 51
Looking good!


Front bumper:


Rear bumper:


Coming together:
SoccerGuy3 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-04-2013, 05:08 PM   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Member # 233057
Location: Redding, CA
Posts: 51
And the first weekend is in the books!


Not going to be able to work on it for a couple of weeks, but next up will be squaring the frame and finish welding the laps and adding the end caps and lap supports.

Last edited by SoccerGuy3; 01-04-2013 at 05:09 PM.
SoccerGuy3 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-04-2013, 05:58 PM   #6 (permalink)
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Member # 202363
Location: Where the beer flows like wine
Posts: 285
Looks like a cool build. I like small Flat Fenders. If you are only going to run 33s stick with 15 inch rims it will give you more tire and be better ride quality. Are the Dana 30/44 combo you have 5 on 5.5 or 4 on 5.5?
zuzu is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-04-2013, 06:45 PM   #7 (permalink)
old school idiot
 
wilez5150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Member # 86194
Location: in the weeds near Hammer Town
Posts: 1,658
5x5.5 early 70's cj disc 30 and 30 spline flanged centered 44
__________________
USN 2x Viet Nam Vet.
life member Victor Valley 4 Wheelers
82 Yota with some stuff
F Toy #20
86 CUCV with some stuff
F 800 toter ho
retired wheeler
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


if you don't roll it over once in a while you aren't trying hard enough
wilez5150 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-04-2013, 09:03 PM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Member # 5326
Location: Southwest Colorado
Posts: 11,073
With the frame wider are you going to inboard the front spring, outboard the hangers, or ???

Good start!

I'm happy my frame stuff is a handy reference for people!
__________________
42 MB, 225, T18, big kid go cart with clown tires
92 Dodge W250 daily driver on 39s
Mieser is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-04-2013, 10:07 PM   #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Member # 233057
Location: Redding, CA
Posts: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mieser View Post
With the frame wider are you going to inboard the front spring, outboard the hangers, or ???

Good start!

I'm happy my frame stuff is a handy reference for people!
My thought was to relocate the perches so I coud keep the springs inline with frame.
SoccerGuy3 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-05-2013, 06:48 AM   #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Member # 9991
Location: Cold Springs, NV
Posts: 3,757
This will reduce the turning radius.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MrWillys is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-05-2013, 11:59 AM   #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Peow130's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Member # 123919
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 5,205
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWillys View Post
This will reduce the turning radius.
Only if his tires hit the springs. If the stops are set right it shouldnt make a huge difference.
__________________
Fuckin shitbox 2005 F150
53' CJV35-U, HO 5.0, 4 speed, etc.
Peow130 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-05-2013, 12:50 PM   #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Member # 9991
Location: Cold Springs, NV
Posts: 3,757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peow130 View Post
Only if his tires hit the springs. If the stops are set right it shouldnt make a huge difference.
Think about this for a moment. We've always adjusted the stops to obtain maximum movement of the tire. We set the stops just before it hits the spring. If he moves his springs outward it will reduce the turning radius.

In 1976, AMC made major revisions to the CJ. One of these changes was moving the rear springs outward, and widening the frame. They did not widen the front section of the frame. A lot of guys here widen the frames, but also swap to wider axles. This was in reaction to claims that Jeeps easily tip over. Sometime in the 80's they widened the axles too. And we all know a YJ just looks kinda goofy.

When putting a 12.50x15x33 on a stock axle with a 4" backset with a 10" rim you can stuff the rear well. While this works great they also reduce the turning radius. You back up, and go forward in the really tight spots. Just saying!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by MrWillys; 01-05-2013 at 12:52 PM.
MrWillys is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-05-2013, 01:09 PM   #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Member # 181491
Location: East, TN
Posts: 3,038
Frame looks really good.
keep up the good work!
crispins is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-05-2013, 01:52 PM   #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Member # 5326
Location: Southwest Colorado
Posts: 11,073
As a note. I am running 35" tires on 10+" wheels with probably less than 4" of backspacing. I rub the frame with a 54" wide narrow track axle. It is just a data point, but I would guess that 33's will rub unless you turn the stops out a fair bit. I'm pretty happy with how sharp mine turns, but I would take more steering angle if I could get it easily. With the small package there really ins't a great way to do it in a flat fender. My tires already stick pretty dang far so wider axles are not really an attractive option. You could run more backspacing for a shorter scrub radius but most factory knuckles can only tolerate about 5-5.5" of backspacing before things start getting in the way on the steering arms.

Just a few thoughts.
__________________
42 MB, 225, T18, big kid go cart with clown tires
92 Dodge W250 daily driver on 39s
Mieser is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-05-2013, 02:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Peow130's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Member # 123919
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 5,205
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWillys View Post
Think about this for a moment. We've always adjusted the stops to obtain maximum movement of the tire. We set the stops just before it hits the spring. If he moves his springs outward it will reduce the turning radius.

In 1976, AMC made major revisions to the CJ. One of these changes was moving the rear springs outward, and widening the frame. They did not widen the front section of the frame. A lot of guys here widen the frames, but also swap to wider axles. This was in reaction to claims that Jeeps easily tip over. Sometime in the 80's they widened the axles too. And we all know a YJ just looks kinda goofy.

When putting a 12.50x15x33 on a stock axle with a 4" backset with a 10" rim you can stuff the rear well. While this works great they also reduce the turning radius. You back up, and go forward in the really tight spots. Just saying!
Well i know the reasoning behind the wider rear frame section. That has to do with a larger moment at the center of the spring to the hub. The lobger the axle end is from the spring, the easier it is to compress the spring. Think about why you put a cheater bar on the end of a wrench. It causes a much higher torque at the socket. When you gave a shorter wrench it takes more torque. Same effect with the axle in the rear. As for the front. If hes widening 1.5 inches both sides and the d30 is 1.5 inches wider the ratio would be the same, or atleast i think so. I know the full widths turn tighter because the full width trucks have narrow front springs and the whole hub can turn on the kingpins more.

But it is all food for thought. And yeah, yjs look goofy as hell
__________________
Fuckin shitbox 2005 F150
53' CJV35-U, HO 5.0, 4 speed, etc.
Peow130 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-06-2013, 04:23 PM   #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Member # 233057
Location: Redding, CA
Posts: 51
Thanx for all the input guys. Question. Doesn't the increased space between the rails and increased stability outweigh the reduced turning radius? Or will the reduction in turning radius be that severe? I haven't finish welded anything yet, could always move the rails in if I am flawed in my thinking.
SoccerGuy3 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-07-2013, 12:21 AM   #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Peow130's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Member # 123919
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 5,205
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoccerGuy3 View Post
Thanx for all the input guys. Question. Doesn't the increased space between the rails and increased stability outweigh the reduced turning radius? Or will the reduction in turning radius be that severe? I haven't finish welded anything yet, could always move the rails in if I am flawed in my thinking.
I wouldn't think so, if it's that bad, put 1.5" wheel-spacers on both sides of the front axle. Your tire will have a little bit more "scrub" radius. Or get a rim with a lesser back spacing.

Honestly though, you're better off with the narrower front frame anyways. The body will line up with the frame easier, and you'll be able to essentially bolt your axle into it, and still have room for shocks. With the springs farther apart, shocks are going to be harder to place than they would if they weren't so far apart.
__________________
Fuckin shitbox 2005 F150
53' CJV35-U, HO 5.0, 4 speed, etc.
Peow130 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-07-2013, 12:29 AM   #18 (permalink)
old school idiot
 
wilez5150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Member # 86194
Location: in the weeds near Hammer Town
Posts: 1,658
you can narrow the frame and outboard the rear springs for the best of both worlds. its only metal, its easy to change. i have a narrow frame on a spring over at a 106" wb and no sway bars. you just have to use your head while you drive in stead of spacing out
__________________
USN 2x Viet Nam Vet.
life member Victor Valley 4 Wheelers
82 Yota with some stuff
F Toy #20
86 CUCV with some stuff
F 800 toter ho
retired wheeler
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


if you don't roll it over once in a while you aren't trying hard enough
wilez5150 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-07-2013, 07:20 AM   #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Member # 5326
Location: Southwest Colorado
Posts: 11,073
Stability is more a function of spring rate and axle width I think. Mine is a stock width frame and it is stable as can be, almost to a fault. Try and keep it as low as practical and you will be fine.
__________________
42 MB, 225, T18, big kid go cart with clown tires
92 Dodge W250 daily driver on 39s
Mieser is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-07-2013, 09:55 AM   #20 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Member # 9991
Location: Cold Springs, NV
Posts: 3,757
Someone pointed out the Dana 30 is 2" wider than the 25? 51" vs 53". My thoughts where keeping the stock width would mean not having to relocate spring perches, and reset castor on the frontend. I do like the idea of outboarding the rear for stability. They other argument for keeping it stock width is the body mounting locations.

Frame looks good!

The one truth I'll always remember my dad telling me is that the best speed for a Jeep is 45 MPH. Why is it that dad was always right?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MrWillys is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-07-2013, 10:25 AM   #21 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Member # 5326
Location: Southwest Colorado
Posts: 11,073
My early D30 is just about 54" wide. I have the rotors on the outside of the bearing hub just like the stock drums.

I don't really think that the stock setup is that unstable unless it is lifted a bunch. Mine is lowered from stock though so what do I know

There is a decent amount of stuff in the front end that would be easier with a stock width frame.......front fender braces, the two bolt tab on the rear of the fender, etc.
__________________
42 MB, 225, T18, big kid go cart with clown tires
92 Dodge W250 daily driver on 39s
Mieser is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-07-2013, 10:54 AM   #22 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Member # 9991
Location: Cold Springs, NV
Posts: 3,757
FYI:
Jeep Axle: Dana 30
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MrWillys is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-27-2013, 11:47 AM   #23 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Member # 233057
Location: Redding, CA
Posts: 51
Hey all, just checking in. Life has intruded a bit, so not much happening. Did get the frame rails finish welded and picked up the side plates this week. Might get a chance to get them fitted next week.

Been thinking about springs. Original plan was to go with Isuzu Rodeo on all four corners. Wondering if used springs are the way to go vs purchasing a lift kit with springs, shocks etc. Say 3-4"?

Thoughts?
SoccerGuy3 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-27-2013, 02:24 PM   #24 (permalink)
old school idiot
 
wilez5150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Member # 86194
Location: in the weeds near Hammer Town
Posts: 1,658
i used trooper/rodeo springs at 100.00 a set on a couple jeeps i did for others with no problems. i bought a new set of skyjacker yj springs at 650.00 for the set and they sagged out in less than a month and skyjacker won't warrenty them because i installed them on a flat fender. the trooper/rodeo springs even rode and flexed better.
__________________
USN 2x Viet Nam Vet.
life member Victor Valley 4 Wheelers
82 Yota with some stuff
F Toy #20
86 CUCV with some stuff
F 800 toter ho
retired wheeler
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


if you don't roll it over once in a while you aren't trying hard enough
wilez5150 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-30-2013, 07:37 PM   #25 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Member # 242121
Location: Whitestown, IN
Posts: 9
subscribed
goatwrangler is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

** A VERIFICATION EMAIL IS SENT TO THIS ADDRESS TO COMPLETE REGISTRATION!! **

Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.