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Old 08-23-2012, 09:38 AM   #76 (permalink)
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Per google cache:

Quote:
Sand Lick-Big Bend Watershed Improvement

Improve water quality and reduce soil loss in riparian and rare areas by managing and maintaining the many open roads in the Sand Lick and Big Bend Watersheds.
Project Information

Expected Analysis Type
Environmental Assessment

Categorical Exclusion
Orders issued pursuant to 36 CFR Part 261 - Prohibitions to provide short-term resource protection or to protect public health and safety.
Repair and maintenance of roads, trails, and landline boundaries.

Special Authority
Not applicable / Other

Lead Management Unit
Cumberland Ranger District

Notice and Comment Regulation
215

Project Purpose
Watershed management; Road management

Project Activity
Road decommissioning; Road maintenance; Road improvements/construction; Watershed improvements
36 CFR Part 261 as I have read it pretty much shuts everything down. Done. Fin.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:53 AM   #77 (permalink)
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Coach, can you explain your post?

I'm not finding any updated info but I haven't utilized the cache option on google...
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:22 AM   #78 (permalink)
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Here's the link I have. I don't know if this will work.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a

If not, I did a screenshot grab and uploaded it to photobucket.



This is 36 part 261.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-200...l2-part261.pdf
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:35 AM   #79 (permalink)
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Jeff,

I was surprised to read that the FS would not provide the FOIA documents at no charge. Did you ask on behalf of your organization (are you a registered non-profit?) and state that the information is for public interest and not you personally? I have heard some offices try to scare folks saying they would have to pay, but when pressed, they usually back off. Ask them if they have charged anyone else for FOIA documents, and why they are denying you an exemption.

Another alternative to paying copying costs would be to request to come to their office and review the files in person. I expect that you won't need copies of every document, so you can probably.

When you communicate in the future, you might want to cc your congress critters if they are friendly, and ask them to inquire why you have to pay for public documents that are almost always provided to other groups at no charge. This way they willhave to justify their actions to more than just you. .

Here is a link to the Justic Dept FOIA FAQ section. According to this, an organization seeking information in the public interest would be exempt from fees: http://www.foia.gov/faq.html#fees
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:48 AM   #80 (permalink)
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Jeff,

I was surprised to read that the FS would not provide the FOIA documents at no charge. Did you ask on behalf of your organization (are you a registered non-profit?) and state that the information is for public interest and not you personally? I have heard some offices try to scare folks saying they would have to pay, but when pressed, they usually back off. Ask them if they have charged anyone else for FOIA documents, and why they are denying you an exemption.

Another alternative to paying copying costs would be to request to come to their office and review the files in person. I expect that you won't need copies of every document, so you can probably.

When you communicate in the future, you might want to cc your congress critters if they are friendly, and ask them to inquire why you have to pay for public documents that are almost always provided to other groups at no charge. This way they willhave to justify their actions to more than just you. .

Here is a link to the Justic Dept FOIA FAQ section. According to this, an organization seeking information in the public interest would be exempt from fees: http://www.foia.gov/faq.html#fees
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:55 AM   #81 (permalink)
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Coach, I am trying to understand the "last updated" tag on your linked page is June 2012.......maybe they posted it then withdrew it from the interweb????

I've requested the fees be waived, citing some of the things posted here and in my research as well as help from SFWDA.

Thanks for all the input! Any more info is appreciated...
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:17 AM   #82 (permalink)
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That's my best guess Jeff. They didn't have that posted there when I checked in early June, didn't see it in July and of course there is nothing there at all now. Google crawled the page and took a snapshot.

Obviously the "Road decommissioning" is something new. Well, the whole thing is. Previously it simply said "Improve water quality and reduce soil loss in riparian and rare areas by managing and maintaining the many open roads in the Sand Lick and Big Bend Watersheds."

The part you see towards the bottom "Notice and Comment Regulation 215" is "NOTICE, COMMENT, AND APPEAL PROCEDURES FOR NATIONAL FOREST SYSTEM PROJECTS AND ACTIVITIES". I'm know you're already familiar with the process, but for others:

http://law.justia.com/cfr/title36/36-2.0.1.1.5.html

The good news is they've shown their hand pre-maturely and tried to retract it and now we know more of what to expect.

Edit: The one thing we don't know at this point is whether the responsible official will be Dave Manner or Frank Beum. If it's Manner then Beum will decide the appeals. If it's Beum, I have no idea who is up higher in the chain. I'd be more comfortable knowing who the appeals will be going to.
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Last edited by coachholland; 08-23-2012 at 11:23 AM.
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:30 PM   #83 (permalink)
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scoping notice is out

http://www.fs.fed.us/nepa/nepa_proje...?project=18901
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:43 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Only partially way through it at the moment, but find it amusing that they're showing a picture of the entrance to Rattlesnake for Carb Hill. Rattlesnake was closed down by a mudslide two years ago...
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:39 PM   #85 (permalink)
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This is much much worse than I thought.

Contradictions that stand out to me in the first quick read.

First, they state that the streams are bedrock which are not a suitable habitat for fish and wildlife. They blame the bare bedrock on OVH access and prior straightening of the stream. Then they blame OHV for sediment run off. I'm not a geologist, but I would assume that sediment run off would cause build up of crud in the stream? If OHV is the cause of sediment deposits, why is the stream bedrock?

Secondly, Sand Lick is not a true stream. It is a ephemeral stream that only has water after intense rainfalls.

We have a friend in the senate in Rand Paul who has introduced legislation to prevent the classification of these as waterways.

http://www.jbs.org/legislation/defen...ters-overreach

However, it has been stuck in committee since March. So much for easy common sense legislation.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr4304

Additionally, according to the government's own data (Fish & Wildlife Services), the areas discussed do not have rare, threatened or endangered species that can be effected by OHV travel. 21197 is the one specific for this targeted area, but the others are adjacent.

http://www.fws.gov/cookeville/docs/e.../ky/kycty.html
http://www.fws.gov/cookeville/docs/e.../cnty_txt.html

http://www.fws.gov/cookeville/docs/e.../ky/21197.html
http://www.fws.gov/cookeville/docs/e.../ky/21237.html
http://www.fws.gov/cookeville/docs/e.../ky/21129.html
http://www.fws.gov/cookeville/docs/e.../ky/21165.html

Huge opening I see here though and this puts and major crimp in the FS plans. They plan to acquire Sand Lick Rd from the county. Powell County needs our dollars. Time to get in touch with the county judge executive.
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Last edited by coachholland; 08-23-2012 at 02:39 PM.
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:53 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Absolutely Coach!

Additionally, they plan to spend tax payer dollars to improve the roads to get heavy equipment in to cap the wells...... then spend tax payer dollars to obliterate the exact roads they just built and lock the public out

More to come.....
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Old 08-28-2012, 09:39 AM   #87 (permalink)
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just got this...


The Forest Service invites your input on a proposed project that would improve the environment by cleaning water near Sand Lick Fork in Powell County, Kentucky, on National Forest System land. Steps would be taken to stop chlorides and soil from contaminating streams and groundwater, and to restore a section of Sand Lick Fork. In summary, the project would involve the following actions:

1) Plugging open oil wells with concrete

2) Removing oil lines and infrastructure

3) Improving roads for temporary administrative use

4) Closing and decommissioning roads

5) Restoring streams and wetlands

A report describes in detail the proposed Sand Lick Fork Watershed Restoration Project may be found here: http://www.fs.fed.us/nepa/fs-usda-po...?project=18901 . The Forest Service invites your help in the planning process by sharing any information or thoughts you may have about this proposal. Your comments would be used to identify issues and possible alternatives to the proposal. Please provide initial comments within 30 days of this project’s Notice of Intent to Prepare an Environmental Impact Statements publication in the Federal Register.

Individuals or organizations wishing to comment should provide the following information as part of their comments:
1) Name and address.
2) Title of the proposed action.
3) Comments that are specific to the proposal
4) Signature


You may submit written comments by one of several ways:
1) By mail or hand delivered to: USDA - Forest Service
2375 KY Highway 801 South
Morehead, KY 40351
2) By facsimile to (606) 784-6435
3) By computer, electronically to (please include the project title in the subject line): [email protected]

For additional information, please contact Tom Biebighauser at 606-784-6428 extension 102 or via e-mail at tombiebighau[email protected]. I look forward to hearing from you.

Jeffrey F. Lewis
District Silviculturist and Planning Forester
2375 KY 801 South
Morehead, KY 40351
Phone: 606-784-6428 ext. 101
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:19 AM   #88 (permalink)
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Update:

I am still working to refine the talking points people can use when forming their comments to the USFS. I hope to publish them today or tomorrow.

Some good news! Since 2009 and before, the Southern Four Wheel Drive Association ( SFWDA.org ) has involved themselves in this issue at Sandlick by attending meetings personally (driving up from TN and other southern states) and offering advice and fielding questions and so on.

TODAY I RECEIVED A CHECK FROM SFWDA FOR THE TOTAL AMOUNT COVERING MY FOIA REQUEST FEES!

This means everyone should please consider joining or renewing SFWDA and flying their logos on your rigs, support them as a club, and otherwise give them props for stepping up!

More to follow...

Thanks,

Jeff
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:25 PM   #89 (permalink)
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Hell yeah! I'm not going to be able to make Dixie Run this year, but I will be sending them a little something after hearing this.
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Old 09-05-2012, 05:00 AM   #90 (permalink)
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Awesome!
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Old 09-27-2012, 06:39 AM   #91 (permalink)
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Bump.... USDA Forest Service - Cumberland Ranger District NEPA Projects - Sand Lick Fork Watershed Restoration

Comment period closes 10-11-12 ... any and all comments to the FS on this issue are welcome
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:49 PM   #92 (permalink)
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Jeff, have you gotten anything as far as a drafted letter or something like that? I will post on my Facebook and try to get as many comments as possible.

Thanks again for all your work buddy!
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:14 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Call to action!

Tuesday December 11th at 7PM
Powell County Courthouse
525 Washington Street
Stanton, KY 40380


The Powell County, KY Fiscal Fiscal Court will have the issues of Sand Lick on its agenda. The issue at hand is the plans of the United States Forest Service for next spring, which is to deny recreational access to multiple uses and inexplicably flood the Sand Lick area.

Project Webpage

http://www.fs.fed.us/nepa/nepa_project_ ... ject=18901

To impact the situation, you must show up in person! Carpool!

Please the spread the word online and at home, bring friends, and family to show your support for keeping public lands open to the public in the Sand Lick area and all public lands. This is an important step in the fight and a necessary one so please make the trip to Powell County and help the cause!

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Old 12-05-2012, 09:48 AM   #94 (permalink)
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USDA Forest Service - Cumberland Ranger District NEPA Projects - Sand Lick Fork Watershed Restoration

Corrected link. What's this on the flooding of the area though? This is new.

I'll be there!
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Last edited by coachholland; 12-05-2012 at 09:49 AM.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:42 AM   #95 (permalink)
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Flooding:

From page 9 of the scoping document:

http://a123.g.akamai.net/7/123/11558...LT2_277733.pdf

A mixture of different types of wetlands would be established by using heavy equipment, such as wildlife habitat.
an excavator. This mixture would provide for a variety of hydrologic conditions, which would increase the types of habitat for plants and animals.

Additionally, they told the judge executive their goal is for it to hold water year round... if anyone on any side of this issue looks to the damage the USFS did to close the Narrow's Rd., one can see where my concerns are derived with the changes coming in March unless we can change the course.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:49 AM   #96 (permalink)
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... another snippet from the notice:

"Wetlands would be established in the restored floodplain to provide fish and wildlife habitat, filter surface run-off, reduce flooding, recharge groundwater, and increase viewing opportunities for birds, mammals, amphibians, and reptiles."


they are not advertising this fact though
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:49 PM   #97 (permalink)
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Update:


So the main road that goes through Sand Lick and also up to Big Bend Ridge is county road 1057 Sand Lick Road (The Narrows Road AKA). The USFS illegally closed and damaged this road in 2006 without the county consent. The county judge executive sent the county road crew in last Tuesday to reopen the road, which they did. On Friday, the USFS illegally retrenched the road and also posted a ranger to guard the county road. This morning, the ranger threatened to arrest the county road workers who showed up to reopen their road along with the judge if he showed his presence.


The judge has proof the road is county road 1057 Sand Lick Road and also that the documentation the USFS used to close and damage it was filled with errors, including stating the road was not a county road.

On Wednesday April 3rd at 9AM, the judge is leading his county road crew to reopen it once and for all.

WE NEED ALL THE PEOPLE WE CAN TO BE THERE TO SUPPORT THE COUNTY AND RECLAIM OUR ROADS BY EXERCISING THEIR RIGHTS AS AMERICANS.

Sand Lick Road is a few miles down Big Bend Road just outside Zachariah, KY (41301) which is in between Slade KY and Beattyville, KY.


Google Map Maker

Please spread the word and help show the public is not going to allow our access to be taken illegally. Be there to support our county and access to our forests in general. There are hundreds of miles of county roads in the national forest, this is the first of many we are taking back from illegal closures.

Last edited by wayneraintree; 04-01-2013 at 02:52 PM.
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Old 04-01-2013, 03:32 PM   #98 (permalink)
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Good to see. My parents and several locals just went through a very, very similar situation in Pitkin Colorado. You all can do it!
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Old 04-01-2013, 03:35 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Hey all,

This is legit! My girlfriend and I were up there saturday... She was on a KDX200 and I was in a pathfinder K-van. We were stopped by a ranger and exchanged words (read: He harrassed us)... My GF was issued a citation. The road was known to be open as late as thurday night when some vandals... I mean good citizens ran the trail and dismantled some of the barriers further in with a blow torch. We ran up and down it on the bike but the K-van on 33s was not up for it. Afterward the co judge exec showed up and also had an exchange with the ranger. They are now apparently guarding the road 24-7. I would urge everyone to show up and bring as many friends and family as possible... Bring your wives and kids, 4 wheelers and dirt bikes... Any vehicles you can find. Its time to show the feds we are not going to take this sort of infrigment of our rights lying down. Be aware that the feds are out for blood and may be in a citation issuing/arresting mood but this is definitely worth it and the law is on our side!
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:23 PM   #100 (permalink)
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That is great news Jeff! I'll be there!
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