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Old 06-22-2014, 07:40 PM   #1 (permalink)
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MOST CURRENT PROGRESS PIC




I started then quit building a full tube chassis vehicle about 5-6 years ago on mog axles.

Getting started on that project again but it has different direction now. I just don't have the time to compete running multiple business, nor need the competitive outlet as I get that elsewhere. So I am sacrificing weight for comfort.

A Dodge Durango may seem like an odd choice. I selected a 4 door rig for easy access for the kids in the rear. But it also had to have a short(as I could get) wheelbase and an engine that could be modified to achieve my power requirements. I was also already familiar with the vehicle from previous ownership and cost was reasonable. With the Supercharger and a few add ons I should have a reliable 600hp and 600lb-ft range.

Other Features:
Full Exocage
4 wheel Steering
Central Tire Inflation System
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Old 06-22-2014, 07:49 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Start with the a refresher on the axle build.

First I imported unimog axles from Germany. These happened to be factory reconditioned units that I immediately tore down. I cut down the tubes and rewelded them in the new locations to get the correct offset. I had to then slap the flange on the lathe and turn in down prep for welding to the new locations.



Here they are welded back up with the gear box removed from the end of the axles



Next came the brakes. Stock brakes are massive 70lb drum brakes and also the bolt pattern for the axles is an oddball pattern only used in military applications. So I torched all that off along with the stock flange off the axle hub. Had new wheel mounting flanges CNC laser cut. Turned a new register on the hub and pressed them together. A friend Tig welded them together.



Then came drawing up and CNC laser cutting some brackets for the brake calipers. These brackets also reinforce the entire hub portal box. This is a weak area in the axle that needs this bracing to handle the 47” tires I had planned.

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Old 06-22-2014, 07:55 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Here it is after mounting the standard chevy disc and the bitchen corvette 4 piston calipers I bought from the junkyards. There was a little grinding needed to fit them inside the wheels I have.



Then came adding link mounts to the axle. Notice how the outer link mount spans the tube to flange weld. Reinforcing this point and allowing force to transfer directly from the tires to the frame bypassing this failure point. That tube weld joint is a weak point compared to traditional axles due to the additional leverages placed by offsetting the wheel. Problem fixed here.



Upper and lower mounts done along with reinforcing and mounts for steering cylinders. The are custom double ended 2" bore by 10" stroke rams needed for the 45degrees of steering these axles have. They were manufactured with extra sealing and a few other features for rough offroad environment... unfortunately they are not mfg anymore.


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Old 06-22-2014, 08:12 PM   #4 (permalink)
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And the front axle. Remember 4 Wheel Steering!
The front axle runs off a danfoss orbital valve while the rear is controlled with a joystick and simple manifold.



Final bracing on the box to make extra sure it doesn’t explode. I realize you can’t really tell whats going on but I basically used the stock cast gearbox as shell and built a steel exoskeleton around it reinforcing the front and back of the gear bearing areas. All the bolt holes are thru drilled so that the entire box and bracing system is clamped together.



Of course I needed some bad ass steering arms so these were CNC burned and formed before welding up. Double sheer on heim joint and they CLAMP the portal box to its mount making the stricter stonger. The pattern encircles the entire backing plate/portal box. It took me a few tries to get that bolt pattern and clearances perfect so that this would work.



Rear axle steering at full lock.



Front Axle displaying the ackerman based on the original vehicle wheelbase with the inside tire turning on a much tighter radius.

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Old 06-22-2014, 08:17 PM   #5 (permalink)
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New axle shafts made of 300M by CTM racing.



I also took all the internal gears and joints and had everything Cryo Treated by the company that pioneered cryo treatment of metals. And why the hell not… build my own freaking Central Tire Inflation System? Designed and had my own custom hub bolt that integrates with a Dueblin rotating union to feed air to and from the tires while driving. machined from 4340 barstock.




And here is the final mockup with the 47's. Some pretty amazing clearance. I thing there is a good 8" on top of that 5 gallon bucket before reaching the axles.

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Old 06-22-2014, 08:29 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Here are some basic mockup pictures after cutting out a lot of the Durango. Just doing some planning right now.

There is going to be a TON of work to make this fit together.






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Old 06-22-2014, 08:48 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Very nice!
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Old 06-22-2014, 10:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Awesome!

What size wheels are those?
Are you steering arms hitting the tire?

Glad you didn't give up on the axles!
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Old 06-22-2014, 10:39 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Awesome!

What size wheels are those?
Are you steering arms hitting the tire?

Glad you didn't give up on the axles!
Don't remember wheel size it's been so long. There are staun beadlocks inside.

The steering arms don't hit the tires but will with the least bit of bulge. They will be clearanced in the two ends to eliminate that. They won't work the way they are now. Very pleased with how stout that setup is and how it actually reinforces the structure however. Little bit of work and they will be perfect.
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Old 06-27-2014, 09:46 AM   #10 (permalink)
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are those toyota ifs calipers? let us know how they work! power assist im sure?
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:02 PM   #11 (permalink)
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are those toyota ifs calipers? let us know how they work! power assist im sure?
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Here it is after mounting the standard chevy disc and the bitchen corvette 4 piston calipers I bought from the junkyards. There was a little grinding needed to fit them inside the wheels I have.

Corvette 4 Piston Calipers.

Plan on power assist as well.
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Old 06-27-2014, 05:54 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Good to see your back at it I've read your old threads before when I was researching my portals.TMR wont make those link brackets anymore I have a set similar im making myself tho.Always wanted to do a Dakota mog build for my son hes stuck on wanting a v8 and a truck so I told him be a good platform.As you already stated I knew lots of cutting would be involved esp the Durango hed prob truggy the rear so that would help his case.I may have to try and get my build moved over here its in hardcore right now and I just gave up on it.No one ever seems to be intrested the mogs are like redheaded step children to most I think.Im watching now man keep it up very intrested looks great so far.I like the hi steer arms you may need to make a few sets of those!
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Old 06-28-2014, 05:38 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I notice in those Ackerman pics you don't have the factory steering stops bolted on. Are you going to try for something more aggressive than the 30* and 40* factory steering angles? I wonder how much more is possible before you completely bind up the joints or just tear the kingpins to shreds with the ram?


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Old 06-28-2014, 06:24 PM   #14 (permalink)
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How much did you cut off the housings? With the new hubs did you measure WMS or even outside to outside of tire? I've been playing with measurements forever I need to cut my housings just trying to decide where I want to end up.Stock D60s are what 69.5 mogs are 72ish I cant remember id like to be a bit wider than stock D60 with quite a bit of backspacing on my wheels.
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Old 06-28-2014, 08:24 PM   #15 (permalink)
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How much did you cut off the housings? With the new hubs did you measure WMS or even outside to outside of tire? I've been playing with measurements forever I need to cut my housings just trying to decide where I want to end up.Stock D60s are what 69.5 mogs are 72ish I cant remember id like to be a bit wider than stock D60 with quite a bit of backspacing on my wheels.
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Old 06-29-2014, 08:55 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I notice in those Ackerman pics you don't have the factory steering stops bolted on. Are you going to try for something more aggressive than the 30* and 40* factory steering angles? I wonder how much more is possible before you completely bind up the joints or just tear the kingpins to shreds with the ram?


-G
Those are old pics. With the 47's on the current vehicle its looking like I'll end up with 30deg in the front. I'll likely shim the double ended ram to control the stops.

I don't know what the rear steering will be. It will be pretty limited unless I tub the rear of it.
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Old 06-29-2014, 08:57 PM   #17 (permalink)
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How much did you cut off the housings? With the new hubs did you measure WMS or even outside to outside of tire? I've been playing with measurements forever I need to cut my housings just trying to decide where I want to end up.Stock D60s are what 69.5 mogs are 72ish I cant remember id like to be a bit wider than stock D60 with quite a bit of backspacing on my wheels.
I cut 7.5" becasue that offset the front and centered the rear when using two steering axles by shortening short side of one and longside of another.

I would have to check but think i'm 69.5" @ WMS. Its been a long time and dont rmember unless i check my records or measure.
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Old 06-30-2014, 08:02 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Very unique and cool project!
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Old 07-08-2014, 12:01 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Looks good. And I thought I was looking for a tough project with F+ R steer 406's and 43's in an early bronco. Got your work cut out for ya..........
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Old 07-10-2014, 09:38 PM   #20 (permalink)
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thanks for the positive comments gents.

I've made a little progress but nothing picture worthy yet. coilovers arrive soon. I think I still have bumps in my shop from the planned buggy build and a currie anti-rock bar. although not sure if it will be the right width with the new build.

in the interim here are a couple more pics of my steering arms. as noted before they need some shaving done to clear the tires but real happy with the double shear and reinforcing the box to backing plate connection.



yes thats cobwebs....



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Old 07-11-2014, 05:24 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I'm a bit puzzled by the bolt areas in those steering arms.

It seems like Blue Torch Fab did a similar round circle cutout at each bolt..... It's really not needed to clearance and it removes valuable strength. Seems like when I saw images of twisted BTF arms the bending initiates near those areas where the material is most delicate.

Maybe the MSI boxes I'm using are different in that area, but my steering arms are cut so that there is almost a square, straight cut across that area....

Like this:



That plate just drops down over the top of the portal box and picks up 3 of the factory bolts as anchor points.

Don't know if that type of setup would work for you, but with the forces involved it makes sense to give yourself every bit of strength in those areas that you can get.

-G
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Old 07-11-2014, 10:20 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I'm a bit puzzled by the bolt areas in those steering arms.

It seems like Blue Torch Fab did a similar round circle cutout at each bolt..... It's really not needed to clearance and it removes valuable strength. Seems like when I saw images of twisted BTF arms the bending initiates near those areas where the material is most delicate.

Maybe the MSI boxes I'm using are different in that area, but my steering arms are cut so that there is almost a square, straight cut across that area....

Like this:

That plate just drops down over the top of the portal box and picks up 3 of the factory bolts as anchor points.

Don't know if that type of setup would work for you, but with the forces involved it makes sense to give yourself every bit of strength in those areas that you can get.

-G
yep, it is that way due to the casting. I ground as much as I could to improve what I have. But that's why I made mine different the the BTF. As you can see theirs only attaches to one side. I didn't know there were issues with it bending but not surprised in the least bit as that's what i saw happening and why i built my own. The forces to bend mine are significantly greater than this setup. My whole setup is all 3/8" plate as well as being completely boxed in. I believe it will work well, but testing will tell...especially with those 47's.

I would like to think mine are significantly better than this hokey setup.



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Old 07-11-2014, 01:22 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I was looking at the same thing on the BTF arms I have.Although im thinking I will go with 74welds knuckles and arms.If I do use the BTFs that I have looks to be simple enough to gusset the inside around those bolt holes.There is a little space to do some small but important gussets. Ive only heard 1 or 2 guys having issues I believe 1 of those guys had other steering problems that helped distort the bolt holes.Ive seem several guys running them front and rear with no issues at all.That being said if I run them ill def do some strengthening in that area.Kabuki yours look to be fine to me being they are thicker and bolt from both sides those look good!
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Old 07-16-2014, 10:51 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Any input on link diameters for this build?


For the uppers I purchased a stick of 1.625x.250 wall tube. This way I can just chase the ID with a drill and then tap the 12.5x12tpi. Did the rears already. I think this should be fine for uppers but open to input.

My old links were 2" x .250 wall (both uppers and lowers). These are to short now but I can cut them and make an internal spud to splice them.

But I also have a full stick of 2" x .375 wall tubing just sitting in my shop that I purchased for another project an never used. May be a bit overkill... but also a nice fresh start with no splices. I think this may be the way to go at least for the rear lower links.

Thoughts?

Using Evolution Monster Heims.
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Old 07-16-2014, 11:43 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Throw your link positions into either the 3-Link or 4-Link calculator and check out the "Material" tab to see what sort of Factors of Safety you have for "Bending", "Buckling" and "Yield".... you can even put the rod end itself into those calcs (Frankenheims are 500,000psi IIRC).....

Obviously, you have a LOT of strength in your heims (great quality!) so I'd be trying to insure that the link material is well-matched to them..... once you get above maybe FS=6 or so, it's all just bragging rights anyway. If you see forces that are higher than that in real life, you're probably already dead....

For reference:

My fullsize K5 (roughly 6000 Lbs) is using 2.25" Solid Aluminum lowers (EMF "Large" heims)
For the uppers (rear 4-link) - 1.75" Solid Aluminum with EMF "Medium" heims
For the single upper (front 3-link) - 2.00 Solid Aluminum with EMF "Large" heims

My original steel setup was built from 2" x .500" wall DOM (lowers) and 1.5" x .375" wall DOM (uppers). I'm going to save a TON of link weight and still have loads of design margin for bending, buckling and yield.


-G
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