Hydro Assist Troubleshooting Noob- where to start - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > General Tech > Newbie General 4x4 Discussion
Notices

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-07-2019, 08:25 AM   #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Member # 28880
Location: Spreckels, Ca
Posts: 148
Hydro Assist Troubleshooting Noob- where to start

I've got an old(I'm guessing old judging by the amount of missing paint and rust on the ram) howe hydro assist system that was installed sometime before this jeep became mine. It works amazing at low speed about 90% of the time- barely takes any effort in the rocks, cruises down the road just fine.

Things get less amazing when we're going fast and need to countersteer quickly. Feels like suddenly I don't get any help from the system. I looked in the reservoir and it's full, the system has no leaks, and generally stays cool(has a temp gauge in the dash). Where should I look next?
Harry Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-07-2019, 10:41 AM   #2 (permalink)
P.B.A.
 
RANGERROD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Member # 172656
Location: Your moms
Posts: 4,108
Search ďslow steeringĒ lots of hydro assist threads will pop up. Iím a newb pretty much myself but ram size the larger and longer the slower as all that fluid has to go from one side to the other relatively fast. Also piston size in steering box. Iím running a really small Toyota box and a realatively large ram 1.75x8 and itís on the slow side to counter steer. Also Iíve heard where the box is tapped and if the fittings are a sharp 90 can slow the fluid down.

Hope this helps.
__________________
Official policer of all 348 forums.
RANGERROD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Old 01-07-2019, 10:49 AM   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Member # 28880
Location: Spreckels, Ca
Posts: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by RANGERROD View Post
Search ďslow steeringĒ lots of hydro assist threads will pop up. Iím a newb pretty much myself but ram size the larger and longer the slower as all that fluid has to go from one side to the other relatively fast. Also piston size in steering box. Iím running a really small Toyota box and a realatively large ram 1.75x8 and itís on the slow side to counter steer. Also Iíve heard where the box is tapped and if the fittings are a sharp 90 can slow the fluid down.

Hope this helps.
Thanks! I think I need to figure out what steering box I'm running first, everything else seems to be setup just like other people with a howe assist, so I'm guessing that's what's different.
Harry Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-07-2019, 12:12 PM   #4 (permalink)
P.B.A.
 
RANGERROD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Member # 172656
Location: Your moms
Posts: 4,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Johnson View Post
Thanks! I think I need to figure out what steering box I'm running first, everything else seems to be setup just like other people with a howe assist, so I'm guessing that's what's different.
Jeep is Saginaw box. Not sure if there isnít different piston sizes. Maybe some one will chime in.
__________________
Official policer of all 348 forums.
RANGERROD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-09-2019, 09:16 PM   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Member # 861200
Location: NW Montana
Posts: 0
Yep
Wallie is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-10-2019, 07:18 AM   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Member # 196897
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 94
If you are slow at fast steering you need to increase the oil volume which generally means a high volume pump but it could also be having too small a hydraulic line to handle the flow.

A smaller diameter ram will also help in high speed but may cost you the power you need at slow crawling.

You also want to make sure your reservoir is big enough to supply enough oil in high flow pumps.
thedirtman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-10-2019, 10:35 AM   #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Member # 28880
Location: Spreckels, Ca
Posts: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedirtman View Post
If you are slow at fast steering you need to increase the oil volume which generally means a high volume pump but it could also be having too small a hydraulic line to handle the flow.

A smaller diameter ram will also help in high speed but may cost you the power you need at slow crawling.

You also want to make sure your reservoir is big enough to supply enough oil in high flow pumps.
Great info! Thanks!
Harry Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-11-2019, 06:28 AM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Member # 548137
Location: E Texas
Posts: 87
Been reading up on this, will need assist on my uprades. What are the generally acceptable size ram for given tire size? West Texas says
1.5" up to 37" tire
1.75 up to 40"
2" for 40" and up

So you want the smallest ram that fits your application to improve steering speed?



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Last edited by denverd1; 01-11-2019 at 06:28 AM.
denverd1 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-11-2019, 06:40 AM   #9 (permalink)
P.B.A.
 
RANGERROD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Member # 172656
Location: Your moms
Posts: 4,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd1 View Post
Been reading up on this, will need assist on my uprades. What are the generally acceptable size ram for given tire size? West Texas says
1.5" up to 37" tire
1.75 up to 40"
2" for 40" and up

So you want the smallest ram that fits your application to improve steering speed?



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Thatís exactly what psc told me when I was building my kit. I have 40ís and Iíve gotten my tires wedged enough I couldnít move them with my 1.75x8Ē ram. I wouldnít want to give up any power for speed even though my system is on the slow side like stated above.
__________________
Official policer of all 348 forums.
RANGERROD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-11-2019, 07:44 AM   #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Member # 548137
Location: E Texas
Posts: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by RANGERROD View Post
Thatís exactly what psc told me when I was building my kit. I have 40ís and Iíve gotten my tires wedged enough I couldnít move them with my 1.75x8Ē ram. I wouldnít want to give up any power for speed even though my system is on the slow side like stated above.
smaller pulley on pump would spin it faster. is that a bandaid or a legitimate fix?

or do you need a bigger steering gear to handle the increased flow?
denverd1 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-11-2019, 07:48 AM   #11 (permalink)
P.B.A.
 
RANGERROD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Member # 172656
Location: Your moms
Posts: 4,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd1 View Post
smaller pulley on pump would spin it faster. is that a bandaid or a legitimate fix?

or do you need a bigger steering gear to handle the increased flow?
I’ve been told that you can over spin a pump. Psc has some info on their site about crank pulley size and pulley size ratio. Again some great threads on here just have to search for them

Edit: specs on your setup might yield more answers. Size of ram, type of pump and line fittings etc.
__________________
Official policer of all 348 forums.

Last edited by RANGERROD; 01-11-2019 at 07:54 AM.
RANGERROD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-11-2019, 07:48 AM   #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Member # 196897
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 94
I would call it more of a bandaid and people generally do it so they have more flow durning slow crawling where your engine RPM is low.
thedirtman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-11-2019, 08:48 AM   #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Member # 548137
Location: E Texas
Posts: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by RANGERROD View Post
Iíve been told that you can over spin a pump. Psc has some info on their site about crank pulley size and pulley size ratio. Again some great threads on here just have to search for them

Edit: specs on your setup might yield more answers. Size of ram, type of pump and line fittings etc.
for me? I'm still in the ass scratching phase of development. Got axles and 37s, I'll be building around
denverd1 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-11-2019, 12:15 PM   #14 (permalink)
P.B.A.
 
RANGERROD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Member # 172656
Location: Your moms
Posts: 4,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd1 View Post
for me? I'm still in the ass scratching phase of development. Got axles and 37s, I'll be building around
Motor will more than likely dictate pump unless itís a real common application like last. Then youíll have choices. 37ís you want 1.5Ē ram. Length you wonít know until you mock up everything. But on my Cj I bought a 1.5Ēx8Ē ram. Iíll limit it to 5.75Ē internally and I can always use the same ram on a Dana 60 down the road when the time comes.

Again all these questions Iíve searched myself more than enough info on here.
__________________
Official policer of all 348 forums.
RANGERROD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-14-2019, 08:51 PM   #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Member # 548137
Location: E Texas
Posts: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by RANGERROD View Post
Motor will more than likely dictate pump unless itís a real common application like last. Then youíll have choices. 37ís you want 1.5Ē ram. Length you wonít know until you mock up everything. But on my Cj I bought a 1.5Ēx8Ē ram. Iíll limit it to 5.75Ē internally and I can always use the same ram on a Dana 60 down the road when the time comes.



Again all these questions Iíve searched myself more than enough info on here.
Jeep XJ with 4.0. The gear worth tapping for hydro assist or should I find a better one? Will likely underdrive the pulley for low rpm flow

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
denverd1 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-14-2019, 09:48 PM   #16 (permalink)
P.B.A.
 
RANGERROD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Member # 172656
Location: Your moms
Posts: 4,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd1 View Post
Jeep XJ with 4.0. The gear worth tapping for hydro assist or should I find a better one? Will likely underdrive the pulley for low rpm flow

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Yeah pretty common box to use. Plenty of videos online on how to do it.
__________________
Official policer of all 348 forums.
RANGERROD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

** A VERIFICATION EMAIL IS SENT TO THIS ADDRESS TO COMPLETE REGISTRATION!! **

Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.