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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-12-2020 04:40 PM
CarterKaft
Quote:
Originally Posted by Java View Post
Yeah sorta.

It doesn't appear to be charging at high enough voltage for the temp, batteries are at 9c....


Per the full river manual I would agree. At 10C bulk and absorb should be both over 15v and float over 14v.

Anyway to pre-heat that compartment at home? Even just for testing, basically "pretend camping" so you can monitor it from work during the week?
02-11-2020 07:03 PM
Java
Quote:
Originally Posted by 87manche View Post
well at least that gets you the discharge curve.
Yeah sorta.

It doesn't appear to be charging at high enough voltage for the temp, batteries are at 9c....




Edit : I guess it did bump a bit higher.



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
02-11-2020 05:28 PM
87manche well at least that gets you the discharge curve.
02-11-2020 03:43 PM
Java Truck is connected to the interwebs..... Still no clue on the battery issues.....

02-10-2020 07:11 PM
JNHEscher
Quote:
Originally Posted by v6toy4x View Post
Dynamax has just released an new super C (Isata-5 28SS) with lithium drop ins and builtin heaters, I think relion or battle born was the manuf.

Java is right though, what we think is great today in regards to lithium will be old school in the next few years.
A few weeks ago I think there was a short mention of Battle Born coming out with batteries that have built-in heaters. Might have been Will Prowse. That'd be more efficient than trying to push heat through the plastic cases.

And ditto. Battery tech is getting fresher every day. Maybe even every minute.
02-10-2020 06:55 PM
Java
Quote:
Originally Posted by v6toy4x View Post
I think insulating and trying if possible to heat the battery storage is the way to go as opposed to elec heat for the most part.



In my current slide in camper, I pulled the battery box and had just enough room to wrap it with 1" urethane rigid insulation and since venting is not an issue I put a small transfer grill from inside to the batteries.



I live in northern ca so dont typically need to worry when it is plugged in at home.



My next plan is to have the batteries located entirely inside the conditioned space under a sofa with circulating heat.



Dynamax has just released an new super C (Isata-5 28SS) with lithium drop ins and builtin heaters, I think relion or battle born was the manuf.



Java is right though, what we think is great today in regards to lithium will be old school in the next few years.
They are on 1" of xps on the floor. That's the least insulated area.

A grill to living area could be done, but without a fan I'm not sure it would do much.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
02-10-2020 06:40 PM
v6toy4x
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarterKaft View Post
Have you seen any info on battery warming current consumption.
I was thinking if the batteries are in a 2" XPS insulated box, how much current would it take to keep them warm?

Duct in some hot air off the webasto, or the ideal run some hyronic grid under them would be easy.
I think insulating and trying if possible to heat the battery storage is the way to go as opposed to elec heat for the most part.

In my current slide in camper, I pulled the battery box and had just enough room to wrap it with 1" urethane rigid insulation and since venting is not an issue I put a small transfer grill from inside to the batteries.

I live in northern ca so dont typically need to worry when it is plugged in at home.

My next plan is to have the batteries located entirely inside the conditioned space under a sofa with circulating heat.

Dynamax has just released an new super C (Isata-5 28SS) with lithium drop ins and builtin heaters, I think relion or battle born was the manuf.

Java is right though, what we think is great today in regards to lithium will be old school in the next few years.
02-10-2020 05:27 PM
Java
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarterKaft View Post
Have you seen any info on battery warming current consumption.

I was thinking if the batteries are in a 2" XPS insulated box, how much current would it take to keep them warm?



Duct in some hot air off the webasto, or the ideal run some hyronic grid under them would be easy.
I can't get heat to them easily.... Unless it's a pad heater. Which I really don't want to do.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
02-10-2020 05:26 PM
Java
Quote:
Originally Posted by JNHEscher View Post
If I'm understanding correctly, you set the charging parameters for your battery specs. Does your charger have an option to program it for the battery profile and temperature compensation?



For our bus, I've bought Midnite Solar KID chargers, Battle Born batteries, and Schneider Conext 4024. I think I remember reading that the inverter/charger controller has a screen tab and the charge controllers have an option for the battery profile so that it knows exactly the type, DOD, high-low voltage specs, et. to measure and display the battery bank conditions.



I did read through a bunch of the Victron manuals a couple years ago. Imagine their equipment has the same or better options. Brain is pretty fuzzy today so I could be blowing smoke. You should be able to make a quick selection of battery type and find a settings tab or something to refine the specs.
Yes charger is all setup for the batteries, to the mfg charging spec.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CarterKaft View Post
There are a couple of issues you have working against you.



First, the voltage reading for SOC should be resting, little to no current draw for 30? minutes.



Secondly the 39F battery temp is a problem, because you are already dropping to 87% capacity. You don't get to use the 50% from the 87% starting point because you can't go lower than the 50% SOC voltage...



Did you enter the temperature compensation settings for the batteries? At those cell temps you should have been up over 15v in bulk and floating over 14.









Was 12.2 ish no draw.

No SOC is not temp corrected. I may be able to get the temp probé to talk to the bmv. Researching....

No charging was done at those Temps. And I will take a look, as they were 9c (43 ish) at home, but most charging was done on the drive.

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02-10-2020 05:08 PM
CarterKaft
Quote:
Originally Posted by v6toy4x View Post
I will throw my 2 cents now that you have decided, bought and installed batteries.

There is no question (IMO) Lithium is worth the effort and $$ especially for someone who uses his stuff un-plugged as much as you do.

Significantly more "available" amp hour compared to AGM (LIPO goes 80% DOD and AGM is only 50% DOD) with your 500AHs that is 150AH more, this "extra" capacity in and of itself is more than capable to "heat" themselves when needed AND still have more power available.
Significant reduction in weight
Significant increase in duty cycles

Again only worth 2 cents, carry on.
I do like the Victron stuff!
Have you seen any info on battery warming current consumption.
I was thinking if the batteries are in a 2" XPS insulated box, how much current would it take to keep them warm?

Duct in some hot air off the webasto, or the ideal run some hyronic grid under them would be easy.
02-10-2020 05:04 PM
CarterKaft
Quote:
Originally Posted by Java View Post
Alright smart people...... Help me out here.

Installed batteries, charger etc. Set the charge profile to what the battery mfg speed. 14.7 bulk, and I don't remember float... According to the meter it was full, taking in no more Power(plugged in for a couple days).

We took it out this weekend, and by this morning batteries were dipping to 12.0 under load.... Shunt showed 95ah drawn out, and ~87% left (set at 500ah).

Battery temp was 39.8F (on the closet ones, the outer wall may be a little colder, but there is an air gap there)

WTF is going on??

And otherwise the weekend was pretty damn decent.

There are a couple of issues you have working against you.

First, the voltage reading for SOC should be resting, little to no current draw for 30? minutes.

Secondly the 39F battery temp is a problem, because you are already dropping to 87% capacity. You don't get to use the 50% from the 87% starting point because you can't go lower than the 50% SOC voltage...

Did you enter the temperature compensation settings for the batteries? At those cell temps you should have been up over 15v in bulk and floating over 14.




02-10-2020 04:17 PM
JNHEscher If I'm understanding correctly, you set the charging parameters for your battery specs. Does your charger have an option to program it for the battery profile and temperature compensation?

For our bus, I've bought Midnite Solar KID chargers, Battle Born batteries, and Schneider Conext 4024. I think I remember reading that the inverter/charger controller has a screen tab and the charge controllers have an option for the battery profile so that it knows exactly the type, DOD, high-low voltage specs, et. to measure and display the battery bank conditions.

I did read through a bunch of the Victron manuals a couple years ago. Imagine their equipment has the same or better options. Brain is pretty fuzzy today so I could be blowing smoke. You should be able to make a quick selection of battery type and find a settings tab or something to refine the specs.
02-10-2020 10:51 AM
Java
Quote:
Originally Posted by v6toy4x View Post
I agree on the lack of "proof" of duty cycle but I also really like they will take a charge at high rate and you can stop and start charge cycles. Get a standalone 200amp alternator ran through a balmar multi stage regulator with the lifePo4 program then when you need it just fire up the truck for a bit and give them a zap on top of solar and or inverter charger.

Now I am rambling and trying to justify it for myself.

Anyway I do like the 6 volt series as well, the other obstacle I had was in a slide in camper the battery compartment is out at the perimeter wall above the bed rail so support for 4-500AH of AGM was a bit lacking.

On another note is your box composite panel construction?
Looking at next rig to be a bit bigger and the composite boxes look very interesting. Maybe a freightliner M2 cummins L9 4x4 with a 20' box and a slide or two! A guy can always dream.

Keep the adventures with your family and the pics coming!
My box is all aluminum. 1/8" skin with ribs every 12"
02-10-2020 10:14 AM
v6toy4x
Quote:
Originally Posted by Java View Post

I agree the Litium is great, but I am not quite ready to jump on that bandwagon yet. I have a feeling it will get better.

I would also have to redo everything to go lithium. Heated battery box, dedicated DC-DC charger, BMS, reconfigure the space fr the batteries etc.

The other thing with lithium, they claim long life, high duty cycles etc, but there have not really been any long term tests done. The tech just hasn't been widely in use long enough yet to have good data.
I agree on the lack of "proof" of duty cycle but I also really like they will take a charge at high rate and you can stop and start charge cycles. Get a standalone 200amp alternator ran through a balmar multi stage regulator with the lifePo4 program then when you need it just fire up the truck for a bit and give them a zap on top of solar and or inverter charger.

Now I am rambling and trying to justify it for myself.

Anyway I do like the 6 volt series as well, the other obstacle I had was in a slide in camper the battery compartment is out at the perimeter wall above the bed rail so support for 4-500AH of AGM was a bit lacking.

On another note is your box composite panel construction?
Looking at next rig to be a bit bigger and the composite boxes look very interesting. Maybe a freightliner M2 cummins L9 4x4 with a 20' box and a slide or two! A guy can always dream.

Keep the adventures with your family and the pics coming!
02-10-2020 09:38 AM
Java
Quote:
Originally Posted by 87manche View Post
you can format up to 128gb with fat32 if you do it right.

I have a 128gb flah drive in my 2008 bmw that only understands fat32.


battery draw things is odd.
have you put an actual meter on the batteries to make sure the electronics aren't fucky?

still, depending on current draw, 12v may be above 50% charge.
https://www.scubaengineer.com/docume...ing_graphs.pdf
I have a couple of SD's I can play with. It seems the log files are pretty small.

I did get the wifi dongle, and got it uploading to the VRM portal.

I will say though, for Victron, the color control phone/remote use SUCKS. Really bad. At least compared to the BT hookup for the BMV and solar (which I can use for the BMV now as it needs to talk to the color control)


Quote:
Originally Posted by v6toy4x View Post
I will throw my 2 cents now that you have decided, bought and installed batteries.

There is no question (IMO) Lithium is worth the effort and $$ especially for someone who uses his stuff un-plugged as much as you do.

Significantly more "available" amp hour compared to AGM (LIPO goes 80% DOD and AGM is only 50% DOD) with your 500AHs that is 150AH more, this "extra" capacity in and of itself is more than capable to "heat" themselves when needed AND still have more power available.
Significant reduction in weight
Significant increase in duty cycles

Again only worth 2 cents, carry on.
I do like the Victron stuff!
I agree the Litium is great, but I am not quite ready to jump on that bandwagon yet. I have a feeling it will get better.

I would also have to redo everything to go lithium. Heated battery box, dedicated DC-DC charger, BMS, reconfigure the space fr the batteries etc.

The other thing with lithium, they claim long life, high duty cycles etc, but there have not really been any long term tests done. The tech just hasn't been widely in use long enough yet to have good data.
02-10-2020 09:22 AM
v6toy4x I will throw my 2 cents now that you have decided, bought and installed batteries.

There is no question (IMO) Lithium is worth the effort and $$ especially for someone who uses his stuff un-plugged as much as you do.

Significantly more "available" amp hour compared to AGM (LIPO goes 80% DOD and AGM is only 50% DOD) with your 500AHs that is 150AH more, this "extra" capacity in and of itself is more than capable to "heat" themselves when needed AND still have more power available.
Significant reduction in weight
Significant increase in duty cycles

Again only worth 2 cents, carry on.
I do like the Victron stuff!
02-10-2020 09:07 AM
87manche
Quote:
Originally Posted by Java View Post
Yes I think its 48 internal, and more with SD, cant use too large and SD as it must be FAT32, not exFAt32.
you can format up to 128gb with fat32 if you do it right.

I have a 128gb flah drive in my 2008 bmw that only understands fat32.


battery draw things is odd.
have you put an actual meter on the batteries to make sure the electronics aren't fucky?

still, depending on current draw, 12v may be above 50% charge.
https://www.scubaengineer.com/docume...ing_graphs.pdf
02-10-2020 08:55 AM
Java Alright smart people...... Help me out here.

Installed batteries, charger etc. Set the charge profile to what the battery mfg speed. 14.7 bulk, and I don't remember float... According to the meter it was full, taking in no more Power(plugged in for a couple days).

We took it out this weekend, and by this morning batteries were dipping to 12.0 under load.... Shunt showed 95ah drawn out, and ~87% left (set at 500ah).

Battery temp was 39.8F (on the closet ones, the outer wall may be a little colder, but there is an air gap there)

WTF is going on??

And otherwise the weekend was pretty damn decent.





02-06-2020 02:02 PM
Java Oh and on the programming/networking front.... you have to use THEIR wifi dongle.... It would not recognize any of the ones I had.....

But now it knows its a DC system and will show that on the main screen. And telling it its a vehicle adds an inveter on/off toggle to the front of the other main screen.

02-06-2020 09:37 AM
Java
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockota View Post
Curiosity only...

This has been one of the best builds in this forum for a long time... So looking back, would you do it again? Worth the effort and money? Or would you go a different route?
Absofreakingloutely.

I love this truck, it works REALLY well for us. Would there be some changes doing it again? Yes definitely.

Doing it over:
Shorter, the headroom is nice, but its tall.
Floor heat!!! Hydronic.
I build the kitchen over the flooring, looking back that was dumb. If I ever want to replace it I am screwed.
The ply interior is nice, but heavy. Composite with veneer? Maybe. And if ply, paint all the edges with epoxy resin before install. water gets EVERYWHERE.
Different water heater.
Different wheels and tire maybe. Id like to try some 20" but its $$$ just to try. Not sure they would be better.
Keep it lighter in general. Not sure its really possible with keeping all the amenities. (smaller body and not plate steel floor would help)
I wish someone made a window without ALU frames. I would consider the Arctic Tern, but you have to design around their sizes.

All that being what it is, I love this thing. Its really really good. If I was to do a V3 ever it would be smaller for just the wife and I when the kid is out of the house. But I likely wont. If this one is still alive it will work fine.
02-06-2020 09:04 AM
rockota Curiosity only...

This has been one of the best builds in this forum for a long time... So looking back, would you do it again? Worth the effort and money? Or would you go a different route?
02-05-2020 12:22 PM
Java Yeah I really should have.... But explaining what to do seemed harder than just doing it. But I am so sore..... I think I bruised everything from my nipples up, front and back....
02-05-2020 12:13 PM
aczlan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Java View Post
I am so freaking sore. What idiot designed this fucking truck?!?!?!

48" deep, 9" wide.... My wires have to run at the VERY back edge.... Put both arms over your head, shimmy in, brace feet against other wall, breathe out and push.... Ouch. I am not a small person...



After drilling two holes (because the first one was too small.....) Feed long stiff wire through and try to hit the hole in the upper shelf. Curse repeatedly. But I got it, take one VE direct cable, one power cable, and one ethernet, and hope like hell you can get it back thru the little hole.


[/img]
That is where you have one of the kids go in there and feed the wire for you. Let them earn their keep and their travel time in truck

Aaron Z

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
02-05-2020 12:08 PM
Java
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarterKaft View Post
Looks like 48 hours of storage with SD card in Color Control



edit: I need to re-read that, kind of looks like with larger SD or USB card much more data log is available than the internal memory of 48 hours?
Yes I think its 48 internal, and more with SD, cant use too large and SD as it must be FAT32, not exFAt32.
02-05-2020 12:02 PM
CarterKaft
Quote:
Originally Posted by Java View Post
I don't think it stores/uploads when back online, that section just goes missing.

But yes that's the system.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Looks like 48 hours of storage with SD card in Color Control

Quote:
Data logging
When connected to the internet, all data is sent to the VRM Portal. When there is no internet
connection available, the CCGX will store the data internally, up to 48 hours. By inserting a micro SDcard or USB stick, more data can be stored. These files can then be uploaded to the VRM Portal, or
offline converted with the VictronConnect app, for analysis.
edit: I need to re-read that, kind of looks like with larger SD or USB card much more data log is available than the internal memory of 48 hours?
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