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Old 11-22-2015, 09:57 PM   #176 (permalink)
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I thought o understood what you are doing. ( pinching ) what exactly is that?
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Old 11-22-2015, 10:07 PM   #177 (permalink)
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I thought o understood what you are doing. ( pinching ) what exactly is that?
The tub on an FJ40 is tapered all the way to the back of the door opening. The width of the tub at the dash is approx 55.5" wide. The width behind the door is about 63.5" wide at the point where the tub becomes parallel.

In the factory design the doors are not parallel to each other.



Here is a blueprint style drawing of the tub. You can see how the chassis is not at its widest point till behind the doors.

I am taking out the taper from the front of the door opening back. This will make the widest point of the tub about 55.5" wide. Then I will build a framework ( that will also be the cage ), and skin it, to form the rear part of the tub from behind the door opening back.
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Old 11-23-2015, 07:22 AM   #178 (permalink)
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Oh nice ok makes way more sense now.
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Old 11-23-2015, 06:30 PM   #179 (permalink)
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I got the 2nd side done in like 1/10th the time of course....



I used a 1/16" disc for the top cut on the outside of the body in the door seal area, but I switched to a 1/8" thick 'cupped' cut off wheel to do the inside cut. This gave me a nice wide slot to start with on the inside.



Then I FINALLY found a way to make the cuts I couldn't get to with the grinder. I drilled a 1/4" hole in the bottom corner on the inside wall before making the last cuts. Then I used a LONG thin sheetmetal saw blade to make two cuts on the inside that added up to about a 3/16" gap. The long blade made it possible to reach the bottom at the right angle without hitting the bottom panel or outside wall.



Next I made these little cuts with a small wheel on a Dremel tool. This little area will get 'displaced' when everything moves. I was able to drill 'down' through these two little tabs so they would break off after they where pried up with a screwdriver.

In the end it ended up looking like this...



That gap will close when the door moved and I will weld everything back up!

Time to get this thing on the table...
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Old 11-24-2015, 02:57 PM   #180 (permalink)
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Here is how I did mine. The horizontal holes on the frame are sleeved with tubing and a nut is welded on the inside so you can use one tool to install the bolts. No bolt heads to counter sink or bash up and you can just slide the bolts in position to hold the weight before actually threading them all in. Seems to work great, but my aluminum sheet is all second hand scraps. Should be easier for you starting with new sheet.
I've not build skid(s) for my willys yet, but I like how you mounted these. No bolt heads or countersinking! I think I'm going to steal your idea Though mine probably won't cover near as much as the underside as yours. And my transfer case is not QUITE flat with the bottom of the frame, so I'll need to make a gradual hump for it. I'm thinking about making mine out of aluminum, so I can get some aluminum TIG practice.
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Last edited by danielbuck; 11-24-2015 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 11-24-2015, 07:00 PM   #181 (permalink)
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Nice work on the door pinch project. I'm anxious to see it brought together. I was just thinking about that skid plate again and thought about your body mounts on Rango. You could place some of those inverted on the inside of the frame rail and bolt it flush to the frame. You will have quite a large bend radius if it is even possible to bent it without cracking which I doubt. We build aluminum fenders and micro cracking is a serious issue on thinner 5000/6000 series. Not to mention age hardening. Just thinking.......
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Old 11-24-2015, 07:29 PM   #182 (permalink)
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Sometimes it really is about having the right tools! Work so far looks excellent, as usual.
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Old 11-24-2015, 08:41 PM   #183 (permalink)
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Nice work on the door pinch project. I'm anxious to see it brought together. I was just thinking about that skid plate again and thought about your body mounts on Rango. You could place some of those inverted on the inside of the frame rail and bolt it flush to the frame. You will have quite a large bend radius if it is even possible to bent it without cracking which I doubt. We build aluminum fenders and micro cracking is a serious issue on thinner 5000/6000 series. Not to mention age hardening. Just thinking.......
Yup, bending aluminum can be tricky...especially the stronger stuff. I think minimum bend radius for 6000 series stuff even in 0-condition is something like 3x material thickness, especially in thicker material.

The inverted body mount thing is kinda what I was thinking. The frame is WIDE on the J80 chassis so I have plenty of room for those. They would probably only need to be 3" tall at most. That would leave a lot of flat surface on the inside of the frame to run brake and fuel lines. I would just use clip on tab nuts too, no need to reach around to hold the top fastener. They could also be replaced easily.

I am still working out how to have a beyond flush fastener without welding if possible. Could be an interesting touch....
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:21 PM   #184 (permalink)
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Idea time....

I'm thinking ahead, but this will be a pretty neat part of the build.

How about some ideas for building a set of doors from scratch?

My basic wishlist for that....

-Has to be a hard door with a hard window and have a lock.
-I'd like the top half of the door to come off like on a jeep.
-The window needs some ventilation capability

Lets start there and see where it goes. Remember, these ideas have to be fairly practical, the easier to build the better, and cost effective.

NO....I don't want to buy a set of OEM style doors.

Go.
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:42 PM   #185 (permalink)
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It might be time for you to try your hand at fiberglass. You can make anything you like. Sheet metal is probably the easiest choice though. Don't know how many jeep door variations you've owned, but I've tried them all and full hard doors with roll up windows are the best in my opinion. Second best are hard half doors with soft uppers that have the hard sliding windows. Half doors are sweet for trails, but tube doors can give you the same arm rest advantage without the damage risk.
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:44 PM   #186 (permalink)
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First determine if it is frame-less window or not. Think of small unloved vehicles that have this type of door. See if you can find a commando. Came with metal half doors and roll up windows. May get them for cheap and has all the attributes for study.
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:55 PM   #187 (permalink)
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How about an extruded aluminum frame with T-slots for fasteners. Hammer and dolly work to cover it.
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Old 11-25-2015, 02:55 PM   #188 (permalink)
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It might be time for you to try your hand at fiberglass. You can make anything you like. Sheet metal is probably the easiest choice though. Don't know how many jeep door variations you've owned, but I've tried them all and full hard doors with roll up windows are the best in my opinion. Second best are hard half doors with soft uppers that have the hard sliding windows. Half doors are sweet for trails, but tube doors can give you the same arm rest advantage without the damage risk.
Good stuff, thanks for the input. I agree for the most part.

I think roll up hard doors are fine, but on most jeeps, and cruisers, the bottom of the glass is too high. When you roll down the window it doesn't feel right to stick your arm out....kinda too high. When you take half doors off that is just about the perfect height for visibility and comfort.

I had a TJ with half doors and soft uppers. Honestly that worked pretty well. I've never had the sliding uppers....that sounds interesting. I do wonder about the window opening size. I don't want a soft upper. I want the upper to be hard with a hard window that all locks up tight.

I don't really want more than one set of doors.
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Old 11-25-2015, 02:58 PM   #189 (permalink)
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First determine if it is frame-less window or not. Think of small unloved vehicles that have this type of door. See if you can find a commando. Came with metal half doors and roll up windows. May get them for cheap and has all the attributes for study.
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How about an extruded aluminum frame with T-slots for fasteners. Hammer and dolly work to cover it.
With the way the FJ40 door opening is designed ( at least the oem bottom half ) , I think the seal has to be in the corner of the door frame. I think it is a triangle shaped bulb seal that glues in place.

So.....the window likely needs to have a frame. That frame needs to come apart in the middle. The window can stay with the top half. The window doesn't need to roll down really I guess.
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Old 11-26-2015, 06:25 AM   #190 (permalink)
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Depending on the opening you have to work with, you might consider starting with a Postal door with it's slide up windows. Will be interesting to see what you come up with!
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Old 11-26-2015, 08:20 PM   #191 (permalink)
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if you found some old m38 artic top doors the sliding window portion comes out as a complete functional slider in its own frame and could easily be placed into your new door.
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Old 11-27-2015, 09:32 AM   #192 (permalink)
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if you found some old m38 artic top doors the sliding window portion comes out as a complete functional slider in its own frame and could easily be placed into your new door.
Could you post some pics of yours so I can see how everything is assembled?
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Old 11-27-2015, 01:30 PM   #193 (permalink)
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no problem, but it will be next weekend...
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Old 11-29-2015, 05:51 PM   #194 (permalink)
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Some good progress this weekend....



I got the tub all prepped and lifted up onto the table. I drew a large 'H' pattern on the table. The body was centered on that left to right. The outside lines are parallel to each other and a good reference line to measure from when I pull the doors. I used the factory seam at the front of the doors to line up the body on the reference line. It was marked out from the center so I knew when the body was centered.



I had to weld in some support on the rear of the tub to hold everything level as I moved things around.



Helpful hint of the day.

If your cutting out panels, once the one cut is done you can hold things a little more 'still' with some panel clamps. This worked great when using a jig saw to cut the 2nd line on the pie cut.



Sometimes you just have to crawl right up on the table to get things done!



After a bit of fitting this is what the final panel gap looked like. I was pretty happy that it worked out this well!



All tack welded back up on the passenger side! I was really happy with how this turned out overall. It is a pretty small change that a lot of people probably won't notice right off. The body is basically going from about 63.5" wide down to about 55.5" wide. Hopefully I can keep all the proportions 'correct' with the width, height, windshield, tub length, etc. so it still looks good.



Here you can see that the side of the body is square/parallel instead of tapered. the back of the door use to touch that line! Each side is being narrowed about 4" for a total of 8" total ( 63.5 down to 55.5 ).



This is an interesting little area. This is what happened to the rear flange line as things where moved around. I am probably going to have to cut the flange off and remake that rear corner so everything lines up again. I plan on making the rear floor panel attach to this flange and use my new spot welder on that flange....

Hopefully I can get the other side done in the next few days. It will be neat to set the body on the frame and start to get an idea of how things are going to look and where the body tub is going to end up.
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Old 11-30-2015, 09:06 AM   #195 (permalink)
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Nice work can't wait to see more.
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Old 11-30-2015, 01:05 PM   #196 (permalink)
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Nice work can't wait to see more.
It will be coming along at a slow and methodical pace probably

Lots of work in this little pickup-esk body tub still to go. I will probably stick just the basic tub on the frame soon(ish) so I can get a reference position for the firewall. I figure I can set the side/side (centered ) and fore/aft position fairly easily. Then the tubs vertical position will float a little bit depending on where I stick the powertrain. I want the belly flat to the frame and no holes in the hood this time....
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Old 11-30-2015, 01:17 PM   #197 (permalink)
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Are you going to cut the last 8-10 inches of the FJ40 body and join to the front to enclose the cab for your pickup?
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Old 11-30-2015, 01:34 PM   #198 (permalink)
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Maybe you could take that toolbox that was under the seat and attach it to the future rear bulkhead for storage.
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Old 11-30-2015, 02:08 PM   #199 (permalink)
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Are you going to cut the last 8-10 inches of the FJ40 body and join to the front to enclose the cab for your pickup?
Nope. I will be making that all from scratch.

I am basically going to 'hide' the cage and skin it to form the rear part of the body. I will be using 2x2x.120 for the B-pillar (verticals) and 1.5x1.5x.120 for most of the rest of the structure ( halo, rear spreader at the belt line, floor brace, etc). I will be using a little 1.5" round tube for the A-pillar stuff along with some formed plate in the dash area.

I am only going to change the length from stock FJ45 dimensions about 2.75-3". That should give me a bit of extra leg room without looking too different from stock. I don't like the look of the longer pickup tubs.

I'm also going to be playing around with some of the lines on the tub a little bit to try and keep things proportional. I will be cutting off the 'extra' sheetmetal on the rocker panel so I can run frame mounted rockers and maintain some decent clearance. I may raise the belt line slightly. I may chop the windshield/top down a little bit. I tend to make as much work as possible for myself and I only move things a little bit.....1-3" at most generally.

For reference, I was able to find pics of a 1-4" chop in rough form....



Stock dimension FJ45 tub.



1" windshield frame chop from another build on Pirate.



2"+ windshield chop from another build on Pirate.



3" chop on an FJ45



4" chop on an FJ40

Rough numbers. I think I will end up chopping the windshield about 1-1.5" and lowering the halo ( roof seam area and top of door ) another 1-1.5". The top panel may also have a slightly reduced crown compared to stock part. I think the stock top panel is about 5" top. I may reduce that down to 3-4" and change the front profile to work with the windshield top height change.

Effectively narrowing the body should make the tub look taller.
The added length behind the door (~3") will make the tub look longer.
I can also change the level of the belt line. (waistline)
I can also change the size of the door and rear windows.
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Old 11-30-2015, 02:09 PM   #200 (permalink)
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Maybe you could take that toolbox that was under the seat and attach it to the future rear bulkhead for storage.
Maybe.

My hope is that the rear panels of the top ( the rear window panels ) will come out and store in the lower part of the body.
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