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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-09-2019 11:03 AM
lunacy Some of your story is part of the reason why I just sold my 2017 and bought a 1992 Dodge D250 Cummins. After just 2 years in my 17 there were some things in it already more worn out than this 92 I just got. Taking it to the dealer for service, recalls, etc you lose your truck for multiple days and half the time it works worse after they messed with it than before.
10-09-2019 07:04 AM
beakie
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelerfreak View Post
Tech is full of shit on all of that. As you found out from the trans shop, the interval for a flush is much shorter, especially if you tow often. Ford gives a recommendation of a lifetime fluid because as long as it lasts the warranty period that is all they give a fuck about. Beyond that and it's on the poor sap that believed their change intervals.
They also got rid of the dipstick to save a few pennies a truck and it was not to benefit an owner, especially one that maintains their truck.
well that was a Ford tech.
the actual tranny shop tech did not agree, and said much the same as you stated.



I don't know if a flush/change would have caused the corrosion issuee to fail earlier or been found at all. Overall I was just ticked off that ALL maintenance had been done at/by the dealer, and they did not see/notice/recommend any problems with the lines during "inspections"

I like to think I am proactive with repairs before they become problems, and would have OK'd new lines before they failed... opposed to the shit show we just dealt with.



I had wanted to get 10yrs out of my truck, 6.5yrs & 143K km later and I've put close to $6kCdn into repairs, it has me rethinking the 10yr goal. Next year I may be truck shopping.

Also thinking an F250 gasser may be a better option. I don't tow/haul near this trucks max, nor will I, but if a 3/4 ton is built a little tougher/robust I'd spend the extra for piece of mind... and hope to get 10yrs out of that.
10-09-2019 06:12 AM
wheelerfreak
Quote:
Originally Posted by beakie View Post
Ford used to perform trans fluid flush & change @ 100k... in last 7+ years they moved to 240k for the same service. Tech explains they got rid of the dipstick because it would rust anyway, and this way people also can't overfill the ATF (which would happen often enough to warrant removing it apparently) i

Tech is full of shit on all of that. As you found out from the trans shop, the interval for a flush is much shorter, especially if you tow often. Ford gives a recommendation of a lifetime fluid because as long as it lasts the warranty period that is all they give a fuck about. Beyond that and it's on the poor sap that believed their change intervals.
They also got rid of the dipstick to save a few pennies a truck and it was not to benefit an owner, especially one that maintains their truck.
10-09-2019 01:37 AM
DMG
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prozon View Post
Your story finishes off my lack of faith in dealerships.

My girlfriends grandparents bought an 04 Dodge Durango new. Always serviced on time at the dealership. One day out of no where, rod knock. 120k on engine. No leaks. Etc. Dealer claimed they wouldnít discount/fix because itís uncommon. Come to find out thereís more blown up 5.7 Hemi Durangoís then there are running ones.

You would think initial purchase and years of money spent on maintenance would earn some kind of loyalty care. Just goes to show, itís better to take your car to a cheaper local shop,
It is better to take your car to a cheaper local shop but 120k is so far out of warranty that expecting any warranty help is pretty crazy.
10-08-2019 08:41 PM
beakie
Quote:
Originally Posted by 87manche View Post
the service interval thing pisses me off.
like "lifetime" fluids.
just tell me what it actually takes to make it live, not what you put down for the cost of ownership competition.

the cost of ownership is exactly what the tech @ trans shop said was the reason for doing it.

lifetime fluids, sealed/maintenance free trannies, etc... all to lower the cost of ownership a few hundred $$ per year.

get it beyond the warranty period then who gives a fawk.
10-08-2019 05:48 PM
87manche the service interval thing pisses me off.

like "lifetime" fluids.

just tell me what it actually takes to make it live, not what you put down for the cost of ownership competition.
10-08-2019 10:58 AM
Prozon Your story finishes off my lack of faith in dealerships.

My girlfriends grandparents bought an 04 Dodge Durango new. Always serviced on time at the dealership. One day out of no where, rod knock. 120k on engine. No leaks. Etc. Dealer claimed they wouldnít discount/fix because itís uncommon. Come to find out thereís more blown up 5.7 Hemi Durangoís then there are running ones.

You would think initial purchase and years of money spent on maintenance would earn some kind of loyalty care. Just goes to show, itís better to take your car to a cheaper local shop,
10-07-2019 07:40 PM
beakie just to put this subject to bed...

truck went to local tranny shop, they pulled and opened it up.

the short distance driven post leak was enough to cause damge.

full rebuild;
overhaul kit, pump, torque converter, filter, system flush and fluid... and labour to the tune of $4kCdn.



shop says Ford is full of shit advising fluid flush & change @ 240k opposed to old standard @ 100k.
they said to do it @ 60-80k especially if we continue towing as we do.





lessons learned for next truck purchase;
rust spray the shit out of engine bay area
trans fluid changes @ 100k or less, regardless what manual says
double check fluid leaks, burned up old atf resembles fresh engine oil
don't drive at all if trans leak suspected
ensure warranty covers actual/possible issues, not dealer imaginary ones



probably going to move to a F250 3/4ton truck in 1 - 3.5 years
09-08-2019 06:42 PM
beakie
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonmt View Post
Did you ever straight out ask the service writer / service manager / dealer principal for goodwill on either repair they suggested?

Likely too late now as you would have likely had more luck with a goodwill request while the vehicle was still there but you tick more than a few boxes for goodwill:
  1. You bought the vehicle there.
  2. You had the vehicle serviced there.
  3. You could argue that the underlying cause of the failure should have been caught during the multi-point inspection called out as recommended at every oil change in the Scheduled Maintenance section of your owners manual (cooler hoses are specifically called out). You can also point out that either of the Ford maintenance plans specifically references the multi-point inspection. https://www.ford.ca/cmslibs/content/...ect%20FMPP.pdf
when I spoke directly to the tech @ first dealer (originally towed too, 4hrs away) I asked if this failure could have been found during routine inspection & maintenance. he said probably not, unless being looked for specifically. surface corrosion would not look awfilly different than "rusted through and about to fail" corrosion during a routine look over.


I didn't outright ask for any discount, I just said "hey I bought it here, serviced here and would like to continue... give me a reason"
they said they gave me a break on the bill, however their "break" was $40 less than the other dealers quote and they said they quoted 4hrs but it'd probably be 3 - 3.5hrs.

between all this, and finding out they do not cover turbo repairs under their "lifetime engine warranty" neither my good friend or I are overly pleased with them.
we both opted for the ecoboost because they originally spoke about covering the engine including turbos as they were "internally splashed &/or lubricated"... but it turns out the actual verbage doesn't cover turbos at all... unless the failure ia caused by a part that is covered under the warranty.


anyway, truck is home, shifts a little rough but until I have time to get it to the trans shop, it isn't going anywhere anyway.
09-07-2019 11:17 AM
DMG
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwilliamshs View Post
I see your point. However, since we're talking about a dealer service department not a state inspection...
I bet the light was not working.
09-07-2019 11:01 AM
jasonmt Did you ever straight out ask the service writer / service manager / dealer principal for goodwill on either repair they suggested?

Likely too late now as you would have likely had more luck with a goodwill request while the vehicle was still there but you tick more than a few boxes for goodwill:
  1. You bought the vehicle there.
  2. You had the vehicle serviced there.
  3. You could argue that the underlying cause of the failure should have been caught during the multi-point inspection called out as recommended at every oil change in the Scheduled Maintenance section of your owners manual (cooler hoses are specifically called out). You can also point out that either of the Ford maintenance plans specifically references the multi-point inspection. https://www.ford.ca/cmslibs/content/...ect%20FMPP.pdf
09-07-2019 10:02 AM
87manche
Quote:
Originally Posted by beakie View Post
no it doesn't matter to me, however my buddy with a '16 who purchased the extended warranty through "TriCare" was NOT impressed to learn this issue would NOT have been covered under his "bumper to bumper" warranty.
Our dealer sells the TriCare over the Ford extended warranty with the pitch being "it covers more"


anyway, no it doesn't matter now, just food for thought for anyone with similar trucks.

thing is with the trans inspection, they "check off" that trans Fluid is OK @ each service... however no physical parts of the trans or cooler lines are apparently looked at.
dealer is full of shit, they just don't get a kickback as big on the ford one.

the ford extended warranty is tits. They did several grand worth of work to my brothers 6.ohno under the extended warranty, I think it cost him like a hundred bucks for the deductible.
09-06-2019 11:31 PM
mwilliamshs
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMG View Post
The problem with that is that you canít tell people to replace every rusty part on a vehicle in the rust belt. Until they start leaking, they are ok. I canít fail a car for state safety inspection because of rusty brake or fuel lines unless they are leaking. I can note it on the R.O. but no one cares.
I see your point. However, since we're talking about a dealer service department not a state inspection...

Quote:
Originally Posted by beakie View Post
...For comparison, I have 2 work slips that they inspected and advised replacing the license plate bulb & wiring harness because of corrosion (one covered under warranty) so why would they not have done the same for trans lines... if they were actually looking things over?...
09-06-2019 06:22 PM
DMG
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwilliamshs View Post
Doesn't matter now, does it?

If they indicated on a maintenance log or service ticket that the transmission had been inspected recently then I'd say you have a claim to at least an adjustment of the repair bill. Even a quick visual inspection should turn up rusted cooler lines. The repair cost of said lines may not have been covered by the maintenance agreement but you should have at least been advised of their condition upon inspection.
The problem with that is that you canít tell people to replace every rusty part on a vehicle in the rust belt. Until they start leaking, they are ok. I canít fail a car for state safety inspection because of rusty brake or fuel lines unless they are leaking. I can note it on the R.O. but no one cares.
09-06-2019 06:06 PM
beakie
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwilliamshs View Post
Doesn't matter now, does it?

If they indicated on a maintenance log or service ticket that the transmission had been inspected recently then I'd say you have a claim to at least an adjustment of the repair bill. Even a quick visual inspection should turn up rusted cooler lines. The repair cost of said lines may not have been covered by the maintenance agreement but you should have at least been advised of their condition upon inspection.
no it doesn't matter to me, however my buddy with a '16 who purchased the extended warranty through "TriCare" was NOT impressed to learn this issue would NOT have been covered under his "bumper to bumper" warranty.
Our dealer sells the TriCare over the Ford extended warranty with the pitch being "it covers more"


anyway, no it doesn't matter now, just food for thought for anyone with similar trucks.

thing is with the trans inspection, they "check off" that trans Fluid is OK @ each service... however no physical parts of the trans or cooler lines are apparently looked at.
09-06-2019 05:11 PM
Cooter_76 Sounds like a bad situation, any way you slice it.
This is probably not related to your specific situation, but I had a recent transmission issue with my 2013 5.0 F-150. Was taking off from a stoplight and noticed the truck was real sluggish. No CEL or any other warnings, but the transmission seemed to shift only between 3rd and 5th. Odometer was blank and the speedometer wasnít registering.
Limped it into a local dealership and they replaced the ďLead Frame Connector ExtensionĒ under Recall #19N01. Apparently itís a wiring harness on the transmission that has been known to fail. No charge to me, and the truck has 130k miles. I also had to replace the alternator recently, but other than that, the truck has been problem-free.
You might post this issue at Ford-trucks.com. Iíve seen Ford representatives chime in there with offers to help with other problems people have posted.
Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
09-06-2019 12:35 PM
mwilliamshs
Quote:
Originally Posted by beakie View Post
...As for the warranty, I'm still waiting for clarification on whether the original leak would have been covered by extended warranty... being corrosion they couldn't say for sure YES or NO. If the line had burst, a joint had failed, or other "manufacturer defect" ya sure... but failure due to corrosion wasn't clear...
Doesn't matter now, does it?

If they indicated on a maintenance log or service ticket that the transmission had been inspected recently then I'd say you have a claim to at least an adjustment of the repair bill. Even a quick visual inspection should turn up rusted cooler lines. The repair cost of said lines may not have been covered by the maintenance agreement but you should have at least been advised of their condition upon inspection.
09-05-2019 09:16 AM
beakie
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwilliamshs View Post
Simply put, yes.

You bought a truck with a warranty. You had the opportunity to buy an extension of that warranty but refused. So now, you own a truck without a warranty. It is in fact unrealistic to expect warranty coverage without a warranty.

I would get it from the dealer to an ordinary garage. Clear any codes. Disconnect the battery. Wait a day. Charge the battery for that day. Reconnect battery. Clear any codes. Check trans fluid. Fill if below full. Drive it. If it shifts erratically or throws codes, take it to the trans shop.

Was transmission service part of your maintenance package? Is there a transmission service they should have performed by now? Did they? Did they document the fluid level at that time?
Ford used to perform trans fluid flush & change @ 100k... in last 7+ years they moved to 240k for the same service. Tech explains they got rid of the dipstick because it would rust anyway, and this way people also can't overfill the ATF (which would happen often enough to warrant removing it apparently)
Trans service specifically was not part of maintenance, it was just another part of regular maintenance... if it was required. But if I look at almost every work slip they "check marked" the trans inspection & service box... I would think that would cover inspecting the lines, but maybe not.

For comparison, I have 2 work slips that they inspected and advised replacing the license plate bulb & wiring harness because of corrosion (one covered under warranty) so why would they not have done the same for trans lines... if they were actually looking things over?


As for the warranty, I'm still waiting for clarification on whether the original leak would have been covered by extended warranty... being corrosion they couldn't say for sure YES or NO. If the line had burst, a joint had failed, or other "manufacturer defect" ya sure... but failure due to corrosion wasn't clear.



I do understand I am not owed anything, I rolled the dice and here I am. Just more of a "after all the services and inspections, why would they not have looked at or advised the lines looked rough?"
considering all the other little insignificant things they did look at and replace over the years.

truck will be coming home tonight/tomorrow, I will do as advised here, thanks.
09-04-2019 11:59 PM
mwilliamshs
Quote:
Originally Posted by beakie View Post
...am I being unrealistic to expect some coverage/help from Ford?..
Simply put, yes.

You bought a truck with a warranty. You had the opportunity to buy an extension of that warranty but refused. So now, you own a truck without a warranty. It is in fact unrealistic to expect warranty coverage without a warranty.

I would get it from the dealer to an ordinary garage. Clear any codes. Disconnect the battery. Wait a day. Charge the battery for that day. Reconnect battery. Clear any codes. Check trans fluid. Fill if below full. Drive it. If it shifts erratically or throws codes, take it to the trans shop.

Was transmission service part of your maintenance package? Is there a transmission service they should have performed by now? Did they? Did they document the fluid level at that time?
09-04-2019 06:57 PM
beakie
Quote:
Originally Posted by landen300 View Post
I'd be really surprised if they did anything for you being over the time for the powertrain warranty and so close on mileage, but I hope they help you.

It sounds to me like they don't know what to do to the trans if they think a valve body -OR- seals in the trans which I'm assuming means seals that hold pressure to clutches and things...
You could maybe take it to a reputable transmission shop and see what they say for a second opinion.
I just don't feel like dealers really know their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to stuff like diesel engines and transmissions.
Taking it to an expert might behoove you.
The valve body would be a cheaper/easier thing to have checked. If heat warped the housing and caused valves to hang, there should be evidence of that to a skilled trans guy.
got email from dealer advising;
replace valve body
gaskets
filter
bulk connector (hand written, not exactly sure)
fluid
seal
$1700

OR

replace transmission
$6000

after getting off the line with dealer I called Mister Transmission (not a lot of trans specific places round here, but this place has very good reviews)

he suggested replacing a "computer" of some kind, I'm misquoting as usual as I don't know the lingo, but he doesn't feel valve bodies and/or seals are normal after what I described happened. but either way he sees this issue (or similar) often enough that he doesn't think Ford is advising the best fix.



I'll have to see if it's drivable, or in need of a tow again... this escapade is getting my monies worth from CAA atleast.
09-04-2019 04:47 PM
DMG I would get it back from the dealer and run it for a bit.
09-04-2019 01:37 PM
landen300 I'd be really surprised if they did anything for you being over the time for the powertrain warranty and so close on mileage, but I hope they help you.

It sounds to me like they don't know what to do to the trans if they think a valve body -OR- seals in the trans which I'm assuming means seals that hold pressure to clutches and things...
You could maybe take it to a reputable transmission shop and see what they say for a second opinion.
I just don't feel like dealers really know their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to stuff like diesel engines and transmissions.
Taking it to an expert might behoove you.
The valve body would be a cheaper/easier thing to have checked. If heat warped the housing and caused valves to hang, there should be evidence of that to a skilled trans guy.
09-04-2019 12:59 PM
beakie
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMG View Post
It was low on fluid so it slipped. Probably fine. Trans cooler lines rust out all the time in areas where they Salt or CC the roads.
well, just got a call from dealer...

all work has been performed, they test drove it and found the trans still has issues, and new codes.

tech has now advised replacing valve bodies & seals in trans... to the tune of an additional $1700 on top of work already done.

I told them I would call back, I wasn't happy and was in no mood to talk or decide what to do.


I'm pretty disgusted with this whole ordeal.

1. the trans slipped twice out of the blue, no noticable leak noticed in cursory hands & knees look see.

2. trans slipped 3rd time while pulling away from campsite with camper in tow.

2.1 all slips were dif days, once in gear no "issues" were apparent.


3. 10mins down the road, wrench & CEL pop up, check for leak & find what appears to be engine oil. I know ATF is red and understand it may darken with time... this fluid looked brown, like engine oil brown, especially <3k after last oil change.

4. check engine oil, looks ok, but add 500ml because it's parked on slope towards dipstick... if "ok" than may be "low" if/when parked flat.

5. can not check trans fluid... no dipstick.

6. 5mins down the road, wrench & CEL & "low oil pressure" warnings all pop up

7. from "oil pressure" warning to pulled over and stopped travelled maybe 100m, turned engine off. only drove again 30mins later to pull ahead 20m so buddy could hook up to trailer while waiting for tow.





am I being unrealistic to expect some coverage/help from Ford?

bought new from this dealer
bought FMPP (prepaid maintenance upto 8yr/150k kilometers... have one more service before 150k is up... currently just under 143k)
did NOT buy extended warranty as dealer advertised lifetime engine warranty (my fuck up here) and I expwcted trans NOT to be an issue.
all maintenance done at dealer, and only previous repair was broken driver side exh stud, causing manifold warped & replaced.


I figure other than extended warranty I've done all I could, even when leaking I inspected and remedied what I could.

any thoughts?
09-02-2019 08:43 PM
[486]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwilliamshs View Post
Europe has sent just as much of their scrap steel to China as the US has. A roll of galvanized hydraulic line used by ANY automaker is likely to have Made In China on it now if not 5 years ago. The aluminum F150 was partially a result of high steel prices making the upcharge to aluminum less of an issue.
the better euro shit uses cupronickel
kind of like how ford used stainless since the '80s on fuel lines
09-02-2019 08:35 PM
mwilliamshs Europe has sent just as much of their scrap steel to China as the US has. A roll of galvanized hydraulic line used by ANY automaker is likely to have Made In China on it now if not 5 years ago. The aluminum F150 was partially a result of high steel prices making the upcharge to aluminum less of an issue.
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