Can incorrectly cranked D1 trailing arms, cause uneven tyre wear? - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
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Old 10-25-2014, 11:02 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Can incorrectly cranked D1 trailing arms, cause uneven tyre wear?

Hi all,

A question for those wiser than me.

Recently made a set of cranked arms up for a customer, I cranked them 12* for a 3" lift (that's what the maths suggested, based on my 10* cranked arms in my 2" lifted RRC), as that's the lift he said he was getting. I did not see the car until he came to fit them, hence couldn't measure anything...

Fitted the arms, however the car was still standard height, a few days later he fitted the lifted coils. Then sent me this pic.



Looks like they're cranked a little too much, bush wear add's to the affect... (they need replacing). I've told him that I'll fix them with good grace, however I have been unable to do so for a while, due to the end of uni term.

He has since claimed that they are causing uneven tyre wear! Is this possible?!?! From his side it is... but I've spoken to quite a few LR techs who call BS. So I pose the question to the PBB!

Note: Both arms are cranked identically, and have identical true lengths. The rear of a D1 has 0 toe and 0 camber from factory anyway... To me, it shouldn't do shit. But I'd like to know if I'm missing something...

So what-say, Rover guys? I'll fix/replace them anyway, just curious.

Cheers
Will
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Old 10-26-2014, 09:17 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Looks like his bushings are compressed enough. That washer looks loose.
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Old 10-26-2014, 05:39 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Un even rear tire wear?
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Old 10-26-2014, 08:37 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Pics of the alleged tires?
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Old 10-26-2014, 09:16 PM   #5 (permalink)
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this should be interesting
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Old 10-26-2014, 10:01 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Looks like his bushings are compressed enough. That washer looks loose.
"aren't"?

Lots of bushing material worn away... they are tight on the crush tube, I've told him they need replacing...

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Originally Posted by Kyle_T View Post
Un even rear tire wear?
Yup. The other LR techs I've talked to are saying the shocks are fucked. My theory, and a few guys agree, is that the trailing arm pins are moving fore and aft in the bushes, due to the worn away material. Hence accentuating rear steer on accel/overrun. It's clutching at straws, but until I alter/replace the arms, and there's new bushes in there, I feel somewhat curious/responsible to offer a solution.

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Pics of the alleged tires?
Working on it...

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Originally Posted by afirover View Post
this should be interesting
Tell me about it...

Cheers
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Old 10-26-2014, 10:09 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The issue is that he is blaming my arms... and wants it rectified.
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Old 10-27-2014, 06:48 AM   #8 (permalink)
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The issue is that he is blaming my arms... and wants it rectified.
Tell him not to be a cheap fuck and replace his bushings!
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Old 10-27-2014, 08:45 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Tell him not to be a cheap fuck and replace his bushings!
That's where we are at now...
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Old 10-27-2014, 11:15 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Did you use stock LR trailing arms and mod them?
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Old 10-27-2014, 11:52 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Did you use stock LR trailing arms and mod them?
Yep, they're braced from end to end too.
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Old 10-28-2014, 03:52 AM   #12 (permalink)
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How did you lengthen them?
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Old 10-28-2014, 05:27 AM   #13 (permalink)
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How did you lengthen them?
I didn't, they only lose 1.5mm true length with the crank, and with the lift, considering that the A-frame is shorter, the pinion angle is more inline with what it should be anyway.

That's what I found with my car anyway, I tried a few different lengths when I did the first set..

The best solution is to extend the arms a good 200 to 300mm IMO, but right now we don't want to hack at chassis'.
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Old 10-28-2014, 09:18 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishEH View Post
Looks like his bushings are compressed enough. That washer looks loose.
It's not a washer, it's part of a tube that runs through the bushing.

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this should be interesting
Do you remember how bad my DI was when the bushings were knackered?

IF he has worn bushings at either end, the axle will move on acceleration and deceleration. Typically, the right side will wear more severely than the left causing the axle to flop around. If not corrected, it will result in tire wear and eventually, shock absorber breakage.

To answer your question, if what you say is true, I'd look to bushings and bushing attachment points as they can become distorted as well.
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Old 10-28-2014, 11:03 AM   #15 (permalink)
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It's not a washer, it's part of a tube that runs through the bushing.
Gee IDK, I'm pretty sure that's a big ass washer.....
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Old 10-28-2014, 03:52 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Ya get pics of the tires. Something doesn't sound right.


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Old 10-28-2014, 06:54 PM   #17 (permalink)
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It's not a washer, it's part of a tube that runs through the bushing.



Do you remember how bad my DI was when the bushings were knackered?

IF he has worn bushings at either end, the axle will move on acceleration and deceleration. Typically, the right side will wear more severely than the left causing the axle to flop around. If not corrected, it will result in tire wear and eventually, shock absorber breakage.

To answer your question, if what you say is true, I'd look to bushings and bushing attachment points as they can become distorted as well.
Depending on the brand, the 'washer' is either separate, or part of the crush tube in the bush. Doesn't matter as it's tight on that. But I can see the fore-aft movement due to the shagged bushes, causing problems...

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Gee IDK, I'm pretty sure that's a big ass washer.....
Can't remember if this guys bushes have a separate of fixed washer... Either way, when he ordered the arms I asked him if he wanted bushes too (I get my gear at trade price), that was a no... When I fitted the arms I said to change them ASAP.

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Ya get pics of the tires. Something doesn't sound right.
Nope, not yet, but my bets are on his bushes causing the problem. Good to see a fair bit of agreement.

Cheers Guys.
Will.
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Old 10-29-2014, 01:43 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Can I just say with my limited experience I can tell you right now that the bush you have provided an image of is not showing signs of an over cranked arm.

Your arms are not over cranked.

The opening at the base of the bush is due to a bend in that metal portion of the bush (the washer is bent), from UNDER cranked arms / too much down travel. Happens to my bushes all the time. Even with my arms being cranked for a 5" lift.

The bushes should be replaced with genuine LR. But are probably 'ok' to use for a lil longer if need be.

Without looking at the type of wear present on the tread its hard to state what the cause of the tyre wear is. But driving style aside, wear is more likely due to either, bad shock selection or a dud shock all together. If it is from the suspension links then it's a failure to maintain and replace bushings (could be any of the 6 rubber bushes failed or the ball joint itself).

Your customer is being difficult.
Hope you can sort this.
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Old 10-30-2014, 04:30 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Gee IDK, I'm pretty sure that's a big ass washer.....
I'd have thought you'd learn by now.

It is a flange on a tube that runs all the way through the bushing.

If you had any decent education, you'd know A: not to argue such topics with me and B: you'd know how it went together.
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Old 10-30-2014, 05:48 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I'd have thought you'd learn by now.

It is a flange on a tube that runs all the way through the bushing.

If you had any decent education, you'd know A: not to argue such topics with me and B: you'd know how it went together.
I was thinking of the Orange Poly bushings I had. That was a separate washer with those.
Either way, the pictured bushing looks to be garbage and will continue to be garbage until replaced with a GENUINE or Poly bushing.
As fer edjumacashun, I've gotten this far in life without a college degree and I don't have the hefty loans associated with one. In 13 years I went from an entry level employee to the boss at 34. I pull a decent enough salary where I can afford to have my wife stay home with our kids rather than ship them of to some daycare to be raised.
So I'm just fine being "uneducated".
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Old 10-30-2014, 06:51 AM   #21 (permalink)
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need i say more PLAY NICE
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Old 10-31-2014, 07:11 PM   #22 (permalink)
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my drivers side trailing arm on my Deefer has about a 1/2" bend in it from draggin over logs and rocks hte passenger side is perfectly straight. it has been that way for 5 years, the truck has been on a laser alignment table twice and driven 30000kms since I bent the arm. the tires wear even and the truck runs straight at highway speeds. the overall length of the arm changed very little when I bent it so it never affected the alignment appreciably. just my personal experience.
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Old 10-31-2014, 07:12 PM   #23 (permalink)
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and my trailing arm has a big ass washer on it too!
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Old 11-03-2014, 02:37 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Can I just say with my limited experience I can tell you right now that the bush you have provided an image of is not showing signs of an over cranked arm.

Your arms are not over cranked.

The opening at the base of the bush is due to a bend in that metal portion of the bush (the washer is bent), from UNDER cranked arms / too much down travel. Happens to my bushes all the time. Even with my arms being cranked for a 5" lift.

The bushes should be replaced with genuine LR. But are probably 'ok' to use for a lil longer if need be.

Without looking at the type of wear present on the tread its hard to state what the cause of the tyre wear is. But driving style aside, wear is more likely due to either, bad shock selection or a dud shock all together. If it is from the suspension links then it's a failure to maintain and replace bushings (could be any of the 6 rubber bushes failed or the ball joint itself).

Your customer is being difficult.
Hope you can sort this.
Cheers Grimace, that was my line of thinking aswell, I had a look at them on the weekend, and they are probably a degree over cranked, but there's no way in hell that he has a 3" lift, so he ordered them wrong, and here we are...

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Originally Posted by PTSchram View Post
I'd have thought you'd learn by now.

It is a flange on a tube that runs all the way through the bushing.

If you had any decent education, you'd know A: not to argue such topics with me and B: you'd know how it went together.
Depends on the brand of bushing, genuine ones are as you describe them, but my genuine early RRC (small hole) ones have washers and a separate crush tube.

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my drivers side trailing arm on my Deefer has about a 1/2" bend in it from draggin over logs and rocks hte passenger side is perfectly straight. it has been that way for 5 years, the truck has been on a laser alignment table twice and driven 30000kms since I bent the arm. the tires wear even and the truck runs straight at highway speeds. the overall length of the arm changed very little when I bent it so it never affected the alignment appreciably. just my personal experience.
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and my trailing arm has a big ass washer on it too!
I made a set for a mate aswell, he had a bent left arm for quite a while, with no affect on tyre wear at all, I'm completely un-convinced that my arms could cause any such issue.

Anyway, I ran into old mate on the weekend whilst 4WDing, and took some pics for you guys...

Left side bushing... not sure wtf is going on here, the arms is slightly over-cranked, but the bushing is just retarded.


Right Side bushing...


Now onto the tyre wear, (left side, passengers in Aus )



Right side (drivers )



To me it looks like the tyres are just torn up from rocks off-road, I had a mate with me, and we both think they're wearing on the right hand shoulder of each tyre (looking from behind the car), as well as un-even lug heights due to what I'd guess as being stuffed shocks. Either way, it's something I don't and won't take responsibility for.

Cheers
Will
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