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Old 07-04-2015, 07:04 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Carbs for a 4.6 V8

I am planning to replace my old 3.5 V8 with a 4.6. Ultimately I will fit the Thor injection manifold with a Megasquirt ECU but as a first stage I want to investigate fitting the old 3.5 Zenith Stromberg CD175 carbs to the 4.6.

For sure larger jets etc will be required but I cannot find anywhere what the maximum size cylinder/size the twin carbs can handle.

The largest engine I can find that has these carbs fitted as twins is the Jag 4.2 6 cylinder (350cc cylinder volume). While a 6 cylinder 2.6l landrover engine with a single carb has to provide enough air for a 433cc cylinder volume.

A 4.6 V8 only has a cylinder volume of 287cc so in theory the carbs suitably jetted should be able to provide enough air.

So any one put the CD175s on a 4.6 V8 and are there any issues? Likewise what alternative carbs are there that are suitable for offroad, steep slope use?

Thanks

Garry
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Old 07-07-2015, 02:38 AM   #2 (permalink)
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So - no one has a 4.6 on carbs?
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Old 07-07-2015, 08:14 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Carbs for a 4.6 V8

Hi,

I used SU HIF6 on my 3.9 with BDR needles - went well. It went even better with BBC needles!

Avoid Strombergs, the diaphragms don't seem to like modern petrol and soon fail.
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Old 07-07-2015, 09:19 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks - but I am talking a 4.6 not a 3.9 and I know strombergs work fine on a 3.9. I have not had any issues running my stombergs (I have them on two different vehicles (a total of 6 carbs) on 91 ron fuel - however I do not use any fuel that had ethanol in it - hence I do not buy BP fuels as it has ethanol in it.

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Old 07-07-2015, 09:23 PM   #5 (permalink)
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for the love all of all thing rover why ?
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Old 07-08-2015, 01:25 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Why what??

I am wanting to put in a 4.6 to replace my carb 3.5. I have the thor injection manifold for the 4.6 but a 4.6 ECU does not work outside its donor vehicle so I will need something like megasquirt but with everything that is needed is very expensive. So I am wanting to put the 3.5 carbs on until I go to part 2 of the project later and sort the injection.

I just do not know if the 3.5 carbs can handle the 4.6 airflow but cannot find anyone has used them.

Cheers

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Old 07-08-2015, 06:59 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Old 07-08-2015, 07:03 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Why what??

I am wanting to put in a 4.6 to replace my carb 3.5. I have the thor injection manifold for the 4.6 but a 4.6 ECU does not work outside its donor vehicle so I will need something like megasquirt but with everything that is needed is very expensive.

Cheers

Garry
IF you were to use the GEMS EMS ECU you would not have this problem and the wiring harness and ECU ought to be available dirt cheap.

I can see absolutely no justification for what you are suggesting given the ease of doing it right and welcoming in the 21st century.
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Old 07-08-2015, 08:49 AM   #9 (permalink)
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IF you were to use the GEMS EMS ECU you would not have this problem and the wiring harness and ECU ought to be available dirt cheap.
It is not a Gems engine - is a Thor.
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Old 07-08-2015, 10:41 AM   #10 (permalink)
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It is not a Gems engine - is a Thor.
The only difference is the CkPS mount and flywheel
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Old 07-08-2015, 11:56 AM   #11 (permalink)
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IF you were to use the GEMS EMS ECU you would not have this problem and the wiring harness and ECU ought to be available dirt cheap.

I can see absolutely no justification for what you are suggesting given the ease of doing it right and welcoming in the 21st century.
^^^^^^ This

Or this Self Tuning EZ-EFI Fuelairspark.com

Or This https://www.holley.com/products/fuel...erminator_efi/

Or This https://www.holley.com/products/fuel.../parts/0-90670

Would be way better than zeniths or MegaSquirt.
MegaSquirt is old used up technology do as PT says and try something from this century.
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Old 07-08-2015, 12:53 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Someone has to point out the obvious...

1999 was last century


GEMS is definitely the way to go. There are 3 obstacles as I see it. 1. You have to kiss someone's ass and probably pay a few hundred to get the alarm disabled

2. The p1317 abs code. Without functioning abs the check engine light goes on. An always on light is just as worthless as no light

3. Whoever knows how to tune them doesn't share any info. Mail order tuning sucks
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Old 07-08-2015, 01:01 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Someone has to point out the obvious...

1999 was last century


GEMS is definitely the way to go. There are 3 obstacles as I see it. 1. You have to kiss someone's ass and probably pay a few hundred to get the alarm disabled
I don't know about this. If you search, you'll find it

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2. The p1317 abs code. Without functioning abs the check engine light goes on. An always on light is just as worthless as no light
Curious, hasn't been a problem with those I've built.

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Originally Posted by robertf03 View Post
3. Whoever knows how to tune them doesn't share any info. Mail order tuning sucks
I'm working on it, but the curve is gonna be flat for a long time as I need to get good with 14CUx before I get into the GEMS stuff. I do have chips purchased and have at least been able to communicate with the individual chips on a rudimentary basis, have changed some data points but there just isn't much documentation out there on the GEMS EMS.
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Old 07-08-2015, 01:10 PM   #14 (permalink)
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are you communicating with them with a chip reader?
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Old 07-08-2015, 01:15 PM   #15 (permalink)
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are you communicating with them with a chip reader?
Reader/writer/programmer.

I've gotten lucky and had some ECUs with socketed chips

Last edited by PTSchram; 07-08-2015 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 07-08-2015, 01:18 PM   #16 (permalink)
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care to share any of your readings?
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Old 07-08-2015, 09:28 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by robertf03 View Post
1. You have to kiss someone's ass and probably pay a few hundred to get the alarm disabled

2. The p1317 abs code. Without functioning abs the check engine light goes on. An always on light is just as worthless as no light

3. Whoever knows how to tune them doesn't share any info. Mail order tuning sucks
please try a quick search I know the info is out there because I put it out there but you must look




oh please for the love of all things rover pls just do a search for the info you seek instead of just running your trap ....hugs and kisses AFI
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Old 07-08-2015, 10:13 PM   #18 (permalink)
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well, there wasn't really any question, so I'm not sure what to search for

I know of no way to ditch the 10AS without a rover specific scan tool, never really looked in to it since I have no intention of disabling the alarm in my vehicle, but maybe you want to help out the original author of this thread who does not have an alarm or even a wiring harness and tell him how to convert to GEMS without an alarm rather than a vague "the truth is out there" response.

Some ecu calibrations seem to ignore the p1317 while others don't. My 97 D1 is one of those. have you found away to completely remove the wabco unit without triggering a fault on all gems ecm calibrations?

And tuning... those who know don't want to share. It's a shame. An international mail order tune should not cost what it does. If you know something about tuning the eproms with real useful information like addresses and checksum information I know you haven't posted it, its been a routine search of mine for a long time. I was hoping someone would figure it out before I had to.
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Old 07-08-2015, 10:24 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The only difference is the CkPS mount and flywheel
And the inlet system, injectors and is sequential - is Gems compatible with the Thor injection system.

But we are off topic - as I said the injection system is phase 2 of the overall project.

I want to use what I have now and get the vehicle on the road now, ideally on rejetted carbs and when the engine is in the vehicle and running - phase 2 will start. If I wait to sort an injection and ignition system the vehicle will not get back on the road in the foreseeable future.

On the Holly carb use - I have access to a modified manifold with a holly fitted but even when modified they are not satisfactory in very steep climbs due to fuel starvation. Fine on a street driver but not so much for steep offroad use.

So can we leave the injection discussion to a later thread and continue with the carb discussion.

Thanks

Last edited by garrycol; 07-08-2015 at 10:26 PM.
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Old 07-09-2015, 12:04 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Fit it with a pair of SU HIF6 or HIF 44 carburetters.

Why?

1. There are at least an order of magnitude more needle profiles for SU carburetters than for Strombergs. This makes it far easier to get the fuelling correct for the 4.6 (which was why I explained about running my 3.9 on these).

2. There is no diaphragm to split, irrespective of what petrol you run through them.

3. Even backward thinking Land-Rover ditched Strombergs in favour of SU's
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Old 07-09-2015, 12:51 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Thanks for those comments which are relevant to my initial question. Just a minor correction - Landrover (and Jaguar) ditched SUs and went to the Strombergs (not the other way around), not because they thought the Strommies were better but to meet new emission requirements at the time that the SUs could not meet. But that is a digression.

Cheers

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Old 07-09-2015, 10:00 AM   #22 (permalink)
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well, there wasn't really any question, so I'm not sure what to search for

I know of no way to ditch the 10AS without a rover specific scan tool, never really looked in to it since I have no intention of disabling the alarm in my vehicle, but maybe you want to help out the original author of this thread who does not have an alarm or even a wiring harness and tell him how to convert to GEMS without an alarm rather than a vague "the truth is out there" response.

Some ecu calibrations seem to ignore the p1317 while others don't. My 97 D1 is one of those. have you found away to completely remove the wabco unit without triggering a fault on all gems ecm calibrations?

And tuning... those who know don't want to share. It's a shame. An international mail order tune should not cost what it does. If you know something about tuning the eproms with real useful information like addresses and checksum information I know you haven't posted it, its been a routine search of mine for a long time. I was hoping someone would figure it out before I had to.
Gary and I do not advertise the mechanism by which one can disable the alarm due to our not wanting to provide info to folks who may have less than honorable intention.

The alarm bypass cannot be done with the scan tools as there is no function in the ECU to do this.

IIRC, some Defender variations lacked the rough road issue.

When I figure out the EEPROMs, I'll share as I don't really see it as being of economic value as I feel that a "Tune" requires the vehicle as setup and access to a dyno-I have two customers who have them One of whom will allow me to do the tuning on my trucks.
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Old 07-09-2015, 11:51 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Thanks for those comments which are relevant to my initial question. Just a minor correction - Landrover (and Jaguar) ditched SUs and went to the Strombergs (not the other way around), not because they thought the Strommies were better but to meet new emission requirements at the time that the SUs could not meet. But that is a digression.

Cheers

Garry
IIRC
In the last years of the V8 they returned to SU in the form of the HIF44 in Defender V8 for export market (Gulf states and AUS)
Happy to help.
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Old 07-10-2015, 12:09 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Old 07-10-2015, 03:15 AM   #25 (permalink)
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IIRC
In the last years of the V8 they returned to SU in the form of the HIF44 in Defender V8 for export market (Gulf states and AUS)
Happy to help.
I don't know - we never had Defender V8s - we have only ever had diesels. I would have thought any V8 Defenders would have been injected.

Cheers

Garry
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