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Old 04-03-2013, 11:35 AM   #151 (permalink)
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that's what I am saying, we need to have all the facts and our ducks in a row. Something caused Anderson to back off. We need to find out why so we don't show up and then the rangers have some "pocket full of aces" that blows up in our faces.

I read it wrong. The way it seem on the book of faces was that everyone was going down there and just fuckin takin that shit! Yea! Eff the police kind of thing.

An organized group with law enforcement and media backing with facts that prove the forest service wrong would be perfect. We just need to all be on the same page. We definitely need to find out why Anderson stopped. That is the biggest thing that has me staying at bay right now.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:56 PM   #152 (permalink)
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that's what I am saying, we need to have all the facts and our ducks in a row. Something caused Anderson to back off. We need to find out why so we don't show up and then the rangers have some "pocket full of aces" that blows up in our faces.

I read it wrong. The way it seem on the book of faces was that everyone was going down there and just fuckin takin that shit! Yea! Eff the police kind of thing.

An organized group with law enforcement and media backing with facts that prove the forest service wrong would be perfect. We just need to all be on the same page. We definitely need to find out why Anderson stopped. That is the biggest thing that has me staying at bay right now.
Of course there is some element of anger as there always needs to be in this sort of situation but in this case is definitely justified anger and the facts are on our side. I would urge everyone who is even considering attending to email [email protected]. I will use this email to co-ordinated the event, send out updates and arm everyone with the facts of the situation. As someone mentioned earlier it is better if we come to the scene better prepared than the feds.

Interestingly one of the roadblocks that was raised to judge Anderson appears to be crumbling: there was concern that the nature conservancy involvement (used their funds to buy some of the land I think) may have trumped the co road. Jeff spoke with nature conservancy today and they informed him that county roads maintained, or otherwise are not in any way affected by their involvement. There are still more issues and even if those are resolved that doesn't mean the feds will not throw up more stuff but that's one less thing for us to worry about.
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:13 PM   #153 (permalink)
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I've shot an email to the address listed.
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:50 AM   #154 (permalink)
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This is what Jeff posted over on KK:

Quote:
Originally Posted by wayneraintree
The judge is working through the issues in order to legitimately reopen the road using the power of his position through diligence.

When he has these things worked out and responsibly directs his county crew, I will be there to support him and the county crew. That could happen before or after the date posted on the FB page. The FB page is not mine or Judge Anderson's so the information there is not reflecting exactly the positions we are taking.

We scheduled the reopening based on having the law completely on our side and all questions answered. Since they saw that we are serious and very close to getting all the kinks in the chain worked out.... a few things need to be addressed. The inter-county agreement has to be voted on by both Wolfe and Powell County fiscal courts (instead of just signed by both judges), the nature conservancy land trumping the county road possibly (I resolved this today, it does not, the county road stands no matter the purchaser of the land) and the interpretation of the statutes regarding county roads needs clarified as it relates to the unique nature of Sand Lick Road (as in it is a county road but the mileage listed on the county road index has been eroded mysteriously over the years)... but we are making progress even today and the judge and I are more determined than ever since we are right and it is the right thing to do.

As exemplified by the fact that we opened it once already, as soon as the questions are answered, we will move forward with haste... every push and shove between the county and USFS is getting us closer to a result. As recently as two weeks ago, the narrows was all but forgotten, now we have a path, albeit a bumpy one....
Quote:
Originally Posted by wayneraintree
... and yes, there is almost six miles of county road affected by the proposed Sand Lick Wetland project...... and the judge is not giving away an inch.

When the FS comes out with their scoping notice, it will be very interesting because there are so many high level politicians throwing kinks in their chain based on the county road issue... we have certainly succeeded in delaying their project. It will take a high level of organization to keep them off balance, oh yea, it will also take unity on our part. Unity is achieved by following the power of the county, that is our answer, support the county.
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:57 AM   #155 (permalink)
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More from yesterday

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Originally Posted by wayneraintree
A special agent forest ranger with an unmarked no official plated Tahoe stood watch on the road today. Back seat had two automatic weapons and a bean bag crowd control rifle... I would say we've struck a nerve and yes, their determination shows and that's not all it shows.
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Old 04-04-2013, 07:44 AM   #156 (permalink)
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Thats sad that they are to the point of posting unmarked rangers with weapons to prevent a county road from being open.
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Old 04-04-2013, 01:52 PM   #157 (permalink)
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Powell County has begun to post information on their website:




Powell County


Click on the Sand Lick Road link.
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:58 AM   #158 (permalink)
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Few of us are going out there this weekend camping and wheeling. I'll let you guys know what we find/see. I'll have my camera too
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:31 PM   #159 (permalink)
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Few of us are going out there this weekend camping and wheeling. I'll let you guys know what we find/see. I'll have my camera too
Anything new?
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:26 AM   #160 (permalink)
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Anything new?
Not that I seen. We went around the Big Bend area and there was really nothing different. Didn't see anyone staked out at the Narrows, but they did dig it out pretty good (failure for no pictures of this) I would have snapped one of the forest ranger, but he wasn't there (or at least not visible) when we came through
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Old 04-16-2013, 07:37 AM   #161 (permalink)
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Here's an update!
WASHINGTON - Congressman Andy Barr released the following statement after meeting with the Honorable Thomas Tidwell, Chief of the United States Forest Service, and Mr. Doug Crandall, the Director of Legislative Affairs for the United States Forest Service. Congressman Barr requested this meeting in order to discuss the Forest Service’s proposed Cave Run Non-motorized Trails Initiative and the Sand Lick Fork Watershed Restoration Project.

“Today, I was pleased to meet with Chief Tidwell to register my serious concerns with two of the Forest Service’s projects underway in my district. In this meeting, I conveyed concerns brought to my attention by constituents in Bath County and Menifee County regarding the Forest Service’s proposed Cave Run Non-motorized Trails Initiative, specifically that each of the four Forest Service proposals either prohibit or limit the future use of trails currently enjoyed by and available to horseback riders. As we discussed the situation, I emphasized to Chief Tidwell that such restrictions to riders would largely threaten and deter equine-related tourism in the area, revenue from which is vital to the economic stability of these rural counties. I am encouraged that Chief Tidwell agrees that we need to find a mutually beneficial solution that would maintain the current levels of access for so many riders who enjoy these trails.

“Chief Tidwell and I also discussed the Sand Lick Fork Watershed Restoration Project. In my letter requesting this meeting, I emphasized to Chief Tidwell that several of the project’s proposed closures would negatively impact our ability to attract tourism to the Sixth District. I specifically explained to Chief Tidwell that action items in the project would be barriers to local tourism and recreation, particularly those that decommission or limit use of off-highway vehicle roads. We discussed the extraordinary efforts made by county leadership to promote local tourism, which in turn brings jobs to their communities and business to local restaurants and hotels. I was glad when Chief Tidwell acknowledged the importance of taking a closer look at these proposed closures that would negatively impact these local economies at a time when they can least afford it.

“I appreciate Chief Tidwell’s willingness to work with us on these important issues and I am encouraged that the Chief is going to take a closer look at both of these situations. I look forward to continuing to work with the Forest Service to find mutually beneficial solutions that will safeguard local tourism and recreation, which is vital to the economic stability of the Sixth District.”

On Wednesday, Congressman Barr will be continuing this conversation with Mr. Frank Beum, the Forest Supervisor of the Daniel Boone National Forest, and Ms. Marie Walker, the Public Affairs Officer for the Daniel Boone National Forest.
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:12 AM   #162 (permalink)
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Sadly, it seems that you have to make a statement like yall did to get somewhere with these people. But its about time we start turning things around. Sounds like that is some progress, keep it up guys
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:49 AM   #163 (permalink)
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anything new to report?
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Old 05-03-2013, 05:02 PM   #164 (permalink)
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What's the latest? Was planning on riding that area sunday
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:03 AM   #165 (permalink)
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Same areas are open. The narrows is still closed, but the USFS is throwing a fit now. They are now trying to take subsidies back from the state and a few other things. The same trails that everyone is used to riding right now are still all open
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Old 05-05-2013, 04:40 PM   #166 (permalink)
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I'm from Cincinnati, and was just in the Red River Gorge area this weekend. I came upon this thread after doing some research on off-road trails in the RRG area.

I also found this description of the reopening of the Pitkin, CO road:

Pitkin Colorado Vs The United States Forest Service | Alpine Paradise

According to the story, the road closure was not legal, therefore the threats of arrest may have been hollow. IF the road closure was not legal, one may have grounds for a dandy Section 183 violation of rights lawsuit.

I will follow this thread with interest, and MORE POWER TO YOU.

Last edited by BB62; 05-05-2013 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:41 PM   #167 (permalink)
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The situation we have in the DBNF is exactly the same. Presently, the USFS is monitoring this thread along with others trying to stay ahead of the momentum we the people have garnered. That said, we are giving the diplomatic channels of the county and state the opportunity to work at their level to get the FS to stand down. I highly doubt they will, as evidenced by their tactics thus far... So, in the not so distant future, after the county and state have their chance.... We will retake every single road the USFS has illegally closed because you are exactly correct, the threat of arrest is hollow and they know that we know what they have done to the county roads.... Heck, district Ranger Dave Manner spent over 400k$ tax payer dollars destroying our road....I'm sure he's not going to apologize and make it right or he already would have. It's going to take uniting citizens, county, and state to make this right... And we will, in earnest.

All I can say to anyone who is on board with making this right, is to be at the ready. Our time will come.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:46 PM   #168 (permalink)
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Here's an example of what a 1983 suit looks like - on a different subject, and a different state, but FYI anyway:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6gt...MXM/edit?pli=1
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Old 05-06-2013, 06:13 AM   #169 (permalink)
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and this is what documentation is used to illegally close a county road under a "categorical exclusion" (i.e. do whatever we want without due diligence and as quickly and under the radar as possible)...

Notice page 2 states "the OHV trail is not an official Forest Service Road, a county road nor a state road"....

http://www.powellcountyky.us/pdf/USF...ocument%20.pdf


Actually, the road shown on the USFS map is exactly County Road Sand Lick Road #1057 which is on the county road inventory even to this day! This was verified by the county surveyor.....and it has been listed as a county road since the 20's and it is shown on many State Highway Department maps and listed under maintenance contracts from the state to the county.

No one mentions the Wolfe County road called Sterling Road that was also obliterated in this same USFS action. Sterling Road is also a county road and always has been.... it is obvious the USFS has been caught with their hands in the cookie jar..... now the county and state and citizens must make them accountable.
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Old 05-06-2013, 06:33 AM   #170 (permalink)
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Jeff, have you heard anything from Judge Andersen? Send me an email or PM me if you would like
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Old 05-06-2013, 07:49 AM   #171 (permalink)
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...Actually, the road shown on the USFS map is exactly County Road Sand Lick Road #1057 which is on the county road inventory even to this day! This was verified by the county surveyor.....and it has been listed as a county road since the 20's and it is shown on many State Highway Department maps and listed under maintenance contracts from the state to the county...
One wonders why, if this is so cut and dried, the county hasn't acted more forcefully to reverse this unjust taking?

Does KY have a recall process?
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Old 05-06-2013, 07:57 AM   #172 (permalink)
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Well the county road crew reopened the road a few weeks ago...... but the FS retrenched the entrance then put armed guards there great use of resources huh? feds guarding a county road from the citizens.....
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:14 AM   #173 (permalink)
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Wow. Armed guards.

The crispy critters and a space cadet have taken over.

We have to get down to earth people back in those positions.


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Old 05-16-2013, 11:14 AM   #174 (permalink)
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Congressman Andy Barr needs to hear your support ASAP.

Voters and citizens who support the county's rights to their roads need to email, call, write, or visit Congressman Barr immediately. Tell him you support the county's rights to their roads, including Sand Lick Road, along with responsible use of the road. Tell him you support the county's plan to promote the roads for tourism to boost the local economy.

Spreading the word to other supporters of this basic right of the county is imperative as well. The USFS and private groups have severely damaged many roads without anyone speaking out in defense of the county roads, until now. Get the word out to your friends, families, clubs, and others to contact Any Barr and let him hear your voice on the issue.

He has received letters from groups like the Sheltowee Trace Association and others who apparently support the USFS's actions on the county's roads, which use track hoe's to dig 70 ft. wide and 20 feet deep trenches to bedrock, scarring the earth, or using dynamite to explode natural rock formations like pink rock as done at Livingstone. There are many miles of county roads gated and destroyed and yet these groups continue to support these actions blindly without considering the consequences of the illegal closure for rescue efforts, forest fires, and other needs of the community like diverse recreational opportunities. Sand Lick Road was illegally closed in 2006 and damaged beyond belief. Go to White's Branch Arch with your friends and family and see for yourself what the USFS spent your money doing along with the private groups.

Make your voice heard. Email your support for the county road initiative and your opposition to the actions of the USFS and the private groups that result in the damage to Sand Lick Road (Narrows Road) and many others. Protect sustainable access and diverse recreation opportunities.

write:
US Representative Andy Barr
KY-6, Old Rosebud Road, Suite 100
Lexington, KY
40509


call: phone: 859-219-1366

or if you are in his district, email (This is the only email option I know of..)

https://barr.house.gov/contact/email-me
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Old 05-16-2013, 02:08 PM   #175 (permalink)
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You can also email his staff directly if you are out of district: [email protected]
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