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Old 02-09-2016, 10:15 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Grrr LT swap / transducer question

So finally got to wheel the old Range last weekend with the lockers/24 spline and LT230 and I must say it was well worth the work. . The only issue left to fix and I guess I should have read more befor tossing the old borgwarner. . So in the BW there is the cable driven speed transducer thingy...I didnt know at the time it was needed to have a good idle and the LT looks like it has a hall senswer type pick up?? I dont know but I thought i could wier it up and yea. .that dont work. So is there any other way to correct the idle issue without the transducer OR how can I adapt it to the LT?
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Old 02-09-2016, 01:10 PM   #2 (permalink)
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It sounds like you have the disco LT230 that had the VSS plugged direct into the LT230.

The first rangies with electronic speedo, prior to the change from an LT230 to BorgWarner TC (around 90, 91 IIRC), had a separate VSS driven by a short speedo cable that connected to the LT230.

Perhaps that VSS might work for you, but I'm guessing here that they may have used the same type (signal, not necessarily the same cable driven VSS) with the change to a BW TC.

If so then that VSS and cable drive will fit the later disco LT230.
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Old 02-09-2016, 04:39 PM   #3 (permalink)
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You have two choices. You can use the earlier AMR3386, which is a separate box that runs from a short cable or you can use the Disco 1 VSS, part number YBE100540 for sending a signal to the EFI. If you use the Disco 1 option, you need to install a 120 Ohm or so resistor inline to prevent damage to the VSS.

Are you running without a speedometer?

If the VSS on the box currently has two pins, it is the correct one. The plug is the same as a Defender brake light and you just need to add a resistor and wire it in. If it has 3 pins, it is hall effect and you can sell it....
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Old 02-09-2016, 05:19 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Or, you can use the manual transmission fuel map as it processes the VSS input differently-OR, you can obtain an EEPROM burner and use RoverGauge and the burner software (name eludes me, it's on a different computer) and rewrite the code such that the ECU recognizes minimum TPS as zero vehicle speed.

I strongly suspect that all of the bits from the BW to the LT-23- are interchangeable.
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Old 02-09-2016, 05:54 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Pretty sure all of the fuel maps use the VSS to switch idle modes.

Re-writing the code is a large involved job unless you are really into electronics.

Super easy and basically free to add and wire in a Disco 1 VSS and then you have a proper job.
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Old 02-09-2016, 07:57 PM   #6 (permalink)
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You guys are awesome!! Thank you all for the reply's. . . and yes the truck is a 90/91 non abs Hunter and the t case is from a disco with the 2 wire vss mounted on the case side.and speedo is not working because of this issue . Ok so I will see what I can figure out now that you guys gave me some hope ..

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Old 02-10-2016, 04:34 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Pretty sure all of the fuel maps use the VSS to switch idle modes.

Re-writing the code is a large involved job unless you are really into electronics.

Super easy and basically free to add and wire in a Disco 1 VSS and then you have a proper job.
The manual map handles the idle differently and according to the guys who use the Lucas EMS without the input from the VSS, it's more better than the auto map.

The code is available and while I've just begun to really get into the process, there are maps available that have the non-VSS maps and other improvements over the stock map.

He tried to wire the VSS into the circuit and it didn't work
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Old 02-10-2016, 07:45 AM   #8 (permalink)
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He tried to wire the VSS into the circuit and it didn't work
He either has the wrong VSS or did not do it as I stated. I've done multiple 14CUX installs and what I've stated works. I'm not internet wrenching. It is from real world, first hand experience.

If he can't wire a simple VSS with a resistor, he sure as hell is not going to re-flash the EEPROM successfully.
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Old 02-11-2016, 04:12 PM   #9 (permalink)
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He either has the wrong VSS or did not do it as I stated. I've done multiple 14CUX installs and what I've stated works. I'm not internet wrenching. It is from real world, first hand experience.

If he can't wire a simple VSS with a resistor, he sure as hell is not going to re-flash the EEPROM successfully.
To my knowledge, there are only two VSS, those for the cables and those without.


And, I sure hope you aren't suggesting I am internetz wrenching as that's about as far from the truth as one can get...
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Old 02-12-2016, 05:43 AM   #10 (permalink)
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K guys I finally got a day off so Im heading over to grab a resistor and give it a shot. .
Hopefully I didnt hurt the vss by directly wiring it up. i seem to remember there being two black weirs on the vss. does it matter witch direction its wired or what sig]de the resistor goes in?
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Old 02-12-2016, 09:59 AM   #11 (permalink)
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To my knowledge, there are only two VSS, those for the cables and those without.
There are two direct mount VSS. YBE100540, which is the one he needs, used on Disco 1s and YBE100530 used on TD5 and newer Defender which is a hall effect sensor.
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Old 02-12-2016, 10:00 AM   #12 (permalink)
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And, I sure hope you aren't suggesting I am internetz wrenching as that's about as far from the truth as one can get...
YOU were suggesting that I did not know what I was talking about. Not me suggesting you didn't....
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Old 02-12-2016, 10:04 AM   #13 (permalink)
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K guys I finally got a day off so Im heading over to grab a resistor and give it a shot. .
Hopefully I didnt hurt the vss by directly wiring it up. i seem to remember there being two black weirs on the vss. does it matter witch direction its wired or what sig]de the resistor goes in?
It does not matter which side. You probably did kill the VSS. The ECU does not limit current as it expects there to be a resistor and fries the VSS pretty fast without on.

Easy to test. Just measure continuity across the leads and move the vehicle a small amount. It should close and open as the VSS turns.
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Old 02-12-2016, 02:15 PM   #14 (permalink)
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YOU were suggesting that I did not know what I was talking about. Not me suggesting you didn't....

Wow, I certainly didn't mean to say anything of the sort.

I went back and re-read it and didn't read that, but if you did, it wasn't intentional.
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Old 02-16-2016, 03:09 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Ok so got the new vss with the 120ohm inline and still no dice. No speedo and choppy idle . I just put the ohm meter on 2k and tested the original cable driven vss and it was 1 / 150 ohm and the disco vss tested at 1 / 1800. So I guess I have some basic math to do ? Should I try higher numeric resistors ?

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Old 02-16-2016, 03:13 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Ok so got the new vss with the 120ohm inline and still no dice. No speedo and choppy idle . I just put the ohm meter on 2k and tested the original cable driven vss and it was 1 / 150 ohm and the disco vss tested at 1 / 1800. So I guess I have some basic math to do ? Should I try higher numeric resistors ?
Can you transfer the drive gear from the BW case to the LT-230? and use hte original transducer?

(I'm in the tool truck and can't walk over to both and see if it can be done and my new computer on the truck won't run MicroCat)
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Old 02-17-2016, 10:44 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Already tossed the old Tcase so cant swap out parts. . Can I use an early disco ecu? I gotta get this junker through emissions asap :/ been on expired tags for 3 monthes
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Old 02-18-2016, 05:12 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Already tossed the old Tcase so cant swap out parts. . Can I use an early disco ecu? I gotta get this junker through emissions asap :/ been on expired tags for 3 monthes
You can give it a try-nothing more to lose
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Old 02-18-2016, 12:13 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Old 02-18-2016, 01:00 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Since you don't have the VSS working correctly then just unplug it completely and go unplug your stepper(IAC) too since they work off each other and crank the base-idle up to around 750-800rpms and it should be good enough to pass smog. Good luck.
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Old 02-19-2016, 03:27 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Looks to me as though the cable is able to be bolted to the LT-230 in place of the VSS.

Let me guess, you threw the cable and transducer away as well
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Old 02-19-2016, 11:23 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Looks to me as though the cable is able to be bolted to the LT-230 in place of the VSS.

Let me guess, you threw the cable and transducer away as well
This is testing my memory, but I have some recollection that there is an issue with different size of the square drive on the end of the cable and the hole in the speedo pinion of an LT230. Probably something that can be bodged-up to make work.
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Old 02-21-2016, 07:29 AM   #23 (permalink)
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This is testing my memory, but I have some recollection that there is an issue with different size of the square drive on the end of the cable and the hole in the speedo pinion of an LT230. Probably something that can be bodged-up to make work.
Could well be, my comment was based solely upon visual observation of the two.
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Old 02-21-2016, 07:44 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Ok so got the new vss with the 120ohm inline and still no dice. No speedo and choppy idle . I just put the ohm meter on 2k and tested the original cable driven vss and it was 1 / 150 ohm and the disco vss tested at 1 / 1800. So I guess I have some basic math to do ? Should I try higher numeric resistors ?
You need to spin the VSS and it should give a pulse signal (open/120 Ohms/open...). The original VSS is just a reed switch and a resistor. The new VSS is just a reed switch. You are adding the resistor. The only resistance you should see is the resistor. Your VSS sounds dead.

Nothing you are going to do will get the speedometer working properly. That is a more complicated problem.

The VSS missing won't give a choppy idle. If that is your concern, you have another problem. The VSS causes the ECU to switch between a fast and slow idle control routine. With the VSS missing, you sometimes get stuck in the slow mode and the engine will stall when you stop.
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Old 02-21-2016, 08:08 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Hey thanks guys for keeping an eye on this thread. I had done what bentcrank mentioned on fri and got through smog with flying colors since the rig only needs to pass idle check. . So didnt find any Discos at the pull a part to try the ecu but going to make a bracket to use the original cable drivin vss today. .. .So you guys are saying the vss ONLY controls the idle mode? Because before I swapped this Tcase the truck ran flawless and the speedo worked fine. . . Actually if thats the case , I can deal with no speedo for a while. I have stabilized the idle to atleast acceptable. . Im leaving next weekend to Moab then across country in it so I was just wanting to make surei ts not running to far out of range since My gas budget is already pretty slim. I will report in a little later after I see id the vss drive in the tcase is close enough in size to spin the cable on the original transducer.
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