Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum - Reply to Topic
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > General Tech > Tow Rigs and Trailers > MCI 102-C3 coach to RV
Notices

Thread: MCI 102-C3 coach to RV Reply to Thread
Title:
  
Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

** A VERIFICATION EMAIL IS SENT TO THIS ADDRESS TO COMPLETE REGISTRATION!! **

Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Topic Review (Newest First)
Today 02:27 PM
JNHEscher
Quote:
Originally Posted by 02rexwi View Post
I use Absolute Supply a lot at work and every now and then for custom parts for myself. They are good about stocking materials and turning around parts in a few days if you're in a rush.
I find their prices have been going up, but they're still very reasonable (for their quality) in my opinion.
I've got other local shops that are cheaper, but their quality and communication are nowhere near as good.
I'll jot them down. Because we'll be highly mobile in the bus, I'd like a good list of go-to places for services such as these so that I'm not throwing money at testing out unknowns.

$225.68 shipped for all four battery cradle plates laser cut from 3/16" hot rolled. I'd spend that much trying to hack them together myself with the plasma and a file. It's on.
Today 05:09 AM
02rexwi
Quote:
Originally Posted by JNHEscher View Post
I sent them a message earlier today. Brian got back to me within an hour. Emailed him my file with specs for a quote. Hopefully its reasonable. I really wanted to support one of the online outfits that support prototyping, one-offs, and single run parts. My experience with email correspondence with other semi-local shops hasn't been the best, but I was ready to do so if SCS didn't come through.

The 1x1 ss tubing shipped out today. This is for filling in a gap on the underside of the front pit framerails where I am lowering the pit floor by 1" to accommodate the diameter of the corny tanks. With the stacks of funding now handy, we're grabbing all the materials to finish up the assemblies that are best built before the floor gets laid down. Trying our best to get the floor closed up to beat the next blizzard. Snow already hit Utah, Colorado, and Wyoming the other day. FML.
I use Absolute Supply a lot at work and every now and then for custom parts for myself. They are good about stocking materials and turning around parts in a few days if you're in a rush.
I find their prices have been going up, but they're still very reasonable (for their quality) in my opinion.
I've got other local shops that are cheaper, but their quality and communication are nowhere near as good.
Yesterday 07:33 PM
JNHEscher
Quote:
Originally Posted by 02rexwi View Post
I know it's probably not as close as you want, but try Absolute Supply in Little Chute, Wisconsin. You'll have to email them a DWG or DXF file with your reference dimensions for scale. They typically quote in a matter of hours with very fair prices. I've never had to have them ship though.
I sent them a message earlier today. Brian got back to me within an hour. Emailed him my file with specs for a quote. Hopefully its reasonable. I really wanted to support one of the online outfits that support prototyping, one-offs, and single run parts. My experience with email correspondence with other semi-local shops hasn't been the best, but I was ready to do so if SCS didn't come through.

The 1x1 ss tubing shipped out today. This is for filling in a gap on the underside of the front pit framerails where I am lowering the pit floor by 1" to accommodate the diameter of the corny tanks. With the stacks of funding now handy, we're grabbing all the materials to finish up the assemblies that are best built before the floor gets laid down. Trying our best to get the floor closed up to beat the next blizzard. Snow already hit Utah, Colorado, and Wyoming the other day. FML.
Yesterday 01:39 PM
02rexwi
Quote:
Originally Posted by JNHEscher View Post
Got my Battle Born battery rack DXF all set to submit and the sendcutsend.com file uploader isn't working at all. I tried a few other online laser cutters and their quote said my piece was too large. It's 8x48. I'll try Send Cut Send some more tomorrow afternoon. Until then, anyone know of another? I was hoping to try out one of these online quotes rather than emailing local shops.
I know it's probably not as close as you want, but try Absolute Supply in Little Chute, Wisconsin. You'll have to email them a DWG or DXF file with your reference dimensions for scale. They typically quote in a matter of hours with very fair prices. I've never had to have them ship though.
Yesterday 02:01 AM
JNHEscher Got my Battle Born battery rack DXF all set to submit and the sendcutsend.com file uploader isn't working at all. I tried a few other online laser cutters and their quote said my piece was too large. It's 8x48. I'll try Send Cut Send some more tomorrow afternoon. Until then, anyone know of another? I was hoping to try out one of these online quotes rather than emailing local shops.
09-14-2019 03:01 AM
JNHEscher
Quote:
Originally Posted by DT75FLH View Post

back to page 1. where are the updates<a href="https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="" >:-)</a>
Thought somebody might ask soon. Updates are on the way. Stuff happened.

Soooo - budget has been stupid tight. Hard to build a home on $300 a month, ya know? I've been working on the house. We talked about a shop some more. Wife got a 30k loan for the shop, but we ditched that after I tallied her finances. Credit card debt is getting paid and we're throwing the rest at the bus so we can get the fawk out of Colorado.

My daily had some problems and they got worse, so I've been busy with that (and upgrading). In the meantime, we bought a mirror image pair of turbos from Nelson Racing Engines that should on their way soon. I'll finally be yanking the junk Garrett and building the manifolds. Bought a couple big drops of stainless sheet to build the water tank pit floor with and I'm waiting on some stainless less 1x1 tubing to ship from fleabay.

I think that sums it up. Pics and schtuff to come.
09-12-2019 09:02 AM
DT75FLH
Quote:
Originally Posted by JNHEscher View Post
Doing just that. I still need to order the other fan blades so that I can do the test run again. Wanted a mock-up to give me a general idea. Dart Controls PWM is supposed to be here today. Shroud clearance is likely to be after everything else is fitted up.

Agree. From front to back, I want to set it up as motors, rads, fans. That way the coolest air will pass over the motors.
back to page 1. where are the updates
08-16-2019 05:01 PM
CarterKaft Here are some pix of a Spartan RV frame with a 605 hp cummins in our truck shop.
To be honest this fan drive seems so simple I can't imagine doing it any other way but it's been so long since I've seen this thread there may be obvious issues.
Sorry the pix blow I guess I had finger prints on the lens...




08-16-2019 04:55 PM
CarterKaft
Quote:
Originally Posted by JNHEscher View Post
These are always set up with rubber gaskets on the ends that get compressed when the end tanks sandwich the cores. I won't be using that as the gaskets are the #1 failure, according to every article I've read on these.
Man I can't really agree with that. The seals are seals and can fail but it's not a normal thing and you are talking about 10-20,000 hours of full load mining operation when they do. I think your use will be much different.
Building normal tanks will be super easy for you and will make mounting etc. easy with robust steel or aluminum tanks for mounting.
08-06-2019 03:45 AM
JNHEscher Not wild about the Dart terminal block. As long as it's a good connection, it works.
08-05-2019 03:50 PM
JNHEscher
Quote:
Originally Posted by Satan's_Minion View Post
You will want to repeat your load testing with the installation as the current draw will likely increase with the pressure load of the air restriction of the heat exchanger. Tip clearance to the shroud is your efficiency so you want that to be good.

Just guessing as no idea on the specs but from my experience I think if you want to run that electric motor you will need to put it on the cold side to keep from overheating it. Most HVAC apps like what it came from are lower temp than engine cooling.

If there is no ram air consideration you are not giving up much with a pusher from a airflow/geometry side. With fixed rpm electric cooling fans most times working on the cold side is best as the fan is volumetric so you end up with a higher mass flow rate. Your setup is not brushless fixed rpm so that does not directly apply.
Doing just that. I still need to order the other fan blades so that I can do the test run again. Wanted a mock-up to give me a general idea. Dart Controls PWM is supposed to be here today. Shroud clearance is likely to be after everything else is fitted up.

Agree. From front to back, I want to set it up as motors, rads, fans. That way the coolest air will pass over the motors.
08-05-2019 08:29 AM
Satan's_Minion You will want to repeat your load testing with the installation as the current draw will likely increase with the pressure load of the air restriction of the heat exchanger. Tip clearance to the shroud is your efficiency so you want that to be good.

Just guessing as no idea on the specs but from my experience I think if you want to run that electric motor you will need to put it on the cold side to keep from overheating it. Most HVAC apps like what it came from are lower temp than engine cooling.

If there is no ram air consideration you are not giving up much with a pusher from a airflow/geometry side. With fixed rpm electric cooling fans most times working on the cold side is best as the fan is volumetric so you end up with a higher mass flow rate. Your setup is not brushless fixed rpm so that does not directly apply.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JNHEscher View Post
Pullers it is! I'm still planning to fab some cool scoops that will force some air into the compartment between the back wall and cores. That won't be as much forced air as a front-mounted radiator, but possibly enough to minimize the need for the fans to run. The PWM controllers will be controlled by the coolant temp sensors. I may have to adjust the impedance of the sensors with some fixed resistors.
08-02-2019 07:58 PM
JNHEscher Crude drawing depicting the desired arrangement. Hot coolant up the center, diverted between six cores (three on each side). First pass through the three upper cores on each side, second pass returning through the three bottom cores on each side.
08-01-2019 07:40 PM
JNHEscher
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sask466 View Post
Sorry if I missed this part, I am having a hard time keeping up! What size of motor are to using to turn that cooling fan? Did you settle on electric or hydraulic?
Data plate numbers make it a 1.5kW motor. It's the OE condenser fan motor. Four-pole brushed with a 3/4" shaft which made it the perfect fit to try the Multi-Wing fan on. Works great, so I'm sticking to it as long as the Dart Controls PWM controller does its job. This setup is working out to be much less expensive than hydraulic. More efficient, too. They'll only turn on when the coolant reaches a certain temperature and speed up when needed. Hydraulic would have been a bit of a parasitic draw as the pump has to turn any time the engine is turning. The alternator also has to turn, but will only put more drag on the engine when the sensing wire detects a draw.
08-01-2019 07:18 PM
Sask466 Sorry if I missed this part, I am having a hard time keeping up! What size of motor are to using to turn that cooling fan? Did you settle on electric or hydraulic?
08-01-2019 05:42 PM
JNHEscher There's only enough depth for one core assembly because the motor case itself is 11" long. It's all a tight fit so I'm going to cut out the upper rails that make up the shelf structure at the top of the back wall. The rails are lapped steel that is rather rusty. Much like how the rest of the rear floor and wall has been, easier to chop it out and put fresh in. I'll raise the shelf a little so the radiator assembly has room.

Six cores bunched together and bolted without gaps is 22.75" wide and 6" deep. The center support tabs on the cores are slotted. About 0.25" of play in each tab. I picked up a 1" copper union at HD today. The OD of the copper slips right in to the ID of the core ports once the rolled lip of the port is reamed off. I'm contemplating the idea of setting these up so that individual cores can be swapped in and out without removing an entire end tank to do so. 1" copper fittings are kinda pricey when you need a cart full.

Edit: I was able to get some measurements pretty easily to plot centers between ports. 3.735". I'm still torn on what to do for plumbing them together. These are always set up with rubber gaskets on the ends that get compressed when the end tanks sandwich the cores. I won't be using that as the gaskets are the #1 failure, according to every article I've read on these.
08-01-2019 08:44 AM
GLTHFJ60 If you have the depth, you could plumb two rows of cores in, with air being pulled through both sets. Run engine water through the cores closest to the puller fan first, then through the inner cores last, then back to the engine. Would help shed more heat I'd think, as the water flowing through the inner cores would be relatively cool.
07-31-2019 06:32 PM
bdkw1 Now that looks better.
07-31-2019 06:21 PM
JNHEscher Pullers it is! I'm still planning to fab some cool scoops that will force some air into the compartment between the back wall and cores. That won't be as much forced air as a front-mounted radiator, but possibly enough to minimize the need for the fans to run. The PWM controllers will be controlled by the coolant temp sensors. I may have to adjust the impedance of the sensors with some fixed resistors.
07-31-2019 05:47 PM
mwilliamshs The biggest loss with pushers fans is because they're in their own way. Their motors, brackets, anything not a blade, reduces flow. Pushers need a shroud even more than pullers because the pressure they create bleeds off the ends of the blade and doesn't go through the radiator.
07-31-2019 05:19 PM
[486]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JNHEscher View Post

If I'm not mistaken, mounting the fans so that they pull air through rather than push it through would be the wisest. Maybe?
vacuum on the fan will reduce load and amperage
pressure on the fan will increase load and amperage

I assume the fan blowing through the rad would increase airflow by a similar amount to the amperage increase (minus the leakage around the shroud) but I'm no expert

every stock application I see is fans sucking through the rad, but they're also all getting forced air across the whole front surface of the rad, so putting shrouded fans in front would reduce their frontal area
07-31-2019 04:21 PM
JNHEscher I'll own up to my ignorance if that's what happened here lol. First pic is what I thought was OE mounting. The pair of locating pins at each end have different spacing, so I thought that meant top and bottom. I had them fastened together with the same distance pins all at top or bottom. The tube angle was good on one side and too perpendicular on the other.

Alternate "top and bottom" again and try mounting the links between cores rather than holding them with vice grips gets me a really nice spacing with tubes all angled well. Maybe this is how they're supposed to run. I never could tell in search pics because everyone stands back to get the entire gargantuan radiator in the lens.

Still with six cores per side and links bolted on, the fan fits just right. Center lands at the gap between the third and fourth core.
07-31-2019 03:29 PM
JNHEscher
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkw1 View Post
Stupid question, I see that the tubes are angled in the radiators. Can the be flipped over to keep the tubes pointing more in the direction of the air flow?

In the pics, one side looks good and the other is almost 90* to the air flow.
Working on that. I didn't like how close to perpendicular they were to the air flow either. Right now I'm just having some difficulty maneuvering them around to work on them anywhere out of my kids' reach. Brought one out to the kitchen table yesterday to make a CAD drawing of it and my youngest took no longer than 30 seconds to knock it off the table. Ugh.

If I'm not mistaken, mounting the fans so that they pull air through rather than push it through would be the wisest. Maybe? I'm definitely shrouding these enough so that little to no air bypasses the cores. The OE pattern does look a little better. Cramming the cores together a little more to fit eight per side would increase the available pathways for air to pass through.

Almost need some kind of a positioning lattice to hold these buggers. I'm not too terribly worried about damage to these ones. Once they're set up, the system will be ready swap in brand new cores if and when needed.

Added a pic of the tubes aligned. Spreads the cores out quite a bit.
07-31-2019 03:07 PM
bdkw1 Stupid question, I see that the tubes are angled in the radiators. Can the be flipped over to keep the tubes pointing more in the direction of the air flow?

In the pics, one side looks good and the other is almost 90* to the air flow.
07-30-2019 08:29 PM
JNHEscher Ordered three Detroit-specific coolant temp sensors at $20 each. I'm going to have to test their impedance myself because nobody knows what they are. 23518092, A0041534228, and 23527830. There's two more, but at a higher cost. If any of these are in the right range, they will be the variable input for the PWM radiator fan motor controllers. If they don't work, I'll have to call up Omega to get the right thermistor picked out. Their units are $72 each.

Ideal range is 5k ohms at around 170 degrees and 0 ohms at 230ish.

Edit: First Dart Controls 65E60 on the way as well. Got a few lines on more motors.
This thread has more than 25 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.