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Old 03-26-2019, 05:54 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Seeking feedback 4x4 app concept

Hi all

I'm seeking feedback for a new 4x4 app concept we are building in Australia and its suitability for use in the US.

4WDing is quite popular down here but a big painpoint experienced by many of us is that it's difficult to find tracks suited to our specific vehicle setup. Part of the problem is that trail conditions change often due to weather and traffic so track difficulty can change with it.

Another issue is that much of the information on trails that can be found is usually out of date and really subjective, depending on who went out that day and the capability of the car he was driving.

We are aiming to solve these issues by building a database of trails whose conditions and difficulty grades are automatically updated by analysing crowdsourced GPS traces of our users as they go up tracks. Since we know the vehicle setup of our users, we can adjust track grades based on their relative performance up a trail when compared to different vehicles.

My question is: are these issues commonly experienced by off-roaders in the states? How do you find where to go? Are there issues with trail difficulty changing often?

Any info is appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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Old 03-26-2019, 06:12 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I don't have interest in sharing my trails with the public.
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Old 03-26-2019, 06:15 AM   #3 (permalink)
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You mean Ways but self tracking?


Yould prob be better of hunting and taging drop bears, crocs and redbacks with Tile tabs and track them with an app.
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Old 03-26-2019, 06:27 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Legit question. How the hell do you guys get service in bfe 500 miles from fuck all but deadly animals and mud?
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Old 03-26-2019, 10:26 AM   #5 (permalink)
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i'm not really interested in anything associated with Crowdsourced shit....i hate most people
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Old 03-26-2019, 10:39 AM   #6 (permalink)
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1. That happens to every trail. Stuff changes, that’s life.

2. Friends or social media.

3. Annual rains change every trail, even in the “dry” desert.
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Old 03-27-2019, 04:19 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I don't have interest in sharing my trails with the public.
Same. There's no legal wheeling where I live unless you're some rich fuckwit in a Jeep club. Sharing trails is how you get them shut down.
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Old 03-27-2019, 02:45 PM   #8 (permalink)
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You mean Ways but self tracking?


Yould prob be better of hunting and taging drop bears, crocs and redbacks with Tile tabs and track them with an app.
Yes it would be kind-of like Waze for off-road. There's no signal usually as soon as you enter a forest over here, the app works offline.

Plus I was more concerned with Grizzlies when I went camping in the states than I am with crocs or redbacks here. I guess it's what you're used to. Not looking to mess with dropbears though...

Last edited by newtracs4x4; 03-27-2019 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 03-27-2019, 02:49 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I don't have interest in sharing my trails with the public.
So are most trails where you are illegal to drive on? Do you cut the trails yourselves? Does this differ state to state or is it the norm nationally. Genuinely keen to understand more.

Down here everything is mostly legal but depends on the rules in each state. They use the trails to fight fires.
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Old 03-27-2019, 02:50 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I don't have interest in sharing my trails with the public.
Same. There's no legal wheeling where I live unless you're some rich fuckwit in a Jeep club. Sharing trails is how you get them shut down.
Can I ask what area this is? Is this the norm across the country?
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Old 03-27-2019, 03:02 PM   #11 (permalink)
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1. That happens to every trail. Stuff changes, that’s life.

2. Friends or social media.

3. Annual rains change every trail, even in the “dry” desert.
All these points are similar to our experiences down here.

Problems I have are, when I'm looking for a challenge the tracks I arrive at may be dry, too easy, or recently repaired by the state. When I'm trying to just pass through an area the trails can be impassable for my car. So there's 2 sides to knowing what you're in for - is it too easy or is it too hard. Generally we are aiming for something in the middle most of the time.

Relying on friends and social media is ok, but it's still a hassle to try to cobble together information and plan trips. For me it can take hours or days to plan where to go - an app like this would solve this. Plus it often means I revisit the same places, harder to find new spots.

There's also plenty of people with stock cars that are trying to get off the beaten track so are looking for info on where they can go without massive tyres, lockers, etc - is this an issue in the states?

Also distances are massive here so not getting through a blocked road can mean you're stuck for another day.

Generally do you guys tow your rigs in, do a loop then go out the same way? Or do you sometimes pass straight through a forest and come out the other side?
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Old 03-28-2019, 09:36 PM   #12 (permalink)
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what is your background in our 4x4 lifestyle?

some of your questions are kinda simple minded.. things you should already know, if you really want to start up a business..

"Problems I have are, when I'm looking for a challenge the tracks I arrive at may be dry, too easy, or recently repaired by the state. When I'm trying to just pass through an area the trails can be impassable for my car."

why would the state/government repair something that is worthy of being called a trail? and why are you driving your car around on trails? does car mean badass4x4? or are you really offroading in a car?


if you knew what you were talkin about, I think some people might be interested in your venture..
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Old 03-28-2019, 09:56 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Do you ever know when to stfu?

Hes an aus. Thers 2500 miles of dirt road between the east and west cosat of aus. It IS the high way alot of places.
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Old 03-29-2019, 01:15 AM   #14 (permalink)
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what is your background in our 4x4 lifestyle?

some of your questions are kinda simple minded.. things you should already know, if you really want to start up a business..

"Problems I have are, when I'm looking for a challenge the tracks I arrive at may be dry, too easy, or recently repaired by the state. When I'm trying to just pass through an area the trails can be impassable for my car."

why would the state/government repair something that is worthy of being called a trail? and why are you driving your car around on trails? does car mean badass4x4? or are you really off-roading in a car?


if you knew what you were talkin about, I think some people might be interested in your venture..

Fair point - I live in Australia so I don't know as much about wheeling in the states, thats why I ask. I have a Nissan Patrol 4.2 turbo diesel, locker, 33" muddies which gets me to most places.

Most trails we visit are on public land and they are maintained periodically.
Does this not happen in the states? It is always private OHV parks?

Its probably easiest to just show you what I'm building - Google my username to check it as I cant add a link. Clink on the link on the website to access the map. All the info there, including trail difficulty, has been generated automatically by analyzing trip logs from my users. I've assessed over 2.5k+ tracks so far across Oz.

Check it out - I'd be keen to hear feedback.
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Old 03-29-2019, 01:16 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Do you ever know when to stfu?

Hes an aus. Thers 2500 miles of dirt road between the east and west cosat of aus. It IS the high way alot of places.
Pretty much yes
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Old 03-29-2019, 04:36 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Rich fuckwit from a Jeep club checking in.

A number of these Apps already exist. For example: https://www.offroadtrailguide.com/

The form of access varies significantly throughout the US. The Western states in particular have large swaths of public land that is open for OHV access. In other areas of the country access to public land is more limited and privately-operated off road parks provide access. In New England there are very few 4x4 trails on public land (two to be precise but this will change), private off road parks are few, and most of the legal access is through non-profit clubs that have worked out arrangements with private land owners to host club wheeling events. Some clubs even said fawk it and bought their own land for use by members.

I'd say that the sweet spot for a 4x4 app would be trails on public land and open-to-the-public for-profit off road parks. Other private properties not so much. At least one of our private properties here in New England ended up listed on one of these apps and the landowner was not particularly pleased when a bunch of disrespecting douche bags started trespassing.
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Old 03-29-2019, 06:01 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Rich fuckwit from a Jeep club checking in.

A number of these Apps already exist. For example:

The form of access varies significantly throughout the US. The Western states in particular have large swaths of public land that is open for OHV access. In other areas of the country access to public land is more limited and privately-operated off road parks provide access. In New England there are very few 4x4 trails on public land (two to be precise but this will change), private off road parks are few, and most of the legal access is through non-profit clubs that have worked out arrangements with private land owners to host club wheeling events. Some clubs even said fawk it and bought their own land for use by members.

I'd say that the sweet spot for a 4x4 app would be trails on public land and open-to-the-public for-profit off road parks. Other private properties not so much. At least one of our private properties here in New England ended up listed on one of these apps and the landowner was not particularly pleased when a bunch of disrespecting douche bags started trespassing.
Thanks for the great info. This is pretty much in-line with my understanding and to be honest similar to here in Aus, depending on where you are. I've been checking out Offroad Trail Guide and I like it - lots of info on trails (more than I'm showing on my map currently). When I got my hands on the app I found downloading maps for offline use was annoying as you had to select a specific area, couldn't select a whole state or region. Im keen to avoid this. Also they seem to rely on user generated content, which is difficult to sustain without an active user base adding info. Our offering would be updated passively without much (if any) user input, aiming to be more "real-time".

Do many people use the Offroad Trail Guide product? There seems to be another called Trails Offroad, which I can't find an app for.

Pros and cons of these apps?

Given the current state of affairs with driving off-road as you mention, I agree the sweet spot for such an app would be trails on public land or private parks.
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Old 03-29-2019, 06:44 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I only wheel on private land. Most off roading in my region of the US is illegal. Public lands out west are still free use. But here in Arkansas, it is 100%, get your rig impounded and pay 5 figure fine for getting caught off roading on National Park land in your rock crawler.

I love the idea. But execution in the US might have a whole lot of negative consequences.
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