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Topic Review (Newest First)
Yesterday 10:39 PM
JNHEscher First load of connection stuffs showed up today, too. All parts are John Guest aside from a 500-foot spool of LLDPE tubing. Spent the extra money on the brass flare because I don't like how easily plastic flare threads can strip. The second fitting order with manifold connections should be on the way. Got the shipping notification for a couple Sioux Chief copper manifolds. Went with the copper because all the other radiant heat manifolds were nickel-plated brass being passed off as stainless.
Yesterday 10:27 PM
JNHEscher There's quite a bit a room to maneuver around the underside of the pit now. Tons of grinding going on to clean up where I will soon be welding in a plate bottom for the tank pit. Going to check with all the local steel suppliers for a 3'x5' drop of plate and grab some 1" square tube. Dropping the plate down by 1" from the current level will make 9" of height for the corny tanks and the 1" tube will strengthen the sections of beams that are open plate. Pics to follow.

Mocked up the air tanks some more and got the idea to bolt them sideways to some unistrut uprights. I was planning to weld in some strut to clamp the flex conduit to anyway, so this doubles up the mounting duty. Grabbing some spring washers to make positioning the air tanks easy on the unistruts. Shot of one of the unistrut uprights - along with the nastiest welds I managed to lay down. Meh.

Since I had already cut some the 1.5" tube to the width to span over top of the beam, I fit in a third tube so that all four unistrut uprights would have horizontal and vertical welds holding them. This third tube also provides support for the air tanks. I wouldn't care to mount the air tanks sideways without some sort of stopper under the cylinders because I don't trust the aluminum tank feet to not develop stress cracks at some point with all the vibration that goes on in a bus.

With all that, the tanks are still able to be unbolted, clocked about ten degrees, and extracted from their caves after the floor is down.
06-23-2019 01:29 AM
JNHEscher Lined up the tanks minus one. Right: my 10-gallon portable, middle: one of the front tanks, left: rear tank.

Looks to me like they're all about 10 gallons. There's ample room to mount two 12-gallon tanks up front and I can mount the rear tank wherever I decide is fitting.

I need more than one 3/4" port on two of the tanks. The only stainless tank that I've come up with for a replacement is adorned with a single 3/4" port. That'll be a lot of argon purge to weld in bigger ports.

With all that new tubing welded in, I tackled the lower cross member. Sawzall blade kept binding so I went ahead and torched it. Kicked it out and nothing else fell apart. Managed to also torch out the rusty lips that the cross member was welded to and filled the air with a ton of smoke from what was left of expanding foam. Man, that stuff is horrid. If tomorrow's weather allows, I plan to strap in some tanks so that I can mock up where the new lower cross member pieces should go.
06-22-2019 02:57 PM
JNHEscher Jumped into the wheel wells and got busy stacking welds. Got both sides done just minutes before the storm-o'clock hour hit. All joints are burned in aside from a couple end openings where I'm going squirt some thin oil in to let creep between welded pieces. Gotta slow the rust somehow because I sure as hell can't keep up against all this sideways rain and hail.
06-21-2019 04:41 PM
JNHEscher Picked up the eBay manifolds today. For as cheap as they were, I was a bit skeptical as to whether or not they were really stainless steel. No visible color difference in about 3/32" deep filing, but this is the softest "stainless" I've ever scratched. Didn't take any more than half a dozen strokes with a file to make a groove that deep. Perimeter of the face port is gold and OD has striations like this is extruded, nickel-plated brass. End ports are 1" NPT and face ports are 1/2" NPT. I can't find any data about these or any other pictures. Just some info about Unicor being bought by Uphonor.

Edit: Took it in the bus to touch it with a drill. Bit sinks right in and the chips are bright gold. "Tis plated brass.
06-21-2019 08:52 AM
JNHEscher Steel is probably best for the front tanks. They hang low right behind the steer axle where they're susceptible to debris impacts. Dont mind shelling out a little more for stainless so I dont have to worry about the oxidation.
06-21-2019 04:58 AM
DE Jeeper I picked up standard aluminum semitruck air tanks from the dismantler for $100. If u dont want to go stainless. Not sure how many gallons they r but they have 6 ports so locating the hoses is easy.
06-20-2019 10:39 PM
JNHEscher Got on the welding this eve. Around 75% done. Hopefully I'll have some better stuff to post next week.

Side note - since receiving my uncle's 30-gallon air compressor, I've drained some pretty gnarly piles of junk out if it a few times, each time having to stab something in it to break the clog loose. Got a good look at what came out of it last night and it was an alarming amount of rusted steel chunks. The tank is getting decommissioned this weekend.

On the hunt for some stainless tanks that won't break the bank. I found a 12-gallon. Gotta check the diameters of the OE tanks to see if I could start off with replacing those with stainless and running my plasma and such off those for now. There's three tanks. If a 12-gallon fits in each location, there's my new compressor storage for the time being. I had planned to pull the compressor off the 30-gallon tank to then mount the tank in the engine bay for quick brake and suspension fills and accessory use. 30 gallons in stainless is a bit pricey. Shoot me links of any you know of, though. 12-gallon tanks are $200ish each and 30-gallon tanks appear to be in the thousands.
06-19-2019 11:29 PM
JNHEscher Might be able to weld all this up tomorrow. Bottle has plenty of gas and I loaded on a new 10 pound spool today.
06-19-2019 11:18 PM
JNHEscher All positioned and tacked.
06-18-2019 09:25 PM
JNHEscher Not as much progress as planned for today. Busy with house repairs and rain turned the yard into a swamp again. Notched the 2x5 for the square tubing, flipped the cutouts around and welded them in so that the 2x5 would be sealed up again prior to welding it in place.

I had to slit the 11 gauge panel that the 2x5 was going under because the pitch in the floor frame tapered down enough at the very front that the 2x5 wouldn't quite fit. A little more tomorrow.
06-18-2019 12:12 AM
JNHEscher Open a window on both sides, then you have a work bench for materials 8' and longer. Stripped all the mill scale off the tubing and finished prepping the beams. Positioned the 1.5" tubes and mocked up the air tanks. I decided to notch the 2x5 tubes and weld those up before fitting over the 1.5" tubes. Didn't take any other pictures today, so I'll show ya tomorrow.
06-16-2019 10:18 PM
JNHEscher Just ordered six of these buggers for $26.93 shipped. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Radiant-Hea...72.m2749.l2649

The three-star review was actually encouraging because I didn't need ports as large as claimed. They were so dirt cheap that I couldn't really pass up the chance to build the stainless manifolds for so little when compared to all the other options. I've search a bunch of PTC manifolds as well and couldn't come up with anything to suit that didn't require a multitude of assemblies because of port size differences.
06-16-2019 08:57 PM
JNHEscher About as shiny as they can be. Long list of stuff to do this week while my pops is here. Should be stripping the mill scale off the tubing tomorrow and starting to position them. Air tanks tracking says they'll be here Tuesday.
06-15-2019 12:53 AM
JNHEscher Eh? https://www.freshwatersystems.com/pr...0aAtvMEALw_wcB

Whatever I searched showed this fitting in the shopping category and it happens to be the exact size on both ends. I know nothing of the brand or company. Braided AN lines and such would be dandy if it weren't for the cost of it all multiplied by eight tanks. The RO systems use the same type of plastic fittings and tubing with a max pressure of 85 psi as a whole system. The polyethylene tubing takes 150 psi. For the cost, I think it's safe for me to order a bag of the fittings to try out without much loss if they're no good.



I think this will end up being the water manifold of choice, albeit Chinese. I can't really justify spending double on the more prominent PEX brands with fewer parts for this particular system. https://www.pexuniverse.com/ssm204-s...-heat-manifold. Ends should be 1" npt and faces should be 1/2" npt.

The benefit of using a 4-loop radiant heating manifold setup is that it will accommodate all eight tanks and plenty of RO outputs on one tube, and the second tube can handle the lower pressure PE-RT fixture lines with a water pressure regulator between the tubes. Makes good sense and it seems most of these types of manifolds are good for 100 psi. The shut offs are a bonus that I will likely use. All compression and flow regulator port adapters will be swapped out for PTC and Sharkbite adapters.
06-14-2019 07:28 PM
JNHEscher
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstRam View Post
I have a few Pepsi kegs that I use as sprayers that routinely see 100 psi (ball locks) and I've never had a problem. I also have 4 that I machined the fitting on top of the tank down and welded 1/4" SS couplings with ball valves to make them a little more user friendly.

The modified tanks flow better without the stock check valves restricting the flow. You could use 90 push to lock swivel fittings to keep good flow and cheap repair parts.

McMaster 51055K53 They're plastic but so are the ball locks. SS fittings are available but $$$.
Good news. Saves me some time and trouble. I wasn't planning to modify the ball locks in any way. Figure having the check valves is a nice feature for any time I want to pull tanks for any reason and be able to leave a few in to keep the system running.

What sucks right now is interconnecting it all because these weren't built to flow as much as I need which requires that the liquid outputs be paralleled. Otherwise I'd just run all the tanks in series to get one air port and one liquid port. I'm a bit tempted to go series anyway to save a ton of coin in fittings and lines. I can't remember what the washing machine requires for flow, but the sinks will likely be 0.5 gpm each and the shower is 0.5-1.5 gpm.
06-14-2019 07:02 PM
FirstRam I have a few Pepsi kegs that I use as sprayers that routinely see 100 psi (ball locks) and I've never had a problem. I also have 4 that I machined the fitting on top of the tank down and welded 1/4" SS couplings with ball valves to make them a little more user friendly.

The modified tanks flow better without the stock check valves restricting the flow. You could use 90 push to lock swivel fittings to keep good flow and cheap repair parts.

McMaster 51055K53 They're plastic but so are the ball locks. SS fittings are available but $$$.
06-14-2019 06:11 PM
JNHEscher Working on planning line routes. The tanks do nest nicely. I measured them at 33.25" when perpendicular. Not a problem because there's plenty of extra foot material that I can cut off to get them down to 32.5" I was thinking that the posts were splayed a bit, but they are parallel to the tank sides. There will be 1.5" of headroom above the tanks and in between the 1.5" tubes to work in and none of the ball lock couplers land directly underneath any of the tubes.

I've been wracking my brain over the lines and fittings. Have to wait for the air tanks to get here before I can figure anything out for sure. I want the lines to enter bottom tank ports so that if water does ever reach the expansion tanks, it can drain right back out. A ball float check valve would be handy, not particularly necessary, though I would be wise to T the air lines to a single port for check valve installation. I don't think changes in temperature or elevation will really be of any bother - especially with 10 gallons of expansion, thus I'm going without valve for now.
Water lines, on the other hand, need to manifold in parallel to something closer to 5/8"/-10 or 3/4"/-12 before branching off to the 3/8" PE-RT(newer PEX) home runs. I've been browsing various AN fitting and weld-on bung options to make some kind of manifold run. Might have to see what I can come up with for a PEX tube turned into manifold with T fittings. There's not a whole lot of room where the liquid fittings reside.

The plastic ball locks may be fine, though I am going to both fill a tank with water and hook up my compressor to an unconnected and connected fitting and run it to 100 psi to be sure that the fittings won't blow apart as soon as I open the gates to the installed system. Don't know until I try because the kegging articles I pulled up never mentioned anything above 20 psi.

Expanding on the SketchUp model of the tanks in the pit, I added the rusty walls/beams I have to work within along with the 1.5" cross tubes. I'm starting on the wheels tubs next so that I can figure in weight with functionality.
06-14-2019 03:27 AM
JNHEscher Reordered the Airlift tanks. Had to rush to cancel last nights order because it had the wrong address. Hopefully those will be on their way by later today and arrive early next week so that I can determine where to set tubes and such. Did a little measuring to see where the tanks could sit and it looks like the 1/4" drain ports will hang over the pit so that the air lines can clear everything. I may mount the tanks so that the face ports point downward instead so that I can access the foot mounting hardware easier.

I'll probably finish grinding the beam tops tomorrow. Acid worked some. There's still a lot of rust pits that I'll have to weld over and rust convert later on once everything is burned in. Looked over the subframe some more today and noticed that the heavy wall beams don't actually extend all the way to the firewall. They stop and some 11 gauge sheet that the front uprights are formed with that has gotten pretty rusty. I'll have to address that after I restructure to top of the subrame to restore strength.

Maybe some test fitting of water tanks tomorrow. Until then. Off to bed.
06-13-2019 08:10 PM
JNHEscher Whisler for the post and tube rings. Old West Homebrew Supply for the rest. Dug through all the supply lines at Home Depot. They're all compression, so to Summit I'll go for all the -4 interconnect lines.

Measured the freshly opened gap atop the subframe beams last night. 5" tall and 1.5" overhang between the beam edge and underside of the center rail. Glaser Steel had plenty of 2x5 3/16" at $9/ft. Around 400 cubic inches inside each tube. Wonder what I'll stuff inside 'em.
06-13-2019 12:03 AM
JNHEscher All but one corner done. Gotta grab some more discs. Wore down my last one so it won't reach into the last corner. I'm thinking I'll have to scrub the beams with muriatic acid to get in to all the pits without having to grind down 1/16" of steel. Found a rust hole at the front of the curb side beam that I'll need to fix and the front of the road side beam sounds really hollow. I'm not sure why that section would have been made with much thinner steel. Stuff to find out.

About to order air tanks, fittings, O-rings, etc. Might even order the Shurflo if there's enough funds left. Now that I think about it, I could use one or both of the spare Pepsi kegs for the pump pressure tank. Kinda need to test the system out. I'm guessing the water pressure between the pump and RO filters won't drop very quickly, but a pressure tank helps a ton with pump cycling.
06-12-2019 05:41 PM
JNHEscher
Quote:
Originally Posted by Java View Post
Sweet! Change all the orings now while they are not crammed together!!

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Yup! They don't look too shabby, but better to do it now. And I have the shopping list posted! I'll be trimming and bending the liquid dip tubes so that they're all at drawing from the lowest point with the tanks horizontally mounted. Gas tubes might get pointed as high as I can get them. Gonna order a pile of the CM Becker fittings and see if I can get 1/4" flare water supply hoses from Lowe's or something. If not, Summit will have all kinds of AN braided hoses to choose from. Teflon vs. PVC lining probably doesn't matter much. The household supply hoses are just a lot cheaper and can be purchased locally by the bundle.

I'll need to parallel all the liquid lines to some kind of manifold of sorts so that there's enough total flow. 1/4" line is good for one faucet, but we'll have two sinks, one washer, and one shower. All low-flow/high efficiency.
06-12-2019 05:34 PM
JNHEscher In case I've been confusing anyone. Slid a tube in to measure across. 100.5". The tubes will sit on top of the subframe beams and underneath the center chase(originally the cold air return) and be welded to both. The excess of the tubes that hangs into the wheel openings will act as the slider posts for the wheel tubs. I'm thinking the curb side tub will double as a slide-out table for bbq's. Make multiple uses of it all, I say.

I would be using the two spare Pepsi kegs as the expansion tanks, but they're too large to shove into the spare spaces I have that are higher than the location of the water tanks. Hence two of these https://www.summitracing.com/parts/air-11956 will go in. I can't weld in the square tubing until these tanks come in so I can be sure that everything is dimensionally accurate. Some air tank manufacturer specs can be a little......inflated.

No further cutting will commence on the pit until I have those square tubes welded up top. The X member of heavy wall 1.5" square that spans between the bottom of the two subframe beams is about all that currently joins the beams. There's quite a bit a 14-11 gauge sheet metal attaching them as well, but I'm not going to rely on that, even though I have the bus on jacks and the steer axle fully supported right now.
06-12-2019 05:11 PM
Java Sweet! Change all the orings now while they are not crammed together!!

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
06-12-2019 05:09 PM
JNHEscher 10 for $300. Went ahead on got the two spares. Not as cheap as some. Not as expensive as others. Still a good deal from some genuine fellows at Whiskey Barrel Coffee in Denver. Pretty cool small fab shop they have in back where the kegs were and awesome antique coffee machines up front.

Good thing the guy I was talking to announced the two different tank styles. The first ones I looked at had both nipples on the same side. Caught me off guard. He explained that the kegs up top were the tall, skinny ones and the bottom was the short, fat ones. The short ones were 9x22's that were originally pin locks that had been converted to ball lock. Tall ones are the actual Pepsi kegs that are in fact 8.5x24 with nipples on opposite sides. 9" diameter tanks wouldn't have fit. I'm still chuckling at how much lighter they are than that 400-pound stainless box was going to be (not including the water).
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