Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum - Reply to Topic
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > Brand Specific Tech > Ford > Best Ford engine for 700hp turbo setup?
Notices

Thread: Best Ford engine for 700hp turbo setup? Reply to Thread
Title:
  
Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

** A VERIFICATION EMAIL IS SENT TO THIS ADDRESS TO COMPLETE REGISTRATION!! **

Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Topic Review (Newest First)
11-13-2016 02:48 PM
cslimfu I just started pricing parts 2 months ago for a build I want to start. In talking to a few builders around, I was told with a A block and at 598" they could build a complete engine that would make 750 horse(broke in and ran on a dyno with a sheet) for 12k. And yes, I know a A block isn't needed and is a extra $2500, but that's on me wanting durability because I break everything I touch like it's my job. I was reassured it would be a mild pump gas streetable engine. RHP and butch stetson were who I talked to, so not just some guy.
11-13-2016 02:08 PM
Skinny Pedal Racing If I'm not mistaken, the 15' 5.0 going forward from Ford have a forged bottom end. That's for the Mustang and f150. Should be able to get in the 700 range without a lot of extra work.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
11-12-2016 07:18 PM
TrikeKid
Quote:
Originally Posted by bad-attitude View Post
sounds like you and your buddy have the cart before the horse. why turbo a gasser? do you know the complications it causes and the different characteristics the engine will take on with that>?. if he wants 700hp call an engine builder and get a 12:1:0 compression stroker big block that runs on race fuel.

or go the extra mile and just buy a 540 merlin 3
Do you have any idea how much more of a pain to deal with and high strung a 12:1, race gas BBF is going to be vs one with a properly sized turbo and a little boost? A mild turbo setup is just that, mild.
11-12-2016 05:13 PM
Dr.Danger
Quote:
Originally Posted by bad-attitude View Post
sounds like you and your buddy have the cart before the horse. why turbo a gasser? do you know the complications it causes and the different characteristics the engine will take on with that>?. if he wants 700hp call an engine builder and get a 12:1:0 compression stroker big block that runs on race fuel.

or go the extra mile and just buy a 540 merlin 3
This is the most retarded thing you've said yet, and you're only 4 posts in. Keep going champ.
11-12-2016 04:28 PM
bad-attitude sounds like you and your buddy have the cart before the horse. why turbo a gasser? do you know the complications it causes and the different characteristics the engine will take on with that>?. if he wants 700hp call an engine builder and get a 12:1:0 compression stroker big block that runs on race fuel.

or go the extra mile and just buy a 540 merlin 3
05-14-2016 11:52 AM
Dr.Danger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredy_C View Post
If you are serious about using a Ford go read on either 460ford.com or 429-460.com. Tons of big horsepower builds on both
Just like to point out that the chart is a little outdated. They last updated it in 2009, but it is a good starting point.

I'd also like to point out to the small block guys, that a BBF does not need an aftermarket block, crank, or even 4 bolt mains at this power level. You can't keep the cost competitive going to an aftermarket block and crank.
05-14-2016 10:11 AM
Fredy_C If you are serious about using a Ford go read on either 460ford.com or 429-460.com. Tons of big horsepower builds on both

BIG BLOCK FORD HORSEPOWER CHART INFO gathered by DJOHAGIN

Quote:
Back
BIG BLOCK FORD HORSEPOWER CHART INFO gathered by DJOHAGIN


by Admin on August 6th 2009, 2:05 pm
Foreword

Before diving into the horsepower charts, a few items need to be clarified first. This is for 460 Ford motors with 4.36-4.44-inch bores and 3.85-inch stroke. These charts are for new members, either just getting into engines or coming from a different motor and wanting to know the particulars about building a 460, and for seasoned Ford 460 users wanting to know how to attain a certain horsepower from their combo. It is not a pump gas only list. It is designed to give the best overall performance for a given hp range.

A brief note on detonation. If you build a motor to the ragged edge of pump gas, and it detonates, you lose horsepower and you will harm the motor. It is better to sacrifice a little power (4% per point) and use less compression. If you are determined to use high compression, use race gas. It is cheaper in the long run than to harm your engine with detonation. Octane requirements have been noted in the builds.

Basic Suggestions

The intake system

It can not be stressed enough how important the carburetor is to the build. It will determine how the vehicle runs, not only at WOT, but at all the other speeds as well. A box stock Holley Double Pumper (DP) is set from the factory rich. People often complain of poor gas mileage from the DPs because they use them on their street vehicles straight out of the box. The idle and cruising circuits are very rich, and it takes a professional carburetor tuner to get the DPs set-up properly for the street. Not only for street use, but racing use also needs the carburetor to be set-up properly. The money spent on a professional carburetor tuner pays for itself, especially with the price of gas nowadays.

Cylinder heads

This is the area where you will have, or have not, the horsepower you’re seeking.

A good thread for information on the cylinder heads used in these build-ups and other heads can be found here:

http://460ford.com/viewtopic.php?t=18321

At every horsepower level, the cylinder head should be purchased from a professional cylinder head shop/porter. There is power to be found in doing a correct valve job even at the lowest of hp levels.

Furthermore, the TFS heads and P51 are mass produced items. A professional can get them "dialed-in". Do not think because you paid X amount of dollars that the head is perfect. Sometimes, not always, they need a little touching up for them to flow like they should out of the box, a lap job for the valve seal, etc.

Shortblock updated info

A word on basic machining. The basic part recommendations in each horsepower level increases as rpm rises. It is rpm, and not horsepower that requires the better parts. The time spent at the higher rpms also affects part selection. When in doubt, it never hurts to upgrade parts. The parts suggested at each build level will be able handle the rpm with good machining.

Good machining starts with making sure all parts are sound. All steel parts should be magnaflux crack tested, and all aluminum parts with zyglo. Every part should be checked, even new parts, to make sure they have correct measurements. If you find measurements to be off, have them corrected. Even though machining in it itself does not add a significant amount of power between the best job and a poor job, the life of the engine can be affected greatly. The higher the rpm, the more critical and costly the machining becomes, due to the machinist having to mock up multiple times, setting up his equipment to get the machining “spot on”, and checking and rechecking engine measurements. Be aware also that aftermarket “race” components often require “fitting” to make them work. They typically do not just bolt-on.

On 400 to 550 hp builds, it is prudent to find a good machinist/engine builder. Past the 550 hp mark, it is best not only to find a good machinist/engine builder, but one who is familiar with building 460s. There are minor things that can make or break the combo beyond 550 hp.

The stock crank, 2-bolt mains, and factory bolts are good to the 675-700 horsepower build which after the block should be 4-bolted. It is rpm again, for the need to 4-bolt. Anytime rpm exceeds 7500 rpm, aluminum rods should be considered, as cap walk starts to show up after that rpm with steel rods.

Paul Kane’s website on oiling mods:

www.highflowdynamics.com/

Quench

There is more power than just raising the compression by using quench. Here is a quote from Scott Johnson and Paul Kane on the subject of the importance of quench and engine performance. In all the engine builds, this is factored in.

“Quench is the distance between the flat portion of the cylinder head deck and the top of the piston. The early BBF's set the piston about .010" below deck at TDC. Combined with a head gasket of about .040" thick this made for a quench distance of about .050". The later 460's set the piston even further below deck at TDC to further reduce static C/R with a resulting quench distance of some.065" which is really marginal.

The reason quench is important? As the piston approaches TDC the air fuel mixture in that area is violently forced into the chamber proper and serves to: rehomogenize the mixture in the chamber and cool the chamber resulting in greater detonation tolerance for a given static compression ratio. The name is derived from the fact that the small crevice area there serves to quench the flame front.

A quench distance greater than .060" loses much of the effectiveness of the design. I set most of my combos at Deck height for higher RPM use and about set the piston about .005" out of the hole for lower RPM use. Tight quench makes more torque for a given static C/R plain and simple. 7 to 10 pound feet for every .010" you close the quench distance is nothing to sneeze at.

Remember that at speed the piston and con rod stretch and the actual running distance is even closer. The higher the rpm window of operation the greater the amount of stretch. The trick is to have the piston almost kissing the head at max RPM so that the violent shock wave imparts a lot of additional mixture motion in the chamber when the flame front is in its early stages. Tight quench combos have faster mean flame front rates than non quench combos and need less ignition timing to make best power.

This is the reason I avoid using Sealed-Power pistons, or any piston for that matter, that has a short compression height which leaves the piston sometimes as much as .035" down the hole at TDC in the later blocks.”

“Just want to add that the quench area of the combustion chamber must be tight clearanced enough (as outlined above) so that the negligible air/fuel mixture does not ignite in this area.

When the quench distance is inadequate/too far open, the air/fuel mixture ignites in this area....hence, NO QUENCH.”

Exhaust system

It is important to use a free flowing muffler in all the builds. Flow- Masters do not flow enough. Any muffler were you can pick it up and look thru it, without barbs or such protruding into the airflow will be a good flowing one. If noise is a concern, then a termination box should be built and then mufflers. You are striving for no back pressure.

Adding a stroker kit

Some have asked about a horsepower chart for stroker kits. Some of the most common are:

4.39 bore x 4.15 stroke = 502 cubic inches

4.39 bore x 4.3 stroke = 520 cubic inches

4.39 bore x 4.5 stroke = 545 cubic inches

By adding a stroker crankshaft, the following occurs:

1) For every 50 cubic inches added, the rpm at which torque and horsepower peak at will drop about 600 rpm. So, if your 460 horsepower peaks at 6000 rpm, a 545 will peak at 5000 rpm. This assumes not changing anything else in the engine combo.

2) If you wish to maintain the same horsepower and torque peaks when you increase the stroke, you need to add between 12 to 16 degrees of additional intake duration for every 50 cubic inches added in displacement. Respectively, exhaust will have to be increased also.

3) The amount of torque below the torque peak, and at peak, will increase. This is a good thing, especially for street cars.

4) The larger the engine, the faster it will pull rpm. The weight of the rotating assembly is almost the same on all strokes, from a 460 to the 545 assembly, but as you increase the stroke, the engine now has more displacement pushing that assembly.

5) If you keep the same cylinder heads on the larger motor, you need to add overlap by using a tighter lobe separation, usually 1 to 2 degrees for every additional 50 cubic inches, until you get to 270 degrees @ .050" lift. Above 270 @ .050" duration, you need to bring lobe separation wider to limit overlap that is inherent after that duration. BSFC numbers go up needlessly with too much overlap.

The tighter lobe separation angle adds the necessary overlap to feed the additional inches, however, it does close the intake valve earlier. The horsepower peak numbers will be similar, but will occur at a slightly lower rpm with the tighter LSA. It is usually good not to advance the cam as much as usual.

If your compression ratio is "on the edge" running on pump gas, it may be inapproopriate to tighten the LSA because it increases lower rpm cylinder pressures. The tight LSA adds low and mid range torque because of the lower end cylinder pressures, but may not be needed if the vehicle combo is traction limited. As an example, a street vechicle only running on street tires.

6) Peak horsepower will increase slightly.


Special Note

In regards to this chart, for every listed horsepower level, there is at least 10 different combos to get that same power. The builds outlined will get you the horsepower listed, but they are not the only way. Every individual's combo requires its own unique build. Some combos may need a lower profile manifold, some solid lifter cam only, and/or it needs certain parts to qualify for a specific class.

There are only 4 different cylinder heads shown for all these builds. There are other cylinder heads that can be used for each horsepower level, and in some cases preferred, once a person learns/knows what the other heads specifications are. This link: http://460ford.com/viewtopic.php?t=18321 will help you to learn about the other cylinder heads available.

In conclusion, this chart cannot be everything to everyone. Think of this chart as just as a guide-line to get you started in the right direction.


Now for the builds:


Last edited by Admin on August 7th 2009, 10:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
by Admin on August 6th 2009, 2:07 pm
275-300HP 460ci

Intake System:

Holley 600-750 vacuum secondary
Edelbrock Performer (non-RPM) Intake Manifold

Cylinder Heads:

Heads can be D0VE or D3VE
(No Port work. Just good 3 angle valve job.)
Intake valve size 2.08
Exhaust valve size 1.65
Stock rockers.

Short Block:

Comp Cam Custom Spec Hydraulic flat tappet cam or equivalent
Based on the Xtreme Energy Hydraulic Series
Intake Lobe 5437 and Exhaust Lobe 5430
(Specs:240/250 adv., 196/[email protected], .476/.479 lift, 112 LSA)
Compression around 8.0:1
Stock crank
Stock rods
Standard volume oil pump
Stock oil pan

Exhaust:

Passenger cast-iron manifolds to dual 2.25" pipes with H-pipe. Good flowing 2.5" Magnaflow mufflers or equivalent.

Summary:

87-octane. Horsepower peak at 4,100 rpm. Keep redline to 5000 rpm.
by Admin on August 6th 2009, 2:08 pm
300-325HP 460ci

Intake System:

Holley 750 vacuum secondary
Edelbrock Performer (non-Rpm) Intake Manifold

Cylinder Heads:

Heads can be D0VE or D3VE with mild port job
(315-ish/180-ish cfm @.600)
Intake valve size 2.08
Exhaust valve size 1.65
Stock rockers.

Short Block:

Comp Cam Custom Spec Hydraulic flat tappet cam or equivalent
Based on the Xtreme Energy Hydraulic Series
Intake Lobe 5430 and Exhaust Lobe 5232
(Specs:250/268 adv., 206/[email protected], .479/.493. lift, 112 LSA)
Compression around 9.0:1
Stock crank
Stock rods
Standard volume oil pump
Stock oil pan

Exhaust:

Passenger cast-iron manifolds to dual 2.25" pipes with H-pipe. Good flowing 2.5" Magnaflow mufflers or equivalent.

Summary:

91 octane. Horsepower peak at 4,500 rpm. Keep redline to 5500 rpm.

325-350HP 460ci

Intake System:

Holley 750 vacuum secondary
Edelbrock Performer (non-Rpm) Intake Manifold

Cylinder Heads:

Heads can be D0VE or D3VE with mild port job
(315-ish/180-ish cfm @.600)
Intake valve size 2.08
Exhaust valve size 1.65
Stock rockers

Short Block:

Comp Cam Custom Spec Hydraulic flat tappet cam or equivalent
Based on the Xtreme Energy Hydraulic Series
Intake Lobe 5430 and Exhaust Lobe 5232
(Specs:250/268 adv., 206/[email protected], .479/.493. lift, 110 LSA)
Compression around 9.0:1
Stock crank
Stock rods
Standard volume oil pump
Stock oil pan

Exhaust:

1.75" headers to dual 2.5" pipes with H-pipe. Good flowing 2.5" Magnaflow mufflers or equivalent.

Summary:

91 octane. Horsepower peak at 4,500 rpm. Keep redline to 5500 rpm.

350-375HP 460ci

Intake System:

Holley 750 vacuum secondary
Edelbrock Performer Rpm Intake Manifold

Cylinder Heads:

Heads can be D0VE or D3VE with mild port job
(315-ish/180-ish cfm @.600)
Intake valve size 2.08
Exhaust valve size 1.65
Stock rockers.

Short Block:

Comp Cam Custom Spec Hydraulic flat tappet cam or equivalent
Based on the Xtreme Energy Hydraulic Series
Intake Lobe 5430 and Exhaust Lobe 5232
(Specs:250/268 adv., 206/[email protected], .479/.493. lift, 110 LSA)
Compression around 9.0:1
Stock crank
Stock rods
Standard volume oil pump
Stock oil pan

Exhaust:

1.75" headers to dual 2.5" pipes with H-pipe. Good flowing 2.5" Magnaflow mufflers or equivalent.

Summary:

91 octane. Keep redline to 5500 rpm.

375-400HP 460ci

Intake System:

Holley 750 vacuum secondary
Edelbrock Performer Rpm Intake Manifold

Cylinder Heads:

Heads can be D0VE or D3VE with mild port job and port match
(315-ish/180-ish cfm @.600)
Intake valve size 2.08
Exhaust valve size 1.65
Stock rockers.

Short Block:

Comp Cam XE262H Hydraulic flat tappet cam or equivalent
(Specs:262/270 adv., 218/[email protected], .513/.520, 110 LSA)
Compression around 9:0:1
Stock crank
Stock rods with good bolts
Standard volume oil pump
Stock oil pan with windage tray

Exhaust:

1.75" headers to dual 2.5" pipes with H-pipe. Good flowing 2.5" Magnaflow mufflers or equivalent.

Summary:

91-octane. Keep redline to 6000 rpm.

400-425HP 460ci

Intake System:

750cfm Holley DP professionally calibrated for your application
Edelbrock Performer Rpm Intake Manifold

Cylinder Heads:

D0VE heads with mild port job and chambers polished
(315ish/180-ish cfm flow @.600)
Intake valve size 2.08
Exhaust valve size 1.65
Stock rockers.

Short Block:

Comp Cam XE262H Hydraulic flat tappet cam or equivalent
(Specs:262/270 adv., 218/[email protected], .513/.520, 110 LSA)
Compression around 9.5:1
Stock crank
Stock rods with good bolts
Standard volume oil pump
Stock oil pan with windage tray

Exhaust:

1 7/8" headers to dual 2.5" pipes with H-pipe. Good flowing 2.5" Magnaflow mufflers or equivalent.

Summary:

91-octane. Keep redline to 6000 rpm.
by Admin on August 6th 2009, 2:08 pm
425-450HP 460ci

Intake System:

750cfm Holley DP professionally calibrated for your application
Edelbrock Performer Rpm Intake Manifold

Cylinder Heads:

D0VE head with mild port job, chambers polished, and port match
(315-ish/180-ish cfm @.600)
Intake valve size 2.08
Exhaust valve size 1.65
Roller rockers.

Short Block:

Comp Cam Custom Spec Hydraulic flat tappet cam or equivalent
Based on the Xtreme Energy Hydraulic Series
Intake Lobe 5443 and Exhaust Lobe 5203
(Specs:268/280 adv., 224/[email protected], .524/.544 lift, 110 LSA)
Compression around 9.5:1
Stock crank
Stock rods with good bolts
Standard volume oil pump
Stock oil pan with windage tray

Exhaust:

1 7/8" headers to dual 2.5" pipes with H-pipe. Good flowing 2.5" Magnaflow mufflers or equivalent.

Summary:

91-octane. Keep redline to 6000 rpm.

450-475HP 460ci

Intake System:

750cfm Holley DP professionally calibrated for your application
Edelbrock Performer Rpm Intake Manifold

Cylinder Heads:

D0VE head with mild port job, chambers polished and port match
(315-ish/180-ish cfm @.600)
Intake valve size 2.08
Exhaust valve size 1.65
Roller rockers.

Short Block:

Comp Cam XE274H Hydraulic flat tappet cam or equivalent
(Specs:274/286 adv., 230/[email protected], .562/.565, 110 LSA)
Compression around 9.5:1
Stock crank
Eagle I-beam rods
High volume oil pump
Deepened oil pan with windage tray

Exhaust:

1 7/8" headers to dual 2.5" pipes with H-pipe. Good flowing 2.5" Magnaflow mufflers or equivalent.

Summary:

91-octane. Keep redline to 6500 rpm.

475-500HP 460ci

Intake System:

750cfm Holley DP Carb professionally calibrated for your application
Edelbrock Performer Rpm Intake Manifold

Cylinder Heads:

D0VE heads with larger valves, port job, chambers polished and port match
(330-ish/190-ish cfm flow @.600)
Intake valve size increased to 2.19
Exhaust valve size increased to 1.76
Roller rockers.

Short Block:

Comp Cam XE274H Hydraulic flat tappet cam or equivalent
(Specs:274/286 adv., 230/[email protected], .562/.565, 110 LSA)
Compression at 9.8:1
Stock crank
Eagle I-beam rods
High volume oil pump
Deepened oil pan with windage tray

Exhaust:

1 7/8" headers to dual 3" pipes with H-pipe. Good flowing 3" Magnaflow mufflers or equivalent.

Summary:

91 octane. Keep redline to 6500 rpm.

500-525HP 460ci

Intake System:

750cfm Holley DP Carb professionally calibrated for your application
Edelbrock Performer Rpm Intake Manifold

Cylinder Heads:

TFS street heads with mild clean-up
Roller rockers.

Short Block:

Comp Cam XE274H Hydraulic flat tappet cam or equivalent
(Specs:274/286 adv., 230/[email protected], .562/.565, 110 LSA)
Compression around 10.0:1
Stock crank
Eagle I-beam rods
High volume oil pump
Deepened oil pan with windage tray

Exhaust:

1 7/8" headers to dual 3" pipes with H-pipe. Good flowing 3" Magnaflow mufflers or equivalent.

Summary:

91-octane. Keep redline to 6500 rpm.

525-550HP 460ci

Intake System:

850cfm Holley DP Carb professionally calibrated for your application
Edelbrock Performer Rpm Intake Manifold

Cylinder Heads:

TFS street heads with mild clean-up
Roller rockers.

Short Block:

Comp Cam XE284H Hydraulic flat tappet cam or equivalent
(Specs:284/296 adv., 240/[email protected], .584/.588, 110 LSA)
Compression around 10.0:1
Stock crank
Eagle I-beam
High volume oil pump
Deepened oil pan with windage tray

Exhaust:

1 7/8" headers to dual 3" pipes with H-pipe. Good flowing 3" Magnaflow mufflers or equivalent.

Summary:

91-octane. Keep redline to 6500 rpm.

550-575HP 460ci

Intake System:

950cfm Holley DP Carb professionally calibrated for your application
Weiand Stealth Standard Port Intake Manifold

Cylinder Heads:

TFS street heads with mild clean-up and chambers polished
Roller rockers.

Short Block:

Comp Cam 34-652-5 solid flat tappet cam or equivalent
(Specs:294/304 adv., 256/[email protected], .589/.615, 108 LSA)
Compression around 10.5:1
Stock crank
Scat H-beam rods
Block oiling mods
High volume oil pump
Deepened oil pan with windage tray

Exhaust:

1 7/8" headers to dual 3" pipes with H-pipe. Good flowing 3" Magnaflow mufflers or equivalent.

Summary:

91-octane. Keep redline to 7000 rpm.
by Admin on August 6th 2009, 2:09 pm
575-600HP 460ci

Intake System:

950cfm Holley DP Carb professionally calibrated for your application
Edelbrock 4150 Victor Intake ported

Cylinder Heads:

TFS street heads with mild clean-up and Victor port match
Roller rockers.
Stud girdle.

Short Block:

Comp Cam XR280R-10 solid roller street cam
(Specs: 280/286 adv., 242/[email protected], .657/.664 lift, 110 LSA)
Compression around 12.0:1
Stock crank
Scat H-beam rods
Block oiling mods
High volume oil pump
Deepened oil pan with windage tray

Exhaust:

1 7/8" headers to dual 3" pipes with H-pipe. Good flowing 3" Magnaflow mufflers or equivalent.

Summary:

100-octane. Horsepower peak at 6,000 rpm. Keep redline to 7000 rpm.

600-625HP 460ci

Intake System:

1050 cfm Holley Dominator Carb professionally calibrated for your application
Edelbrock Dominator Victor Intake ported

Cylinder Heads:

TFS street heads with mild clean-up Victor port match
Roller rockers.
Stud girdle.

Short Block:

Comp Cam XR286R-10 solid roller street cam
(Specs: 286/292 adv., 248/[email protected], .664/.671 lift, 110 LSA)
Compression around 12.0:1
Stock crank
Scat H-beam rods
Block oiling mods
High volume oil pump
Deepened oil pan with windage tray

Exhaust:

1 7/8" headers to dual 3" pipes with H-pipe. Good flowing 3" Magnaflow mufflers or equivalent.

Summary:

100-octane. Horsepower peak at 6,200 rpm. Keep redline to 7000 rpm.

625-650HP 460ci

Intake System:

1050cfm Holley Dominator Carb professionally calibrated for your application
Edelbrock Victor Dominator Intake ported

Cylinder Heads:

TFS street heads with mild clean-up with Victor port match.
Roller rockers.
Stud girdle.

Short Block:

Comp Cam XR292R-10 solid roller street cam
(Specs: 292/298 adv., 254/[email protected], .671/.678 lift, 110 LSA)
Compression around 12.0:1
Stock crank
Scat H-beam rods with upgraded bolts
Block oiling mods
High volume oil pump
Deepened oil pan with windage tray

Exhaust:

1 7/8" headers to dual 3" pipes with H-pipe. Good flowing 3" Magnaflow mufflers or equivalent.

Summary:

100-octane. Horsepower peak at 6,500 rpm. Keep redline to 7200 rpm.

650-675HP 460ci

Intake System:

1150cfm Holley Dominator Carb professionally calibrated for your application
Edelbrock Victor Dominator Intake ported

Cylinder Heads:

TFS street heads with port job and Victor port match
Roller rockers.
Stud girdle.

Short Block:

Comp Cam custom spec solid roller cam or equivalent
Xtreme Energy Street Rollers on intake and CR Series Rollers on Exhaust
Lobe 4879 on intake and Lobe 4682 on exhaust
(Specs:310/311 adv., 272/[email protected], .698/.683 lift, 110 LSA)
Compression around 12.0:1
Stock crank
Scat H-beam rods with upgraded bolts
Block oiling mods
High volume oil pump
Deepened and fully baffled oil pan with windage tray

Exhaust:

1 7/8" headers to dual 3" pipes with H-pipe. Good flowing 3" Magnaflow mufflers or equivalent.

Summary:

100-octane. Horsepower peak at 6,700 rpm. Keep redline to 7200 rpm.

675-700HP 460ci

Intake System:

1150cfm Holley Dominator Carb professionally calibrated for your application
Edelbrock Victor Dominator Intake ported

Cylinder Heads:

Kaase P51 heads with mild clean-up
Roller rockers.
Stud girdle.

Short Block:

Comp Cam Custom Spec solid roller cam or equivalent
Based on the High Torque .440 for intake and RT Series for exhaust
Intake Lobe 4240 and Exhaust Lobe 5203
(Specs:284/292 adv., 256/[email protected], .761/.743 lift, 108 LSA)
Compression around 12.0:1
Stock crank
Scat H-beam rods with upgraded bolts
Block oiling mods
High volume oil pump
Deepened and fully baffled oil pan with windage tray

Exhaust:

2 1/8" headers to dual 3" pipes with H-pipe. Good flowing 3" Magnaflow mufflers or equivalent.

Summary:

100-octane. Horsepower peak at 6,700 rpm. Keep redline to 7200 rpm.

700-725HP 460ci

Intake System:

1250cfm Holley Dominator Carb professionally calibrated for your application
Edelbrock Victor Dominator Intake ported

Cylinder Heads:

Kaase P51 heads with port job
Roller rockers.
Stud girdle.

Short Block:

Comp Cam Custom Spec solid roller cam or equivalent
Based on the High Torque .440 for intake and RT Series for exhaust
Intake Lobe 4241 and Exhaust Lobe 4135
(Specs:288/298 adv., 260/[email protected], .761/.753 lift, 108 LSA)
Compression around 12.0:1
Stock crank with aero and lightening mods
Scat H-beam rods with upgraded rod bolts
Block oiling mods
Block 4-bolted on center 3 caps
High volume oil pump
Deepened and fully baffled oil pan with windage tray

Exhaust:

2 1/8" headers to dual 3.5" pipes with H-pipe. Good flowing 3.5" Magnaflow mufflers or equivalent.

Summary:

100-octane. Keep redline to 7500 rpm.
05-13-2016 10:54 PM
Alcatraz My uncle is building a 427in stroker Windsor that will make ~625hp, ~550tq and it's a street engine. While he's using an aluminum block, gun drilled crank, and lightweight rods, he's doing so because it's going into his road race Mustang. Since I'm assuming (perhaps wrongly) that your friend wants it going in a truck then weight isn't as big an issue. With a turbo you could run a Dart Sportsman block ($3000), forged rotating assembly (~$2000), AFR 225 heads out of the box (~$1600). If you can find an A9L ECU and use a stripped Mustang harness you'll simply need to find a shop to reprogram it for you. They've been hacked for years now and any competent tuner should be able to get you dialed in. Call Comp Cams, tell them what you're doing, and then run whatever cam they tell you.

I'm assuming (because we're on pirate4x4 and not corral) that this is going in something that will be used offroad. If so, I'd want fuel injection. I'd run something like a Edelbrock Victor Jr (for a carb) that has the bosses drilled for the injectors. You're going to be right at the edge for what a stock-style injector will accomplish, and if you end up having to run low impedance injectors the price goes up quick. 55lb or 60lb injectors will likely be necessary Run a 90* elbow, 75 or 80mm throttle body and a 90mm+ mass air meter. Under hood space will determine whether you run a single or twin turbos. If single I'd go with something in the 77mm range. Pick a supplier, call them up, and let them tell you which wheel you need. If twins I'd look at a couple of hot T4s.

Having said all of that, I'd talk to my friend and let him know that for a lot less money and headache he could have 600hp, reliable and streetable. Then add a 150hp wet nitrous kit and he's past where he wants to be, when he really needs it. Another thing to think of is this: at that power level he's going to need a built 4R100 (or similar), which is another big chunk of cash. Then (once again, assuming it's going offroad) the very first time he gets in a bind and mashes the stupid pedal something is going to break. Could be transfer case, could be an axle. Doesn't matter. I've seen mild 514in motors break a 9in Ford carrier (ripped the pinion gear and bearing right out of it).
05-13-2016 10:49 PM
Alcatraz My uncle is building a 427in stroker Windsor that will make ~625hp, ~550tq and it's a street engine. While he's using an aluminum block, gun drilled crank, and lightweight rods, he's doing so because it's going into his road race Mustang. Since I'm assuming (perhaps wrongly) that your friend wants it going in a truck then weight isn't as big an issue. With a turbo you could run a Dart Sportsman block ($3000), forged rotating assembly (~$2000), AFR 225 heads out of the box (~$1600). If you can find an A9L ECU and use a stripped Mustang harness you'll simply need to find a shop to reprogram it for you. They've been hacked for years now and any competent tuner should be able to get you dialed in. Call Comp Cams, tell them what you're doing, and then run whatever cam they tell you.

I'm assuming (because we're on pirate4x4 and not corral) that this is going in something that will be used offroad. If so, I'd want fuel injection. I'd run something like a Edelbrock Victor Jr (for a carb) that has the bosses drilled for the injectors. You're going to be right at the edge for what a stock-style injector will accomplish, and if you end up having to run low impedance injectors the price goes up quick. 55lb or 60lb injectors will likely be necessary Run a 90* elbow, 75 or 80mm throttle body and a 90mm+ mass air meter. Under hood space will determine whether you run a single or twin turbos. If single I'd go with something in the 77mm range. Pick a supplier, call them up, and let them tell you which wheel you need. If twins I'd look at a couple of hot T4s.

Having said all of that, I'd talk to my friend and let him know that for a lot less money and headache he could have 600hp, reliable and streetable. Then add a 150hp wet nitrous kit and he's past where he wants to be, when he really needs it. Another thing to think of is this: at that power level he's going to need a built 4R100 (or similar), which is another big chunk of cash. Then (once again, assuming it's going offroad) the very first time he gets in a bind and mashes the stupid pedal something is going to break. Could be transfer case, could be an axle. Doesn't matter. I've seen mild 514in motors break a 9in Ford carrier (ripped the pinion gear and bearing right out of it).
05-10-2016 09:15 PM
bobbywalter reliable 700 hp sbf....dart block 408 sounds best to me.


bbf....used take outs from the race boat world is a suggestion i can agree with all the way as far as being cost effective..


as to the cammers. they are winning around here finally on the street. but still take deep pockets. but really are an option at reasonable costs for 500 hp range...700 wont be cheap.,.

on current pricing if someone approached me to do one in a project, i could attempt a junkyard 150 package and goal to keep it under 12 k tuned, based on what these guys got going around here.

they are definitely coming into their own.

but until i actually do one, its only a guess.


but for a guy that only deals with diesels and gm gassers, the dart 408 would be the easy button with proper construction etiquette.
05-10-2016 02:18 PM
FORDTECHGURU my thing is bbf's are wide and typically a pia to fit in a buggy or small vehicle and keep cool. a simple forged piston, scj headed, non stroker, hydraulic cam deal at 12 psi would do it.. I would do a 408 Windsor in a stock block with a set of aluminum heads. keep it out of detonation and under 6500 rpm and it would live just fine.. or, you can pick up a dart blocked 408 for around 5k assembled and top it off..
05-07-2016 12:43 AM
Whitetrash303 Meh. Junkyard 460 and a little boost is all it would take.

05-04-2016 04:04 PM
Mike2.5 A 700 hp turbo sbf would be pretty easy to accomplish. My 461 sbf stroker made 620 hp and 616 lb/ft of torque naturally aspirated on pump gas with a fairly mild cam. A 408 or 427 stroker with turbo and a good set of Trickflow highports would hit 700 no problem.
05-03-2016 10:09 AM
hasteranger Just join the bbf groups, people sell 600 hp boat and drag motors that probably cost $12k to build for $6 or 7 all the time... As said, lower compressions piston aren't gonna break the bank and gives you a good chance to check bearings and etc while it's apart. If I wanted a big power bbf, after building a more moderate build, I'd definitely start with something someone else already built.
05-03-2016 07:47 AM
Dr.Danger
Quote:
Originally Posted by redranger4.0:36623090

I'm an LSx guy that was just the first link I found via google, so I offer no input of the quality of the build. Just figured if they are selling for that price, the OP could build it himself for less.

Absolutely and that was kinda my point. It doesn't take $20K to build a reliable 700 hp BBF when a decent crate engine can be had for $10K. You can save a shit ton building yourself, especially if you either have some of the parts already or buy them used.
05-03-2016 06:17 AM
redranger4.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Danger View Post
You can do better than that guy's price. CarsByCarl Scroll on down to the Ultimate Fighter. The owner happens to be a respected builder in the 460 world.
I'm an LSx guy that was just the first link I found via google, so I offer no input of the quality of the build. Just figured if they are selling for that price, the OP could build it himself for less.
05-02-2016 09:09 PM
Dr.Danger You can do better than that guy's price. CarsByCarl Scroll on down to the Ultimate Fighter. The owner happens to be a respected builder in the 460 world.

Also, note where the torque comes on. This shit will break parts in a hurry.

There are some folks saying that the ProComp Chinese aluminum castings are actually good quality as long as you buy them bare and have someone competent finish them. $700 for some brand new bare castings that mimick the factory D0VE heads would be a great start for at turbo build and easy to port 'cause aluminum. Also have the large chamber option iirc. Might be great for more of a budget ground up turbo build utilizing a stock crankshaft.
05-02-2016 08:44 PM
FlexyTJ Interesting! Cost is roughly the same for that power level especially if you add any goodies. That looks like a nice carb to pan motor, even includes a t-shirt Doesn't mention compression ratio of the included pistons, although I'm ASS-uming it would be pump gas friendly. That would make that power all day, very happy.

They also offer a 750hp SBF but @ $16k :/

Custom Drag Racing Engines & Transmissions | Awesome Engines » 434ci 750HP SBF Bullet Race Engine

So the 15k number I tossed out earlier for a SBF was pretty spot on. An added crux with the SB is it looks like it makes that power with 14:1 pistons, which is firmly race gas only territory. I wish it wasn't so myself (so pricey to do as a small block). I'd like to just toss a SB back in my T-bird rather than commit to the modular swap as I have accessory bracketry, mounts and cross member for that, instead it sits semi indefinitely on jack stands while I ponder what to do next.

The OP should let us know which route he goes.....
05-02-2016 08:39 PM
hasteranger I knew a guy that raced Honda civics when imports were the big thing. I don't know my Hondas, but basically everyone wanted vtec motors because of their superior output, but he would buy the non vtec motors for cheap and he had a massive multistage nitrous and fuel kit he had worked out all his dyno tuning on. He would install a running motor, spray all over it, and it would last a few weekends before it popped. Swap it out for another $100 engine, put the spray back on, and head back to the track.

There are more than a few of the 5.3 builds I've read online that are like that. Only problem if it's gonna be used out in the woods is that an aaa card won't help. But 700 hp won't help much in the woods anyway.

No one has mentioned it but the new 6.2's will apparently hit over 600 at the wheels with a supercharger and minor bolt ons. Guessing that's expensive. But still
05-02-2016 07:48 PM
redranger4.0 Custom Drag Racing Engines & Transmissions | Awesome Engines » 545CI BBF 700HP Pro Street Crate Engine
05-02-2016 07:10 PM
[486]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustange70 View Post
the factory EFI 460's are a special breed. The efi system is a PITA to work with, and the heads use different ports. They will work, but you get kind of stuck to that setup if you go that route. Good for a short block doner though, but I think you can find a stroker short block elsewhere fairly cheap as well.
Aftermarket computer (microsquirt) for fuel and spark, and a (couple?) 71mm borg warner(s) for airflow. Got that much laying around the house or on cars that can come apart. Just gotta buy some decent 120lb injectors, whatever fuel pump the cool kids are running these days, a chinese IC, and a motor to do stupid things to.

It's all surprisingly easy, just need the iron to hold up to it all.
05-02-2016 04:23 PM
Quick & Dirty I had to dig up an old magazine with a mild 460 blower build.
My scanner isn't working so I'll type the essentials.

Mid 70's Lincoln engine, rebuilt, stock crank, stock rods with arp bolts, off-the-shelf TRW 8:1 forged pistons, ported stock heads.
Crower flat tappet hydraulic cam, 270°/290° advertised duration, .480" lift, 110° lobe separation, installed at 106° intake centerline.
6-71 roots supercharger, 6% underdriven for 8 psi boost, dual 750 Holleys.

609 hp at 5600 rpm, 630 ft-lb at 4600 rpm
Made 210 hp and 527 ft-lb at 2100 rpm
05-02-2016 12:17 PM
rtbcoop Good to know. Thanks for all the input. I'll float this info to the man with the money and see what he decides on.
05-02-2016 10:52 AM
FlexyTJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtbcoop View Post
Um, we already established that we have no problem dropping $ on this build so he is more on point than you are!

While I would prefer a junkyard rebuild, I certainly have no problem with a crate or scratch built motor.
The comment was definitely not directed at you, that's why I posted some other options. Nothing wrong at all with rebuilding a motor from the boneyard or from a previous build; that's where most motors come from after all.

I did a little research on my own last night just to double check that things hadn't changed in the now many years I've been away from pushrod motors, and the general consensus I found that was to build any small block based Ford motor reliably to the 700 mark (so that all 700 hp can be used all the time any time without worry) was in the 15k neighborhood (not including the power adder... long block parts + machine shop labor to assemble only). Nitrous, supercharged, turbocharged, whatever... same deal; to keep the block sealed up and keep the rotating assembly in. Then add your favorite power adder on top of that.

The more I think about it low boost 460 based engine is probably the most economical way to hit 700, easy peasy. With a big enough cam, enough compression, and good heads probably can do it naturally aspirated.
05-02-2016 10:36 AM
rtbcoop
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlexyTJ View Post
That idea got shit upside and down the other because we want to pull junkyard motors with stock pistons for $50, slap a $50 turbo on it, run it at a power level within an inch of it mortal life 800!? claimed HP on a stock 302 , melt the pistons out of it/crack the block in 1/2 in less than 5k miles on the combo, then start all over again

So follow along closer noob, that's where we're at
Um, we already established that we have no problem dropping $ on this build so he is more on point than you are!

While I would prefer a junkyard rebuild, I certainly have no problem with a crate or scratch built motor.
This thread has more than 25 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.