Reasonably Priced Crawler Box for LT230 - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
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Old 09-15-2004, 08:45 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Reasonably Priced Crawler Box for LT230

So who is interested in an adaptor to fit the Borg Warner 1339 (Jeep Quadratrack) T-case to the LT230 T-Case as a crawler box? Provided the adaptor could be made for a reasonable price this would be the cheapest way to get a strong bolt-on crawler box.

Bill Larman (who has fitted these crawler boxes to both series and LT95 t-cases) is looking to get adaptors manufactured in Australia (if there is enough interest).

I estimate (this is my guess only) that the adaptor would be $500US or less (but you need to source your own BW1339. The only downside is (I believe) the kit will have to also include an adaptor to use a series handbrake drum on the LT230 (otherwise the crawler won't fit).

For more details, and to post if you are interested, click here (start reading at the 6th post down).

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Mo...ic.php?t=26051

I have no personal interest in this venture (other than I want a reasonably priced crawler box for the LT230 to be available).
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Old 09-15-2004, 09:28 AM   #2 (permalink)
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$500 US or less, I'm on it...
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Old 09-15-2004, 10:12 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madcowdungbeetle
$500 US or less, I'm on it...
I'd think about it, but I would need one that would fit an early auto rangie LT230, and unless he is modifying the existing input gear it would be impossible (One off).

Frankly I'm not sure if I am going to want lower gears - 5.14X3.32Xbig slushy autoXtons of torque? In these conditions it probably would be triple overkill.
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Old 09-15-2004, 11:29 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I wanna see a picture before I comment further. Otherwise, I'm interested and may start looking for suitable donor transfer cases.
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Old 09-15-2004, 02:00 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I agree pics would be great. I'm acutally interested in it for a Series T-case. I just read that old thread a month ago and already started collecting parts including an old Fairey overdrive. I've already got the Borg Warner low range box and the overdrive should be in my hands next week.

Let me know if you guys are going to do this for sure.

Dan
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Old 09-15-2004, 02:10 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Very tempting, I would be very interested.
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Old 09-15-2004, 02:48 PM   #7 (permalink)
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IMO aquire a Borg Warner 1339 (Jeep Quadratrack) this will happen.

I have mine.

this looks like the most workable set up around since ashcroft stopped manufacturing thiers.

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Old 09-15-2004, 05:20 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoverDan
I agree pics would be great. I'm acutally interested in it for a Series T-case. I just read that old thread a month ago and already started collecting parts including an old Fairey overdrive. I've already got the Borg Warner low range box and the overdrive should be in my hands next week.

Let me know if you guys are going to do this for sure.

Dan
I'm curious about this as well . I have a Fairey... And a Series transfer case, but I hadn't intended to use it in this application.
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Old 09-16-2004, 12:29 AM   #9 (permalink)
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There are some pics of it fitted to an LT95 here:

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Mo...r=asc&start=30

But seriously, I will see if someone can take some decent pics and post them.


Also, note that this adaptor is for LT230's - that don't have a lot of dead overdrives available to do the adaption (unlike the series and LT95 T-cases). So if you COULD get hold of a dead LT230 OD and had a friend with machining equipment you could do the conversion yourself for less. This system will be a completely bolt on conversion, just supply a BW T-case and bolt everything up.
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Old 09-16-2004, 01:10 AM   #10 (permalink)
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The idea of this is to take the Reduction unit from the jeep qtrac transfer case and make and adaptor for it to fit the PTO output of the LT230.

The LT230s input gear will need to be replaced with a modified input gear, the upper chain sproket is needed from the original qtrac transfer case and the Hand brake assembly needs to be replaced with a smaller series drum and an adaptor need to be made to fit.

I am eagerly awaiting for someone to get this under way and either have a kit with all required parts (minus the reduction unit).
As you can see from IsuzuRovers post there is alot of interest in Australia aswell just not as much pushing power or keen as mustard machine freaks such as you lads on pirate

Glad to here some of you guys are onto it and I hope you are succesful

Keep us posted on progress.... and just let me knwo when you want the $$$$

Anthony
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Old 09-21-2004, 09:15 AM   #11 (permalink)
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So it look slike the boys in OZ are not finding anyone to do the work. Anyone here friendly with BCB?? It looks like the type of thing that is up there alley.
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Old 09-21-2004, 10:03 AM   #12 (permalink)
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if someone can send me the CAD files or schematics (dimensioned & tolerenced preferably) so I can take a look at them, I might be able to pull something together.

does this include the specs for the input gear ?

Last edited by madcowdungbeetle; 09-21-2004 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 09-21-2004, 10:05 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimace
The LT230s input gear will need to be replaced with a modified input gear, the upper chain sproket is needed from the original qtrac transfer case and the Hand brake assembly needs to be replaced with a smaller series drum and an adaptor need to be made to fit.
or why not include a disc conversion for the Tcase instead
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Old 09-21-2004, 10:10 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madcowdungbeetle
if someone can send me the CAD files or schematics (dimensioned & tolerenced preferably) so I can take a look at them, I might be able to pull something together.

does this include the specs for the input gear ?
AFAIK there aren't any CAD files. Bill, the guy who has built 2 of these adaptors before, is very much an old-tech (pen and paper) kind of guy. However, maybe he can do some pen and paper drawings and someone can convert them to CAD.
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Old 09-21-2004, 10:11 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madcowdungbeetle
or why not include a disc conversion for the Tcase instead
No reason you couldn't. Personally I prefer the drum because it is less likely to be damaged when you hit it on a rock.
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Old 09-21-2004, 10:14 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by red90rover
So it look slike the boys in OZ are not finding anyone to do the work. Anyone here friendly with BCB?? It looks like the type of thing that is up there alley.
It is up their alley. They've done two for me, and about a half-dozen for others.

It's not exactly a huge profit maker, so they have shyed away from doing more.

EDIT: Cooper has also done a disc conversion to an LT-230. Didn't work out very well so he went back to a drum.
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Old 09-21-2004, 10:31 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Sorry Micheal, are you saying they have done this exact underdrive before??

If so, what type of cost.
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Old 09-21-2004, 11:27 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by red90rover
Sorry Micheal, are you saying they have done this exact underdrive before??

If so, what type of cost.
You know what, I'm a dumb shit. I thought this was the thread about the pat-time LT-230.

Sorry.

Cooper made ONE crawler box about 6 years ago. None since. It's in the 'plan' to make another version, but who knows when it'll happen.
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Old 09-21-2004, 12:19 PM   #19 (permalink)
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OK, but does he know about how easy it would be to adapt a BW1339 low range set?? Someone might want to try and get the gears going. I really think this could be done for $1000 USD plus the donor case. If it can be done that cheaply, there would be a fairly large market.

The overdrives cost, what?, $2000 USD. All this needs is the input gear arrangement from that (modified to suit) and an adapter plate.
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Old 09-21-2004, 12:34 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISUZUROVER
AFAIK there aren't any CAD files. Bill, the guy who has built 2 of these adaptors before, is very much an old-tech (pen and paper) kind of guy. However, maybe he can do some pen and paper drawings and someone can convert them to CAD.
That shouldn't be a problem. Right now I am taking an autoCAD class and that is pretty much all we are doing: converting hand written diagrams onto the computer.

If you can get the specs to madcowdungbeetle, him and I could probably have that mofo on the puter' in no time.

Oh, when you send it, send two copies and two bottles of scotch .
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Old 09-21-2004, 12:39 PM   #21 (permalink)
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or why not include a disc conversion for the Tcase instead
I made one for a series using a Wilwood caliper and a hydraulic hand pump... I scrapped it when I went to the LT230. It was pretty darn strong.
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Old 09-22-2004, 06:37 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I have idle machine time...

My machinist friend is coming over to the shop today, we were gonna discuss diesel conversions and a bulletproof axle arrangement (those of you who know of what I'm talking, keep your fawkin' mouth's shut, Shopgrrl is almost ready to let me spend the dollars for the bare case), but I strongly suspect this may be of interest as well.

Time to go pull the T-case out of the crashed Cherokee in the lot of the body shop downstairs...

Peace,
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Old 09-22-2004, 07:12 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I have idle machine time...

My machinist friend is coming over to the shop today, we were gonna discuss diesel conversions and a bulletproof axle arrangement (those of you who know of what I'm talking, keep your fawkin' mouth's shut, Shopgrrl is almost ready to let me spend the dollars for the bare case), but I strongly suspect this may be of interest as well.

Time to go pull the T-case out of the crashed Cherokee in the lot of the body shop downstairs...

Peace,
PT
That would be really cool if you can take it on Paul. If Bill (the guy who did these conversions before) can provide any assitance just PM him on outerlimits and I'm sure he will be happy to help.

Of course at the rate you made those tools for pendy this could take years
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Old 09-22-2004, 07:18 AM   #24 (permalink)
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This is a description of how Bill made his previous two crawler boxes (series and LT95).

Quote:
Originally Posted by daddylonglegs
Hi gents, Bill here. i will try to give you a brief rundown on what is involved in making up a crawler gearbox that fits to the pto aperture on Landrover series tranfercases and 4 speed LT95 tranfercases also.
The parts you will need are, an old Fairey overdrive to suit your particular transfer. This must have an input shaft and adaptor gear that is in good condition in the male and female spline area. You will also need to source the bolt on two speed high low range planetary gearbox from a Borg Warner Quadratrac transfercase as used on automatic Jeep wagoneers, Cherokees, CJ7's etc from circa 1980's If you plan on stealing one, these vehicles can be identified by having a rear diff that is offset to the right whereas non Quadratrac models have a centred rear diff. The only partts of the old overdrive you will use are, part of the gear case from the flange forward.
The adaptor gear, the input shaft and the cylindrical output gear. and some needle thrust and roller bearings.
the fairey input shaft is cut and resplined to engage with the female spline of the Quadratrac input gear. The Fairey cylindrical output gear is modified by grinding the teeth off the small helical gear at one end, and welding on the course splined dog from the old Quadratrac out put gear.
An aluminium adapter and blanking plate will need to be machined up to bolt the planetary unit to the Landy pto aperture. I have only performed this conversion twice. on a series 2a tranfercase and an Lt95 and I worked out the dimensions as I went along, so unfortunately i didn't make drawings. They have proven to be very strong with hard use over the years. I had to replace the roller bearing with a bronze bush on the adaptor gear due to brinelling as the planetary unit spends most of its life in high range. This brinelling also occurs on standard Fairey overdrives if overdrive is not engaged regularly. This conversion will not suit lt95's with the large handbrake assembly. you must adapt the smaller handbrake from a series i,2 or 3 or the early Rangerover 4spd. It could possibly also be adapted to the later Lt230 transfer case but as there are no dead overdrives around for these it would be more complicated and expensive.
The low range ratio in the planetary unit is 2.57:1 when this is combined with the LT95 gearbox and 3.54 diffs it yeilds an overall ratio in low low 1st gear of around 127:1 . Standard low 1st is around 48:1.
My own series 2a LandRover fitted with a D series Ford truck gearbox, suffix b tranfercase, crawlerbox, 3.54:1 diffs and 1:56:1 hub reduction in the portals yields an overall ratio in deep reduction 1st gear of 278:1.
Most people would think this ratio is unusable, but with lockers, good tyres, lots of ground clearance and gobs of axle articulation I have used this ratio to good effect on many occaisions.
Because the company that I was involved with "Off Road Rover" is no more. and I no longer possess the machining facilities that I once had, my assistance with this conversion unfortunately is limited to advice.
I have seen a similar pto mounted crawler box on a landcruiser transfercase in the showroom of Marks 4WD adaptors. It apears to be a coventional Mainshaft Layshaft (non planetary}design. They do not appear to like Rovers too much over there, so I am not sure how easy it would be to persuade them to adapt the crawler for rovers.
Incidently, I had heard that Ashcrofts crawler unit was withdrawn from the market because they were having too many warranty claims, not because of low sales volume. Ashcroft is not a volume oufit and one or two units per month would probably have been enough for them.
Regards Bill.
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Old 09-22-2004, 07:28 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Of course at the rate you made those tools for pendy this could take years
They're not done yet! (I do have the stock to make them with though, man steel has gotten expensive)

We are in the midst of our bigge$t month yet, we were actually able to pay the mortgage and the shop rent.

Just when I think I have some time to work on research projects, a Rangie with a BAD water pump arrives, along with one with no brake lines nor air lines to the rear. Next week, I have yet another Rangie front axle to rebuild. This doesn't even begin to include the series one resto that hasn't been started.

Anybody want to come to Indiana for camp? Won't be nearly as exciting as Pendy, I'm married and she works at the shop

Shopboy has finally finished painting Shopgrrl's office, maybe I'll have him start stripping series parts trucks. Oh yeah, there is always putting an engine in Shopgrrl's rangie.
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