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Old 01-19-2016, 11:47 AM   #1 (permalink)
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zf4hp22 converter drama

So my volvo d24t swap has been getting a lot of use in my d1 but this morning I had my first drivetrain issue. It did not seem to want to free wheel and shifts were really harsh. My first thought is that the converter checkout and locked up... Any other things I could be missing before I pull this thing apart? I checked the fluid before a trip on new years and it was a little low. I topped it off and it read perfect. Now it reads a good deal over full. Maybe the converter wont take any fluid?
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Old 01-19-2016, 06:05 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Checked level with engine warm and running?
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Old 01-19-2016, 06:12 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Checked level with engine warm and running?
Yes sir.

Called a couple converter shops and both say that this is a trans issue and not a converter issue.
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Old 01-20-2016, 05:36 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Sounds like tv cable isn't set or hooked up
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Old 01-20-2016, 12:15 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Sounds like tv cable isn't set or hooked up

It is hooked up on the throttle end of things. It is being pulled back into the trans as it returns but there was a distinctive click when you pulled it all the way out. Seems like its not doing that anymore.

When i first built it i took it around the block without the kickdown cable hooked up and it drove... it would just go through the gears quick and slip if you gave it any power. Its still freewheeled and idled in gear.
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Old 01-21-2016, 09:01 PM   #6 (permalink)
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How much torque do you think you were putting through it?
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Old 02-01-2016, 12:04 PM   #7 (permalink)
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How much torque do you think you were putting through it?
Less than 300ftlb I would think.
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Old 02-02-2016, 10:27 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Less than 300ftlb I would think.
300 ft-lb (400Nm) was about what the 4.6's were doing. But they were a ZF HP24. I don't know where the safe limits lie for a bog standard HP22. Does anyone have a good guide?

How much boost are you running and what EGT? I might be able to calculate your torque from that.
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Old 02-03-2016, 11:13 AM   #9 (permalink)
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300 ft-lb (400Nm) was about what the 4.6's were doing. But they were a ZF HP24. I don't know where the safe limits lie for a bog standard HP22. Does anyone have a good guide?

How much boost are you running and what EGT? I might be able to calculate your torque from that.
I own a dyno, I can let you know what it is once its rolling again. I likely damaged the trans towing the 8000+ lb dyno. I run ~24psi egts are throttle controled, I can get them very high if I want. Try not to go over 1200F.

Never driven one with the stock v8 but I would hope it is faster than mine. I have a new to me trans lined up. Anything worth doing before I put it back in?
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Old 02-05-2016, 12:44 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I have no experience strengthening the ZF boxes. I do own two (one on a 300tdi, other behind a 3.9 V8) but I plan to own none eventually. The V8 will be sold and the 300tdi converted to manual.

Basic torque calcs:
24psi
70% efficient turbos, 60% effective intercooler.
2.4L idi diesel at 2000rpm with BSFC of 240g/kwh
Comes out to ~340Nm.

So overtorque shouldn't be the problem. You're putting out only a bit more torque than a 3.9v8. Could it be an existing issue or did it get hot?
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Old 02-05-2016, 10:55 AM   #11 (permalink)
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4HP22 is rated for 380nm, 4HP24 is 450nm.
You can get away with a bit more for each with six and eight cylinder engines (a bit gentler on the box) when running a big cooler.

The problem you mention with the kickdown not making the click when pulled right out might suggest something in the mechanism has broken preventing it working properly.
The cable also controls the line pressure for the clutches, how much pressure is applied to engage them.
Heavy towing and lots of throttle with no kickdown it's likely worn the clutches which would perhaps explain the rough shifting etc.

New box sounds a good plan. Fresh oil and filter before it goes in is a good idea, along with giving the cooler and lines a good flush out as you don't want the remains of an internal failure in the new box.
Hopefully the new box comes with its own converter also.
You've probably read about being careful putting the converter in the box too. Get it wrong and you can fuck the oil pump.
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Old 02-05-2016, 12:26 PM   #12 (permalink)
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4HP22 is rated for 380nm, 4HP24 is 450nm.
You can get away with a bit more for each with six and eight cylinder engines (a bit gentler on the box) when running a big cooler.

The problem you mention with the kickdown not making the click when pulled right out might suggest something in the mechanism has broken preventing it working properly.
The cable also controls the line pressure for the clutches, how much pressure is applied to engage them.
Heavy towing and lots of throttle with no kickdown it's likely worn the clutches which would perhaps explain the rough shifting etc.

New box sounds a good plan. Fresh oil and filter before it goes in is a good idea, along with giving the cooler and lines a good flush out as you don't want the remains of an internal failure in the new box.
Hopefully the new box comes with its own converter also.
You've probably read about being careful putting the converter in the box too. Get it wrong and you can fuck the oil pump.
The kickdown was working when I was towing. It only felt weird after the trans pulled this stunt. I have not read anything about the converter but its been working well for 3 years since I did this whole bastard swap. I am thinking about doing some 1.4 transfer case gears while its all apart to get my highway cruise rpm up a bit (2.4l 6 does nothing at 2000rpm)
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Old 02-05-2016, 01:49 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Fair one, I'd suggest the two might be related, but I'm picking at information to see if there's any plausible explanation.

Ashcroft list the converter/oil pump thing on their website, and I know a few people who've broken pumps putting them together in a heavy handed fashion, you obviously got it right when you did it.
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Old 02-05-2016, 02:30 PM   #14 (permalink)
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any chance your tranny is overfull with transfer case fluid?
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Old 02-05-2016, 03:06 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DasLandRoverMan View Post

You've probably read about being careful putting the converter in the box too. Get it wrong and you can fuck the oil pump.
I've found that standing it on end is the only way to get the converter aligned and not break anything.

As for burning it up, these transmissions are bulletproof. I don't know how you can tear one up-given how I've thrashed on them with no issues. The only one I ever had a problem with was burning up the front seal and had I known that was all it needed, I wouldn't have swapped it out. When I tore the old one apart before its rebuild, I was amazed I could still read the part numbers on the clutches.

Heavy duty clutches are available-it was nice when the wife worked for the owners of Raybestos
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Old 02-06-2016, 02:11 PM   #16 (permalink)
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any chance your tranny is overfull with transfer case fluid?

I draind the trans and the fluid didnt look like it had any gear oil in it. Lots of junk on the magnetic plug that seemed like clutch material and the fluid toward the end was heay with fiber. Picked up a trans and transfer case this morning
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Old 03-09-2016, 04:38 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I have been super busy at the shop and haven't had time to really mess with this. I was able to pull the pan off my trans before i pulled it out and it actually looks amazingly clean in there. A lot cleaner than the supposedly good used trans I got. This is making me look more to the valve body than the hard parts in the trans. Is there any good diagnostics guides for the valve body itself? Possible for something to stick causing the converter to be locked all the time?
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