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Topic Review (Newest First)
Yesterday 03:28 PM
Java Ping tanks are in the works.

And yes that's the page! Kelderman sent it to me.... They say I'm just feeling the rear end.... So then why am I only using 2.5" of travel?!?

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Yesterday 03:22 PM
bdkw1 Hey, that's the catalog I was looking for! They used to be so much better. Note the funky spring rate curve. The last 2" ramp up really quick.
Yesterday 12:11 PM
FirstRam Reconsider ping tanks. I adapted a 1/2" push to connect to a coupling nut that fit the threads of the hollow mounting stud (3/4-16). I used rtv to seal the straight threads.

It really did help with the harshness but I'm only dealing with helper springs.
Yesterday 11:43 AM
Java Bag data!!!

A little hard to read, But shows the curves and spring rates. spring rates @ 80psi 535, @100psi 658 (at 9")

Yesterday 07:45 AM
Java
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLTHFJ60 View Post
I'd say you've found your issue, lol.



Read up. Adding fluid to the bag will not decrease the pressure needed to get the height you require. It will increase the rate at which the spring rate increases as you compress the air spring, because you would have a smaller volume of gas (compressed air).

http://lhtech.com/pdf/automation/pne...pring-Data.pdf
I sure hope thats the issue (and my Oring works... I didn't have one that was "fat enough" it seemed. I doubled up on a A110 )

Thanks, reading now. That was my understanding as well. The size of the surface of the cylinder (air bag diameter) along with the weight supported dictates the pressure.
Yesterday 07:06 AM
GLTHFJ60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Java View Post
Your fucking shitting me. That's all that's left of the Oring, if there was ever one....
I'd say you've found your issue, lol.



Read up. Adding fluid to the bag will not decrease the pressure needed to get the height you require. It will increase the rate at which the spring rate increases as you compress the air spring, because you would have a smaller volume of gas (compressed air).

http://lhtech.com/pdf/automation/pne...pring-Data.pdf
09-17-2019 07:45 PM
Java Your fucking shitting me. That's all that's left of the Oring, if there was ever one....

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09-17-2019 04:35 PM
Java
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkw1 View Post
I was trying to find the spring rate curves for those bags but apparently Firestone doesn't publish them anymore. I need to find my old Firestone catalog that had all that info.



And most of the bags I have used have required a little antifreeze to up the progression rate. Granted, they have all been double billow bags. The rolling bags have a funky spring rate curve that I stayed away from.
From what I could find (look at their ordering form) they look really flat across the middle, but I may be just too far to one end.

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09-17-2019 04:24 PM
bdkw1 I was trying to find the spring rate curves for those bags but apparently Firestone doesn't publish them anymore. I need to find my old Firestone catalog that had all that info.

And most of the bags I have used have required a little antifreeze to up the progression rate. Granted, they have all been double billow bags. The rolling bags have a funky spring rate curve that I stayed away from.
09-17-2019 01:44 PM
Java And down the rabbit hole we go.... I finally found Firestone's PDF of Engineering design and guide. Oh boy is it a read....

But I came across this nugget.



So it increases the natural frequency. Humans like higher frequency. Long bouncy = no good. But I don't have that issue. The other is positioning. Not sure I want to be limiting travel IE increasing accurate positioning?
09-17-2019 01:19 PM
Java
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65Chevy4x4 View Post
What I understand about adding antifreeze to bag is that it makes the pressure ramp up faster since there is less volume in the bag. Similar to adding more oil to an air shock. Allows you to run lower pressure when extended and adds spring rate when compressed.
Seems like it would make the spring rate rise much faster. And I don't quite grasp how it would need lower pressure?
09-17-2019 09:47 AM
65Chevy4x4 What I understand about adding antifreeze to bag is that it makes the pressure ramp up faster since there is less volume in the bag. Similar to adding more oil to an air shock. Allows you to run lower pressure when extended and adds spring rate when compressed.
09-17-2019 09:29 AM
Java
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLTHFJ60 View Post
I'd replace the o-ring and put some thread sealant, not thread locker, on the bottom bolt.


As for your suspension, it seems you need enough pressure to get the necessary height out of your bags that you're too high on the spring rate for your truck. I'd call whomever sold you those bags to see what their opinion is. Perhaps they have a different bag that will allow the same height at a lower pressure for a cushier ride.
My thoughts exactly, unfortunately we are supposed to get a couple inches of rain today.... That sounds like a terrible time to be under the truck.

They had no ideas.... They said don't look at pressure and set the bags to 8" tall. So I did. It still sucks. Cant get a larger bag in there without rubbing. Its already closer than I like to the frame on the drivers side (especially when aired up to 9").

I'm tempted to try a cheap set of coils. I can get all the coil parts back in in 4-6 hours probably..... UGH

Quote:
Originally Posted by 65Chevy4x4 View Post
Have you tried to add antifreeze to the bag so it takes less pressure to hold ride height
Does that actually work? I get that water/antifreeze cannot compress like air, but it seems it would still take nearly the same amount of pressure. Its just a cylinder. I can see a bigger bag taking less pressure as there is a larger cylinder area.

Google is no help as its all about freezing lines.....
09-17-2019 09:20 AM
65Chevy4x4 Have you tried to add antifreeze to the bag so it takes less pressure to hold ride height
09-17-2019 08:06 AM
GLTHFJ60 I'd replace the o-ring and put some thread sealant, not thread locker, on the bottom bolt.


As for your suspension, it seems you need enough pressure to get the necessary height out of your bags that you're too high on the spring rate for your truck. I'd call whomever sold you those bags to see what their opinion is. Perhaps they have a different bag that will allow the same height at a lower pressure for a cushier ride.
09-16-2019 08:43 PM
Java
Quote:
Originally Posted by v6toy4x View Post
If it is easy to get to change just the O ring otherwise change it all
There is a reason I'm using my phone to just take pics. I can't see there lol.

But two bolts and I can pull the tube out o think. Upper one is going to suck to get to.

But I'm going to aim to change the Oring only. I have a giant box of viton ones. Hopefully one fits.

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09-16-2019 08:37 PM
v6toy4x
Quote:
Originally Posted by Java View Post
Ok some progress!

Took the truck to the store, hit a couple big hills and got oil to 200 degrees.

Half a roll of paper towels and a can of brake clean later we have this. Clean ish.



Idled in the driveway for 10 mins, now look at the bolt holding the dipstick! Should I replace the whole thing or just try to do the Oring?





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If it is easy to get to change just the O ring otherwise change it all
09-16-2019 07:53 PM
Java Ok some progress!

Took the truck to the store, hit a couple big hills and got oil to 200 degrees.

Half a roll of paper towels and a can of brake clean later we have this. Clean ish.



Idled in the driveway for 10 mins, now look at the bolt holding the dipstick! Should I replace the whole thing or just try to do the Oring?



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09-16-2019 03:57 PM
Java
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkw1 View Post
That oil "leak" is just Ford's way of keeping the frame from rusting.



How much pressure do you have in the bags now? What # are the bags?
Yeah.... It was a lot smaller before....

Running 75-78psi



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09-16-2019 03:47 PM
bdkw1 That oil "leak" is just Ford's way of keeping the frame from rusting.

How much pressure do you have in the bags now? What # are the bags?
09-16-2019 10:58 AM
Java
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLTHFJ60 View Post
So you're still having the same issue as before the new shocks, and the shocks, nor bags, are bottoming out when it happens, based on the zip tie trick?

As for the oil leak, holy shit that's a lot of oil. Is the dipstick connected in that picture? Looks like it's not.
Correct, nothing seems to be bottoming at all. I am using hardly any suspension travel

And yeah.... Its a ton more than it used to be!! Its always leaked a little, but not like that. I didn't even see the dipstick when I was under there.... Only in the pictures. I will have to clean up and investigate.

Its just a Oring and a retainer clip/tab it looks like. Oring shit the bed perhaps?

09-16-2019 10:52 AM
GLTHFJ60 So you're still having the same issue as before the new shocks, and the shocks, nor bags, are bottoming out when it happens, based on the zip tie trick?

As for the oil leak, holy shit that's a lot of oil. Is the dipstick connected in that picture? Looks like it's not.
09-16-2019 08:56 AM
Java Begin ramble...

Spring rates. you need a minimum to hold the weight up. No two ways around that. BUT with the air bags, you have to add pressure to get the height. A spring can be made taller at the same spring rate correct? Where in the air bag the spring rate is increased with air pressure. However in theory the spring rate is as low as it can be to hold the weight at X height?

Zip ties on the shock shafts show I am not using the front suspension. Nearly NOT AT ALL. When I got to the start of gravel, I hopped out, three fingers of movement on the shaft, ~2.5" uptravel.... Thats not much (and not bottoming out on the bags)

Here is after a pretty decently rough section. A bit more movement, but still not much...


I did try inflating the bags to 9" tall. No difference, a bit worse even perhaps (more spring rate...). And they sit funky on the bases like that, not happy looking.


Frustrated.

Should I go back to coils? Just try to find taller softer ones?! Anyone have an idea of spring rate needed? 6200lbs on the front axle.


Went and played on the rocks.





Shoved my phone in and took a bunch of pictures.... This one caught my eye once it was on the computer. Looks like possibly the dipstick (or whatever that tube is..)? There is no "gunk" stuck there, high flow spot?
09-15-2019 03:24 PM
Java And.... My oil leak is getting worse! Grrrr no idea where it's coming from now. Looks like rear main ish as the most of it is around the back of the oil pan and the bellhousing.

Upper pan doesn't look like it's leaking.

Underside is well oiled now...




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09-15-2019 09:25 AM
Java Spring rates.... Needs to be high enough to hold the weight. Unless I'm crazy I can't get any less?

Added zip Ties to the shock shaft. Definately not bottoming on the bags bump stop. Only about 2.5" of movement on the uptravel anyway.

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