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Old 11-30-2015, 02:19 PM   #201 (permalink)
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Why chop the windshield at all?
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Old 11-30-2015, 02:59 PM   #202 (permalink)
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Why chop the windshield at all?
I am likely going to have to reduce the height of the top part of the body ( from waistline seam to the top halo) so that the rear window panels will fit in the lower part of the body ( from the floor to the waistline seam ). To change those proportions I will likely have to reduce the height of the windshield.
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Old 12-01-2015, 02:25 PM   #203 (permalink)
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Working through some ideas on what to do with the body proportions....



This is a GIF image ( it should be like a little movie once it loads ) that shows what I was doing as I used photoshop to work through some ideas I have on how to modify the tub.

This isn't exactly like mine will be since it is running a more normal bed and front fenders, but I think you will get the idea.

I really want this hard top to be 'modular' in that I can take off/out certain panels to give that open air feeling and better visibility when possible. That doesn't look like it will be too hard really. What would make a 'modular' top even better is if the panels you remove from the top could be stored in a hidden location 'in' the body that didn't take up a ton of valuable cargo space.

I am most concerned with the 'rear window' panels. These will basically be the upper panels that close in the top between the tub and the top panel. I am imagining making these panels with a 'split' rear design so there is a left and right panel. I would like those panels to be able to be stored down in the rear wall of the tub itself basically behind the seats.

After some rough measuring this idea seem to be a little more complicated than I first envisioned. The proportions of the top vs bottom height in that area where WAY more different than I though. It looks like I will have to raise the back edge ( beltline/waistline ) of the tub about 3" from stock to make this feature work. I thought that would look terrible, but after doing the photochop ROUGHLY to scale I think it gave me a little hope.

The one positive side benefit to raising the rear beltline is that this will allow me to raise the top edge of the bed up. This should make having the rear fender about the same level as the front fenders a little easier. My front fenders are going to actually be small units that are raised about 1" up from the bottom edge of the hood similar to this front clip by Twisted Customs.



In the 'chop I also took all the 'extra' sheetmetal off the bottom of the rocker panel. The FJ40 tub has about 3" of extra material in that area that will be removed. I will then have a 2" tall frame mounted rocker tube mounted under the door. The rocker tube will be painted black like the frame so it shouldn't add visual vertical height since the body is going to be a lighter/brighter color.
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Old 12-01-2015, 07:29 PM   #204 (permalink)
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The GIF is cool. Can you post the pictures individually and number them?
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Old 12-01-2015, 07:54 PM   #205 (permalink)
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The GIF is cool. Can you post the pictures individually and number them?
I'll try and work on that.

Whatcha thinking?
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Old 12-01-2015, 08:23 PM   #206 (permalink)
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There are things I like about each picture. I think numbering them will make it easier for everyone to give you there thoughts and ideas.
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Old 12-01-2015, 08:41 PM   #207 (permalink)
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Ok.....let me give this a try to get the order right....



Stock



#1, Basically raised the fenders, cut the rockers off, lowered the front part of the body, and raised the rear beltline about 3"



#2, eliminated the rear corner windows in the 'top', and stretched the tub about 2"



#3, added another inch or two of stretch...maybe 3-4" total. Lowered the bottom of the door window to make the side windows larger.



#4, straightened out the rear upper part of the door opening, raised the door handle and eliminated the horizontal rib in the door.



#5, added the rib back in the door in a balanced position



#6, added the separation line to the B-pillar for the hidden cage idea.
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Last edited by Mieser; 12-01-2015 at 08:43 PM.
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Old 12-02-2015, 10:01 AM   #208 (permalink)
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I like bits of all of them. I really like the wrap around back window with a little stretch in the cab. I like the bigger window in the door and the raised door handle with the raised belt line. I totally understand getting rid of the curved window in the top, if you do get rid of it I like the door being strait.
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Old 12-02-2015, 10:20 AM   #209 (permalink)
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I think the 2 in. stretch looks better than the 4 in. as well as the vertical B-Pillar. The proportions in the last slide with the longer stretch remind me of the FLATTOP wrangler concept a few years back. If you are going to raise the rear bulkhead to keep the ratio of window to bulkhead close to 1:1 you may not want to lower the beltline on the door. (I am making the assumption you don't want the windows to stick up above the bulkhead for protection when stored.) Although it will look a little more dull with a straight line from the windows around to the back of the cab to the bulkhead. I don't know. A rear 3/4 view would tell better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkjdntvGvv0
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Old 12-02-2015, 10:25 AM   #210 (permalink)
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I like bits of all of them. I really like the wrap around back window with a little stretch in the cab. I like the bigger window in the door and the raised door handle with the raised belt line. I totally understand getting rid of the curved window in the top, if you do get rid of it I like the door being strait.
I don't have the curved rear window parts at all, it would be pretty challenging to replicate/buy.

My rear corner radius is not going to be stock either. I am going to skin some 1.5" square tube mandrel bends that have a 5.25" OD radius. It is close enough to stock to look ok, but probably not close enough to try the factory corner windows. The rear upper top corners on the factory FJ45 are also a compound curve I think. The back tapers slightly forward.

The good news is that those corner windows will be in a panel that would be totally modular. I can remake it any time I want if I just had to have the corner windows.

One thought I had a while back was to make the entire panels out of lexan. Then the entire thing could be a window! It would make for great visibility but I suspect it would look kinda funny and would be REALLY hot if the sun was coming through it onto the back of your head.

What do you mean with 'the door being straight'?
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Old 12-02-2015, 10:35 AM   #211 (permalink)
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I think the 2 in. stretch looks better than the 4 in. as well as the vertical B-Pillar. The proportions in the last slide with the longer stretch remind me of the FLATTOP wrangler concept a few years back. If you are going to raise the rear bulkhead to keep the ratio of window to bulkhead close to 1:1 you may not want to lower the beltline on the door. (I am making the assumption you don't want the windows to stick up above the bulkhead for protection when stored.) Although it will look a little more dull with a straight line from the windows around to the back of the cab to the bulkhead. I don't know. A rear 3/4 view would tell better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkjdntvGvv0
The latest math says that the total stretch will be 2.56" longer than stock in the real world, it is hard to replicate that in scale on the computer when 'chopping. I agree with you in that the shorter stretch look a bit 'better'

If I do a one piece door I want the bottom of the glass to be at a comfortable level to stick your elbow out when the window is down. With the narrower cabin I suspect the windows will be down when possible to keep it from getting two stuffy.

Doors in general are still a big challenge. Building doors with glass that moves, door handles, and locks all from scratch without pulling my hair out will fun.....

I like the Flattop reference. That is a neat rig. In my photo-chopping I kept the stock-ish fenders when I was moving stuff around. I will not have stock like fenders at all. I will only have small front fender-ets integrated in the hood like the Twisted Customs front clip. I don't want a big fender that will get in the way....and I don't want to make fenders out of heavy skinned tube. The rear fenders on the bed are just going to be some simple aluminum sheet units. I don't have to worry about tire coverage being in Colorado I want to keep the body as small as practical so it doesn't get torn up on harder trails....
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Old 12-02-2015, 01:17 PM   #212 (permalink)
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Love the photo shop work you did with the pic of my 45!! Makes me want to build a trail version of it now.

I look forward to seeing the rest of your build.
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Old 12-02-2015, 03:27 PM   #213 (permalink)
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I was referring to the window frame. Without the curved class the window frame that follows the same line as the edge of the door looks better in my opinion. I do like the 2" stretch. It makes the top look a little odd to me though. Maybe have the rear of the top tilt forward a few degrees. Basically tilt the top of the back window forward.
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Old 12-02-2015, 05:44 PM   #214 (permalink)
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You'd have to rig it to "swing" instead of slide, but the mail jeep door has a lot of what you are looking for. And the spring loaded "lift" window without a standard regulator is interesting. Skin it and reshape the A-pillar fit.

It's going to look cool regardless!
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Old 12-02-2015, 05:54 PM   #215 (permalink)
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You'd have to rig it to "swing" instead of slide, but the mail jeep door has a lot of what you are looking for. And the spring loaded "lift" window without a standard regulator is interesting. Skin it and reshape the A-pillar fit.

It's going to look cool regardless!
Do you have any pictures of that door/window mechanism?
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Old 12-03-2015, 08:32 AM   #216 (permalink)
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I will only have small front fender-ets integrated in the hood like the Twisted Customs front clip. I don't want a big fender that will get in the way....and I don't want to make fenders out of heavy skinned tube. The rear fenders on the bed are just going to be some simple aluminum sheet units. I don't have to worry about tire coverage being in Colorado I want to keep the body as small as practical so it doesn't get torn up on harder trails....
I vote for more fender than the twisted customs. It gives the vehicle a more finished look. A turned down edge on the fender gives the feeling of more modified vehicle than buggy. Keep size down to keep from trail damage. The lack of fenders on Chris D. Vehicle this year on UA leave something to be desired. You aren't afraid of a little more body work are you?
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Old 12-03-2015, 09:30 AM   #217 (permalink)
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I vote for more fender than the twisted customs. It gives the vehicle a more finished look. A turned down edge on the fender gives the feeling of more modified vehicle than buggy. Keep size down to keep from trail damage. The lack of fenders on Chris D. Vehicle this year on UA leave something to be desired. You aren't afraid of a little more body work are you?
I'll make the little fenders look finished with a nice wire bead edge or something, but I am not making large fenders I will likely have a LITTLE bit more fender than the Twisted Customs clip since I have to blend everything into a factory tub. I'd like to have a small 1-2" fender along the rearward cowl seam that tapers to just about nothing by the rocker area. I think that will be enough to make it look more 'fender' without getting in the way. I want the top of the front fender to be attached to the hood. The rear part will be attached to the body. I'd like to be able to pull a few fasteners and lift out the inner fenders to work on the engine compartment. Nothing should be attached to the inner fenders....no wiring, no plumbing, no nothing.

I want the nose to be small and out of the way. Even with my tires sticking out a LOT on my flat fender the front fenders are still too exposed and get in the way.

My hood won't be pie cut, the TC hood has been narrowed at the front compared to the stock proportions. Mine is going to stay stock width in front. I will be changing the shape of the grill to eliminate the outside corner below the headlights. That corner stands out too much with raised fenders and will be a contact point with the tire while turning.
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Old 12-03-2015, 09:55 AM   #218 (permalink)
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I was referring to the window frame. Without the curved class the window frame that follows the same line as the edge of the door looks better in my opinion. I do like the 2" stretch. It makes the top look a little odd to me though. Maybe have the rear of the top tilt forward a few degrees. Basically tilt the top of the back window forward.
yeah, I agree that not having a perfectly upright rear window plane would look better, it would look less like the body was just 'chopped off. Defender 90/110 look like this because of the way the bodies are built.

Making that happen may or may not be easy. It would sacrifice some head room at the upper rear corner. It also make the rear of the body a little harder to make with some more complex panels/corners.

I think with the complex curve and rear radius on the top panel it would help it look less upright/vertical also. The rear panel is not going to end up being THAT tall really after I raise the rear beltline/waistline.

Good detail stuff, keep it coming.
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Old 12-03-2015, 09:56 AM   #219 (permalink)
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Love the photo shop work you did with the pic of my 45!! Makes me want to build a trail version of it now.

I look forward to seeing the rest of your build.
Thanks for taking such a good picture for me to chop on.
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Old 12-03-2015, 12:27 PM   #220 (permalink)
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Thanks for the link! Looking forward to following your build!
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Old 12-03-2015, 12:51 PM   #221 (permalink)
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What is the track difference between the Lexus and the FJ40?
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Old 12-03-2015, 02:23 PM   #222 (permalink)
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What is the track difference between the Lexus and the FJ40?
A lot. The FJ40 axles are probably 56" wide. The J80 chassis has 63" wide axles.

I'll be running 3.75" backspacing 9" wide wheels with a 13.50 tire. It should be just about 78-79" wide overall depending on actual tire section width.

No tire coverage laws in Colorado

With a 55.5" body the tires are going to stick out a wee bit.
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Old 12-03-2015, 04:42 PM   #223 (permalink)
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I'll try and take one next time I'm at the farm. The regulator is really just an "X" with a spring assist. There is a small "L" handle attached to the glass where you lift up or push down to operate the window.

If you Google "postal jeep door" images you can see it's mostly a square with a small fixed quarter window in the front that could be used or removed.

Here's a crappy Youtube video that shows the inside of the door at least.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLUsbeOmUP0

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Old 12-03-2015, 06:13 PM   #224 (permalink)
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A good evening in the shop!



I had to get a little creative on the pie cut for the Drivers side in order to avoid the extra bumps in the floor. It took a little more fitting with the odd dog leg but I think it was worth it. Curiously the drivers side of the body from centerline was actually wider according to my measurements. I ended up having to take a little extra out of this side to get the door frame where I wanted.



Shop tip of the day. If your removing a pie cut of material, sometimes it helps to work both sides a few inches at a time. This leaves both sides attached much longer and eliminates panel 'rattle' as your cutting.





Here it is all tack welded together! If you look close you can see how much 'extra' I had to cut off on this side compared to the layout template. Overall it turned out just pretty much just like I wanted.

Now I have a 55.5 inch wide FJ45-esk Land Cruiser front tub thingy. I have a few things to button up before I pull it off the table. I need to figure out what to do with the odd little corners where the rear tub seam changed direction. I think I will just have to cut those off and weld in a little new panel. Once that is done I can think about making the rear floor panel extension. Or I could just stick the body on the frame and see what it looks like.
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Old 12-03-2015, 06:41 PM   #225 (permalink)
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With a 55.5" body the tires are going to stick out a wee bit.

Yeah there is some guy here cruising around in a blue Willys that's so wide that when flexed out the tires pop out above the hood.
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