Solid axle swap questions - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > General Tech > Newbie General 4x4 Discussion
Notices

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-01-2018, 10:31 PM   #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Member # 854870
Posts: 0
Solid axle swap questions

Hey guys! I am in the early stages of planning a solid axle swap on my '05 Dakota with a rear axle swap done at the same time. I've wanted to learn more about fabrication and mechanics for a long time now, so I figure there's no better way to learn than to throw myself in to a build. I've done a bunch of research and think I have a general idea of what I'll need but there are still a lot of questions I was hoping to answer.

First thing first, before tackling this project I'm going to put a focus on learning the fabrication skills needed. I've got some basic skills already, but not having a work space available hasn't let me weld or fabricate to my hearts content. My plan was to learn along the way and for anything that is beyond me, I'll outsource the job to get help from people that do have the skills.

The goals of the axle swaps are to gain strength and reliability for remote camping/wheeling trips, and to improve ride quality as much as possible. The current IFS setup rattles like hell and just feels terrible even with my ball joints and bushings in not terrible shape. I replaced just about everything (ball joints, upper control arms, sway bar links and bushings, front struts) in the front end when I got the truck a few years ago, so I'm not too keen to drop a bunch of cash for the same shitty ride.

I am not building it to be a full on rock crawler or prerunner, but I do want to be able to take hard lines for some fun from time to time. I'd also potentially be using it for search and rescue missions, so being able to rely on it to get me in and out is critical.

I'm looking at 78-79 F150 Dana 44 axles for the swap. I'm planning on running 35's w/ e lockers so I don't think I'll need the extra strength (and weight) of Dana 60's. As well, better ground clearance with the 44s would be a plus in my books. Both axles would be getting a rebuild (seals/regear/new diff covers/etc) where I'm thinking of upgrading to chromo shafts (possibly doing some simple DOM tubing trusses if needed for link mounting.)

From what I can tell, the front axle on the 78-79 F150s have a driver's side diff (same as on my Dakota) which should make adapting to my existing transfer case easier. Suspension set up wise, I was leaning towards a 3 link setup with coil springs/coilovers but am open to suggestions.

The rear axle swap should be pretty straight forward, as far as swapping axles can go. I'm still trying to decide on what kind of suspension setup I want to run though. Other plans for the truck are to build a flatbed, so anything that needs a bed cage is off the table. I am considering either a triangulated 4 link or staying leaf sprung but adding traction bars to limit axle wrap. If I stick with leafs, would using Chevy leafs be a good starting point or should I go for a custom leaf pack?

My biggest questions are about steering setup, driveshafts, and how to go about the ABS.

Steering - Right now, the truck uses rack and pinion steering. What I'd like to do is a high steer setup, but I don't know much about how to convert the steering over. Because it wont be a dirt only rig, going full hydro is not an option just from a safety standpoint. I'm wondering if some form of ram assist would be helpful though. Any advice/schooling on steering is appreciated as I am a little lost here.

Driveshafts - am I correct in assuming that all they really need to do is have the right connections to the diffs/transmission/transfer case and be the correct lengths? Feel free to school me on anything I'm missing.

ABS - worth keeping or is it more of a hassle to try and keep? I don't know how exactly it is set up right now, whether it runs off of my VSS or a tone ring or something. If so, how much of a hassle is it to disable (I'm meaning in general, not specific to my vehicle as it's likely impossible to know without having tried it.)

Cheers!

Last edited by moderndaynorseman; 09-01-2018 at 10:43 PM.
moderndaynorseman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-02-2018, 08:54 PM   #2 (permalink)
CSP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Member # 1533
Location: Parker, CO
Posts: 4,474
This is not a learn as you go endeavor. Not in the slightest, considering the fab skills aren't there.
CSP is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Old 09-02-2018, 10:51 PM   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Member # 854870
Posts: 0
How and where would you suggest that I learn the skills then?

I am just starting up a 2 year engineering design program with lots of cad classes, which will at least give me a starting point. I've always been somewhat mechanically savvy, just haven't spent a whole lot of time around cars as no one else in my family or immediate friends are big car people. I was also planning on taking some welding courses (probably both MIG and TIG) to learn the basics and then practice with other projects (welding table, wood stoves, bumpers/sliders, etc.) before starting the build.

Last edited by moderndaynorseman; 09-02-2018 at 11:18 PM.
moderndaynorseman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-03-2018, 07:29 AM   #4 (permalink)
RXT
Registered User
 
RXT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Member # 493505
Location: Gainesville, Fl
Posts: 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by moderndaynorseman View Post
First thing first, before tackling this project I'm going to put a focus on learning the fabrication skills needed. I've got some basic skills already, but not having a work space available hasn't let me weld or fabricate to my hearts content. My plan was to learn along the way and for anything that is beyond me, I'll outsource the job to get help from people that do have the skills.
Kudos for wanting to learn on a new project....this is a very big job to take on, and I know what you'll be going thru. I've wanted to learn too but space equipment and lack of experience prevented me from doing it myself...So I went and outsourced all of the major welding and fab work, I wasn't able to do. Even then, it took about three years and lots of money to complete my own Dakota sas

Quote:
From what I can tell, the front axle on the 78-79 F150s have a driver's side diff (same as on my Dakota) which should make adapting to my existing transfer case easier. Suspension set up wise, I was leaning towards a 3 link setup with coil springs/coilovers but am open to suggestions.
At this stage you have tons of options. Depending on how custom you want to go, the simple option maybe to utilize how Ford mounted these axles under their trucks. The Dakota frame is almost as wide as the 70s F150. If you can get the spring buckets (all you need is any spring bucket either from a van, 2wd 4wd etc) bolt them to the frame, then use the Ford radius arms. The only major fabrication would be, welding the radius arm brackets to the Dak frame, and building a track bar and a track bar bracket. From there it's brakes and steering. If you want a three link and coil overs, things get a lot more complex...Doable but you'll be building the links and fabbing up everything else.

Quote:
The rear axle swap should be pretty straight forward, as far as swapping axles can go. I'm still trying to decide on what kind of suspension setup I want to run though. Other plans for the truck are to build a flatbed, so anything that needs a bed cage is off the table. I am considering either a triangulated 4 link or staying leaf sprung but adding traction bars to limit axle wrap. If I stick with leafs, would using Chevy leafs be a good starting point or should I go for a custom leaf pack?
Like the front, the more custom you go, the better your skills should be. For simplicity, you could keep the Dakota springs and just mount an axle....or if you happen to have a 9.25 under that Dakota, it'll be a good mate to the 44 you plan to use up front. The one thing you'll need to do is match up lug patterns. Chevy leaves are popular because they're longer and flex. But you aren't rock crawling, so the question is, do you really need that much flex?

Quote:
My biggest questions are about steering setup, driveshafts, and how to go about the ABS.

Steering; Your Dak has rack & pinion. It can't be used. You'll have to convert to a steering box type system. You'll need to find a steering box to do this job, then get it to mount on the frame. Depending on tire size, you may want to consider ram assist. D-shafts are pretty straight forward. You can farm that part out. ABS will be really tough to do with a NON abs brake system on that front axle. And it might not work anyway if you go with a larger tire. You can go old school here and leave that off. Just have some good brakes

Ed
__________________
99 Dakota, Cummins, 47RE, NP241HD, Dana60/70, 41.5 Rockers. I love it when a plan comes together!
RXT is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-03-2018, 07:52 AM   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
clb 017's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Member # 166307
Location: Nannyfornia
Posts: 2,092
Big azz endeavor...
Be careful biting off to much, sounds like a 2 year build for YOU..
These guys do it in a weekend
Double the pricetag you have in mind.

If you are still in do it.

Have someone look over your shoulder cuz the busload of nuns and I do not want to die.
__________________
If its made in china IT WILL FAIL!
Phawk photofukkit.
clb 017 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-03-2018, 10:19 AM   #6 (permalink)
CSP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Member # 1533
Location: Parker, CO
Posts: 4,474
Quote:
Originally Posted by moderndaynorseman View Post
How and where would you suggest that I learn the skills then?
On a project that isn't suspension or steering related.
CSP is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-03-2018, 01:33 PM   #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Member # 854870
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by RXT View Post
Kudos for wanting to learn on a new project....this is a very big job to take on, and I know what you'll be going thru. I've wanted to learn too but space equipment and lack of experience prevented me from doing it myself...So I went and outsourced all of the major welding and fab work, I wasn't able to do. Even then, it took about three years and lots of money to complete my own Dakota sas
I've got a couple years before I can start the project with going back to school, so I've got lots of time to plan things out ahead of time. It'd be pretty sweet if I could do as much ahead of time so that it could be done over a winter (ours last from November to April most of the time) for the rest of it. But if not, it's all good as long as I'm still able to go camping

Quote:
Originally Posted by RXT View Post
At this stage you have tons of options. Depending on how custom you want to go, the simple option maybe to utilize how Ford mounted these axles under their trucks. The Dakota frame is almost as wide as the 70s F150. If you can get the spring buckets (all you need is any spring bucket either from a van, 2wd 4wd etc) bolt them to the frame, then use the Ford radius arms. The only major fabrication would be, welding the radius arm brackets to the Dak frame, and building a track bar and a track bar bracket. From there it's brakes and steering. If you want a three link and coil overs, things get a lot more complex...Doable but you'll be building the links and fabbing up everything else.
The similar widths was another reason I was looking at them as a donor vehicle. If what I've read is correct, and depending on what wheels I use, the track width should get me where I want front + rear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RXT View Post
Like the front, the more custom you go, the better your skills should be. For simplicity, you could keep the Dakota springs and just mount an axle....or if you happen to have a 9.25 under that Dakota, it'll be a good mate to the 44 you plan to use up front. The one thing you'll need to do is match up lug patterns. Chevy leaves are popular because they're longer and flex. But you aren't rock crawling, so the question is, do you really need that much flex?
I was thinking of the Chevy springs to match the front, depending on how much wheel travel/articulation I build into the SAS. I don't think I'll want to go any higher than 4" of lift and level f+r with 35's, so whatever travel number that works out too should be good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RXT View Post
Steering; Your Dak has rack & pinion. It can't be used. You'll have to convert to a steering box type system. You'll need to find a steering box to do this job, then get it to mount on the frame. Depending on tire size, you may want to consider ram assist. D-shafts are pretty straight forward. You can farm that part out. ABS will be really tough to do with a NON abs brake system on that front axle. And it might not work anyway if you go with a larger tire. You can go old school here and leave that off. Just have some good brakes
Any advice on steering boxes to look at? Quick searches show a ton of different kinds with lots of different steering ratios.

I was planning on outsourcing the driveshafts, lots of driveline shops local to my area.

The front brakes are already disc on the new axle and I was going to convert the rear to disc as well. Is ABS something that can be turned off in a ECM tune along with all of the wiring/lines getting deleted? Having a constant dash light would get old pretty fast, haha.

Thanks for the advice!
moderndaynorseman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-03-2018, 02:18 PM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
YotaAtieToo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Member # 25632
Location: Magalia, Jefferson State
Posts: 11,723
Skip the old axles imo, they are getting too expensive for 40 year old used parts.

I would look at super duty axles, even a Dana 50 would be better than that old 44.
YotaAtieToo is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-04-2018, 09:03 AM   #9 (permalink)
RXT
Registered User
 
RXT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Member # 493505
Location: Gainesville, Fl
Posts: 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by moderndaynorseman View Post
Any advice on steering boxes to look at? Quick searches show a ton of different kinds with lots of different steering ratios.
Sorry I can't really give you advice on which steering box to use. On my 99, I had the original box rebuilt and tapped for hydraulic assist. Now I do know that when Chrysler dropped the steering box on Dakotas for rack and pinion, the area where the box used to go on the frame had been changed. I don't know why they went and did this, but I understand that you can't just bolt on a Dakota steering box to the frame anymore, without modifying the frame. It shouldn't stop a component builder, but it does add to the list of things that need to be done. Now on mine, I had the axle (A Dana 60) pushed forward a couple of inches. The Dakota box uses a rear pointing steering arm. Between the arm and the axle location, there was a clearance problem. I had to move the box about two inches forward so that the arm didn't hit the differential.

When you put yours together, you may want to consider a steering box with a steering arm pointing forward. This will make for lots of clearance between the steering arm and differential. I know some Ford boxes are this way and thats what you might want to use.

There are a number of aftermarket boxes out there. Some will have whats called quick ratio. This is preferred for racing applications where you reduce the number of turns from lock to lock. For trail driving and daily drivers, quick ratio might not be your thing, but you might want to look into it to see if thats something you like or want to pass on.

Quote:
The front brakes are already disc on the new axle and I was going to convert the rear to disc as well. Is ABS something that can be turned off in a ECM tune along with all of the wiring/lines getting deleted? Having a constant dash light would get old pretty fast, haha.

Thanks for the advice!
What does your Dakota have? 2 wheel or 4 wheel ABS? I know some had 2 or 4, but I don't know when 4 wheel ABS became standard. Assuming 4 wheel ABS, ABS will be hard to incorporate into your build. Sure theres discs on the front axle but for ABS at the front end to work there needs to be a tone ring. With the Dakota, the tone rings are located inside the wheel bearings. But that old Ford axle doesn't have a tone ring at all. So theres no way to generate a signal. If you want ABS that badly, you'll need an axle with a tone ring. Or figure out how and where to put them on an old 44.

For the rear axle, the tone ring is with the ring gear. If you keep your current axle, you can keep the rear ABS. If your Dakota is 2 wheel ABS, then you could just keep the rear axle you have. Then just convert the 6 lug pattern to match the Ford 5 lug that would be at the front.

Converting the rear to discs, could be done with an axle swap. Newer Dakotas and Durangos had rear disc brakes (and ABS)



Ed
__________________
99 Dakota, Cummins, 47RE, NP241HD, Dana60/70, 41.5 Rockers. I love it when a plan comes together!

Last edited by RXT; 09-04-2018 at 09:06 AM.
RXT is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-04-2018, 10:48 AM   #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Member # 854870
Posts: 0
I sent an email to Redhead steering and the guy I spoke to said that they could do custom steering boxes, which could save a fair bit of work. Might need a different steering column, but I know a few machinists that might be able to help me with that.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think I have 4 wheel ABS. Sounds like it will be simpler to ax it in the build, so I'll just plan on that

I'll most likely pull the rear axle out of whatever donor truck I can get my hands on so it matches the front right off the hop. The '79 F150's use a 5x5.5 bcd which is the same as my truck uses right now, so that will be helpful since I can use my existing wheels for rolling it around the shop haha.
moderndaynorseman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-04-2018, 11:37 AM   #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Member # 4243
Location: Westcoast Canuck... eh?
Posts: 5,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by moderndaynorseman View Post
I'm looking at 78-79 F150 Dana 44 axles for the swap....
You should be able to pickup a whole F150 or bronco rolling chassis for about the same price as the axles.... I did anyways, granted it was rusty. Gets you all the links, mounts, brackets, steering box, etc. maybe even some driveshafts. Usually only 3.50 gearing though.

The Dakota wheels may be a bolt pattern match, but check the center hole size. Backspacing may be too much to use for anything but shop rollers.

ABS should be the least of your concern. Dodge chose to skip it on other '05 models (i.e. Jeep Liberty). You won't have a VSS in the Ford 9" pumpkin either.

You might be better off with 05+ SD axles for strength/value.... comes in 4.10, stock. Easier to find in ready-to-use condition because its not 35-40yo iron.
__________________
Dodge cobbler... (1stgen cummins theme)
u2slow is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-04-2018, 02:30 PM   #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Member # 854870
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by u2slow View Post
You should be able to pickup a whole F150 or bronco rolling chassis for about the same price as the axles.... I did anyways, granted it was rusty. Gets you all the links, mounts, brackets, steering box, etc. maybe even some driveshafts. Usually only 3.50 gearing though.

The Dakota wheels may be a bolt pattern match, but check the center hole size. Backspacing may be too much to use for anything but shop rollers.

ABS should be the least of your concern. Dodge chose to skip it on other '05 models (i.e. Jeep Liberty). You won't have a VSS in the Ford 9" pumpkin either.

You might be better off with 05+ SD axles for strength/value.... comes in 4.10, stock. Easier to find in ready-to-use condition because its not 35-40yo iron.
You are correct about the center bore, it's considerably bigger than the stock Dakota wheels. Backspacing may be okay with the extra width compared to stock but I was planning on new wheels for the build anyways, so that isn't the end of the world.

I'm not sure I'll need the extra brawn of the SD axles as when everything is all done, I'm estimating a total weight (sans passengers + non everyday gear) of no more than 5500. Granted, that is a very rough guess based on curb weight + calculations on approximate weights of bumpers/sliders/winch/flatbed/etc. and will likely change a fair bit. Curb weight right now is around 4500lbs, give or take. I haven't taken it to a scale yet, but I will be doing that before the build gets started so that I can keep track of things.

That said, erring on the side of caution won't hurt anything and there's bound to be considerably less fatigue on a new set of axles. What would you suggest looking at specifically for donor vehicles?

That bodes well for the ABS as I was also thinking of getting the engine from the diesel Liberty's swapped in around the same time. They're not super powerful but with a tune and egr delete, they can get pretty darn torquey with pretty decent mileage still.
moderndaynorseman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-04-2018, 03:00 PM   #13 (permalink)
RXT
Registered User
 
RXT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Member # 493505
Location: Gainesville, Fl
Posts: 647
I would guesstimate a weight of over 6000lbs with all that you've mentioned

You may not need the extra brawn of SD axles, but one way or the other, you're looking at some serious decisions to make. For example, you could still do the late 70s Ford 44, but you'll certainly have to rebuild them. Theres no guarantee that the SD axles are ready to roll either. Remember those trucks were built to work and those axles maybe pretty worn by the time you get your hands on a pair. But those are a bit easier to find and still have the strength advantage. One of the other problems with those are, they are in pretty high demand and prices may reflect that.

Specific donor vehicles…Ford SD are top of the list. A Dana 50 will save you a bit since most are looking for 60s. Old Dana 44s could be considered but add a full rebuild to the price and think about adding in a set of aftermarket axle and stub shafts.

What I ended up doing was buying a Dodge Dana 60 out of a 98 Ram 3500. Of the 60s out there, these axles are considered the least desirable. They get passed up all the time, that also makes them cheaper up front. But they are 60s and all of them can be seriously upgraded. And thats what I did (Which I would have done with a Ford 60 anyway)

Good luck trying to find a diesel Liberty. Those aren't easy to come by.

Ed
__________________
99 Dakota, Cummins, 47RE, NP241HD, Dana60/70, 41.5 Rockers. I love it when a plan comes together!
RXT is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-04-2018, 03:15 PM   #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Member # 854870
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by RXT View Post
I would guesstimate a weight of over 6000lbs with all that you've mentioned

You may not need the extra brawn of SD axles, but one way or the other, you're looking at some serious decisions to make. For example, you could still do the late 70s Ford 44, but you'll certainly have to rebuild them. Theres no guarantee that the SD axles are ready to roll either. Remember those trucks were built to work and those axles maybe pretty worn by the time you get your hands on a pair. But those are a bit easier to find and still have the strength advantage. One of the other problems with those are, they are in pretty high demand and prices may reflect that.

Specific donor vehicles…Ford SD are top of the list. A Dana 50 will save you a bit since most are looking for 60s. Old Dana 44s could be considered but add a full rebuild to the price and think about adding in a set of aftermarket axle and stub shafts.

What I ended up doing was buying a Dodge Dana 60 out of a 98 Ram 3500. Of the 60s out there, these axles are considered the least desirable. They get passed up all the time, that also makes them cheaper up front. But they are 60s and all of them can be seriously upgraded. And thats what I did (Which I would have done with a Ford 60 anyway)

Good luck trying to find a diesel Liberty. Those aren't easy to come by.

Ed
You are probably right with the 6000lb number. Other small things I wanted to do was soundproof the interior and maybe pull the rear seats for a dog platform instead, which will eat into that number.

No matter which way I go, I'll want to do a rebuild of the axles just so I know how to take em apart and put em back together so that I can fix them if something goes wrong trail side. I'm not concerned about axles needing a rebuild or even a regear since I want to run lockers front and rear, which means opening them up anyways.

I've seen a few Liberty CRD's in Alberta but most of them are higher km than I'd like, especially given how finicky (read absolutely retarded) the EGR's were on those engines. Saw a few more out east, but that's a hell of a long way to go for essentially just the engine.
moderndaynorseman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-04-2018, 04:27 PM   #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Member # 18776
Location: Grass Valley, CA
Posts: 1,319
Quote:
Originally Posted by moderndaynorseman View Post
How and where would you suggest that I learn the skills then?

I am just starting up a 2 year engineering design program with lots of cad classes, which will at least give me a starting point. I've always been somewhat mechanically savvy, just haven't spent a whole lot of time around cars as no one else in my family or immediate friends are big car people. I was also planning on taking some welding courses (probably both MIG and TIG) to learn the basics and then practice with other projects (welding table, wood stoves, bumpers/sliders, etc.) before starting the build.
Given the courses you are taking, and plan to take, I would wait to do the SAS until you could do it as part of a welding class project, and just fix the worn out IFS components in the meantime.
CA_Snowtoy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-04-2018, 05:35 PM   #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Member # 854870
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA_Snowtoy View Post
Given the courses you are taking, and plan to take, I would wait to do the SAS until you could do it as part of a welding class project, and just fix the worn out IFS components in the meantime.
Nothing is worn out again YET, and I'll replace things to keep it rolling until I can do the swap as it's my daily. Won't stop me from grumbling about it though

Before I get started, I'll pick up some little shitbox car for bootin' around while the build is on so that there's no pressure to rush it.

Thanks for the advice! I'll see what kind of project freedom there is in the welding courses I was looking at.
moderndaynorseman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-06-2018, 11:16 PM   #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Member # 854870
Posts: 0
What kind of joints do you guys prefer for suspension and steering links, track bars, etc? I'm trying to figure out what is best for each spot and am leaning towards using Johnny joints for all suspension links and heims for steering, but any input one way or another would be good.
moderndaynorseman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

** A VERIFICATION EMAIL IS SENT TO THIS ADDRESS TO COMPLETE REGISTRATION!! **

Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.