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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-22-2020 12:47 PM
MrSammi I have an '02 Tacoma w/Marlin 4.7 to the factory chain drive t-case and an A340f Auto (5.29 axle gears w/37's). In low, low, 1st, at idle it pulls through the brakes... at ~1/2 MPH or less. I suspect the engine is not putting out full torque rating at idle, so I'm not worried about it. When I crawl with it, I frequently use the 4.7 by itself for speed/control and sometimes I crawl with low-low at idle to mild throttle and that is all it needs to move over the nastiest obstacle. I don't like and avoid mud, and would be using the chain case low range or high range in mud or slippery surfaces anyways. Steep extended downhill I use low, low and start in 1st; once I get tired of how slow it is, I can shift to 2nd or 3rd seamlessly (lock out overdrive) without scaring myself or passengers and have excellent downhill hold-back and control. I like having the 4.7 or 2.56 choice. I'm aware that if I mash the throttle and shift into gear, bad things will happen; I don't do that. The only times I've ever had any high RPM use is showing how slow it is or moving the 20 feet to the next obstacle and too lazy to shift the 4.7 out. In 12 years of moderate to very difficult (wherever you can crawl full body) I've broken one front hub from the extra torque provided by the low-low combination, and that was a stupid mistake on my part. At home I frequently use the low-low-1st to self extract my tractor from it's predicament in the mud; at idle. If it went full throttle, the truck is going under 5 MPH, so I figure I can catch it and gently shift to Neutral and it usually stops within a few feet.

I used to run a Samurai with pretty low gearing and it would provide a possible 9000 ft-lbs to the sub 1" axle shafts. Only broke one once and on flat ground with no throttle engaged; pretty sure the lock-rite caused that one. Drive like you know your rig and don't feel like fixing it and mostly you won't have the kinds of issues worried about in this thread. I've broken steering boxes, leaf springs, other unfortunate trail problems, but drive train hasn't been an issue.
01-14-2020 07:58 AM
YotaAtieToo
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockota View Post
I'm not sure there's been many documented cases (no pun intended) of the 4.7 exploding the chain drive... But, it doesn't really matter...
Not saying the case is weak. But putting 4.7x's the torque through any case isn't something that I would do on my rig. Like I said, I like to use 4.7 gear for a more wheel speed or thrashing around in the snow.
01-14-2020 07:29 AM
rockota
Quote:
Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo View Post
Right, and people who wheel hard have been putting atlas' in them even longer

I like 4.7 by itself when you need a little more wheel speed. Eventually, the rear case will give.
I'm not sure there's been many documented cases (no pun intended) of the 4.7 exploding the chain drive... But, it doesn't really matter...
01-13-2020 07:56 PM
rapier46 I’ve had 4.7 crawl boxes in front of factory chain cases in my 2 Tacoma for the last 8 years, has been good to me so far. But, I also try to drive gently sometimes.
01-13-2020 07:37 PM
clb 017
Yer all pussies!
-1:1 is where it's at!
01-13-2020 06:53 PM
YotaAtieToo
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockota View Post
people have been running 4.7's in front of taco cases for over a decade.

is 4.7+2.57 necessary with an auto? Probably not. Would I do it? No. 2.28+2.57+auto has been more than low enough for anything I've ever done.
Right, and people who wheel hard have been putting atlas' in them even longer

I like 4.7 by itself when you need a little more wheel speed. Eventually, the rear case will give.
01-13-2020 06:17 PM
rockota people have been running 4.7's in front of taco cases for over a decade.

is 4.7+2.57 necessary with an auto? Probably not. Would I do it? No. 2.28+2.57+auto has been more than low enough for anything I've ever done.
01-13-2020 05:52 PM
YotaAtieToo
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb 017 View Post
Why not run the 4.7 under and the t case direct?


Runnin the con and not using the brakes like the heeps ROCKS!
But yea I run 3rd 4th low under most days, until I get behind a jeep.
But I'm old and slow
Because you're putting 4.7x's the torque through a chain drive tcase, without any reduction behind it. Just like everyone says not to put the 4.7s in the craw box with dual gear drive cases. Heck, people even say to try to not use 2.28 only with a crawl box.

You have a manual? If so, its really not even the same conversion.
01-13-2020 04:23 PM
clb 017
Quote:
Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo View Post
Funny how every rig but a Toyota does everything with just 4:1, then you come in here and you NEED 250:1 or you can't wheel

The thing I don't like about the 4.7 taco box is that the 4.7 is such a useful gear and I wouldn't want to be using just the 4.7 with the rear in low all the time.

I really think the 5.88:1 will be plenty. Even the stock low in our 96 4runner is pretty good for most things.
Why not run the 4.7 under and the t case direct?


Runnin the con and not using the brakes like the heeps ROCKS!
But yea I run 3rd 4th low under most days, until I get behind a jeep.
But I'm old and slow
01-13-2020 03:28 PM
xdaltonx
Quote:
Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo View Post
Funny how every rig but a Toyota does everything with just 4:1, then you come in here and you NEED 250:1 or you can't wheel <a href="https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/images/smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0" alt="" title="flipoff2" >:-)</a>

The thing I don't like about the 4.7 taco box is that the 4.7 is such a useful gear and I wouldn't want to be using just the 4.7 with the rear in low all the time.

I really think the 5.88:1 will be plenty. Even the stock low in our 96 4runner is pretty good for most things.
And thats what im leaning towards. Ill have my stock low 2.57, then i can double down with the 2.28 if needed. If i feel i need more ill regear to the 4.7.
01-13-2020 03:09 PM
YotaAtieToo Funny how every rig but a Toyota does everything with just 4:1, then you come in here and you NEED 250:1 or you can't wheel

The thing I don't like about the 4.7 taco box is that the 4.7 is such a useful gear and I wouldn't want to be using just the 4.7 with the rear in low all the time.

I really think the 5.88:1 will be plenty. Even the stock low in our 96 4runner is pretty good for most things.
01-13-2020 01:31 PM
xdaltonx On which part? The inchworm?
I had talked to trevor at marlin crawler who said they may start offering the tacobox with the inchworm adapters, as marlin is out of stock on theirs and doesnt have an eta of them being back in stock. So i figured if they were gonna do that why not try to go through inchworm directly. I just looked up inchworm and found their number online, called it and jim answered. Talked a minute about what i was looking to do. And he asked for my email. Said he was looking to get some distributor lined up as he wasnt sure he wanted to do direct sales. And that he would email me some more info. That was wednesday the 8th. I havent heard anything back yet though.
01-13-2020 11:11 AM
clb 017
Quote:
Originally Posted by xdaltonx View Post
Ive got a better understanding of how the tc works now and i get the varying in reduction from it. It essentially becomes a 1:1 at stall speed. I wasnt understanding that part at first.
Ill be doing a 4wu 3 link. Its gonna be my crawler. I was planning on keeping the chain case to keep driver drop and not deal with the exhaust thats on the passenger side.
As for gearing my thought was go 2.28 in reduction box to keep from having the extra torque running through the chain case. Figure in double low itd be close to my manual in 4.7..
If i hate it i could always full the reduction box and add 4.7s later.
I actually spoke with jim from inchworm last wednesday, and he is working on getting some distributors to start selling again.
No shitt?????
Care to elaborate?
That's sweet.
01-13-2020 11:07 AM
clb 017
Quote:
Originally Posted by yotota View Post
I could be mistaken, but I poked around a bit and it looks like the business entity may still exist in California. Unless someone else was operating under the same name.
That's most likely t.g. In fresno...
Cuz Jim went back east\ mid west.
01-13-2020 09:33 AM
xdaltonx Ive got a better understanding of how the tc works now and i get the varying in reduction from it. It essentially becomes a 1:1 at stall speed. I wasnt understanding that part at first.
Ill be doing a 4wu 3 link. Its gonna be my crawler. I was planning on keeping the chain case to keep driver drop and not deal with the exhaust thats on the passenger side.
As for gearing my thought was go 2.28 in reduction box to keep from having the extra torque running through the chain case. Figure in double low itd be close to my manual in 4.7..
If i hate it i could always full the reduction box and add 4.7s later.
I actually spoke with jim from inchworm last wednesday, and he is working on getting some distributors to start selling again.
01-13-2020 09:29 AM
yotota
Quote:
Originally Posted by 06 H3 View Post
If the auto can handle the stress if you locked your TC at super low RPM crawling would that give it that manual direct drive type feel? It would drive through the brakes but you could use a TCC lock up switch like a clutch, on and off.
Yes and no...

When the TC is slipping, there's a difference in speed between the input and output RPM. The only time you can safely lock up a TC (that has a lockup function) is when the RPMs are the same... Which is above the stall speed. So yeah, once you get the RPMs above stall speed you can lock up the TC and have complete control over the drivetrain. You'd have to be careful to not stall the engine but it would be fun to try.

I know that you could easily wire in a lockup switch on a Jeep's AW4 trans, I never looked into this for Yotas but considering an A340 is virtually the same internals I bet it can be done. A quick bit of Google search shows that something similar may work for your 4L60e. Give 'er a try and let us know!
01-13-2020 09:20 AM
yotota
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb 017 View Post
Yotota, you say Inchworm still exists as an entity..
Yes the corporation was sold\merged\aquired by lowrange., Then bought out ultimately by t.g.
Is that what you mean?
Or is there more to the story?
T.g. Quit supporting the "lefty\verso"
And marlins version... Well M.C.!!!!
I could be mistaken, but I poked around a bit and it looks like the business entity may still exist in California. Unless someone else was operating under the same name.
01-13-2020 08:44 AM
06 H3 I like this thread, I am a fan of super low range and that might because I am out wheeling a heavy pig of a SAS H3 with a bunch of first gen Toyotas with dual cases and they work well. Rapier, did you use the throttle much at all or were you under 1200 or so rpm crawling the soup bowl?

I am not trying to dereail this thread but I have always wondered if you could reap both the benefits of an auto and manual. The benefits of an auto is some slip and "give" in the drivetrain when bumping obstacles hard but when crawling I have seen the benefit of that direct drive the manual gives. If the auto can handle the stress if you locked your TC at super low RPM crawling would that give it that manual direct drive type feel? It would drive through the brakes but you could use a TCC lock up switch like a clutch, on and off.
01-13-2020 08:26 AM
clb 017 Yotota, you say Inchworm still exists as an entity..
Yes the corporation was sold\merged\aquired by lowrange., Then bought out ultimately by t.g.
Is that what you mean?
Or is there more to the story?
T.g. Quit supporting the "lefty\verso"
And marlins version... Well M.C.!!!!

For the few of us stuck with one (mine sux Yes others love em) do you have some little known knowledge to share?
For the op
It seems the biggest issue with doubling a taco is putting the 4.7 in front of the t case...
For those with traditional duals in the hilux platform it goes against the grain somewhat.
As we can use the reduction box as an underdrive \ direct drive without a twin stick
t case (think bumper to bumper traffic)
without stressing the input ,from what I have read no one is destroying chain cases (the reason the lefty was prototyped more or less) and the inputs seem to hold up to the 4.7 input torque.
All the hype on t.c. "Magic torque" (until lockup is achieved) just adds to the benefits or goes out the window at lockup. Topic for another thread.
All in all any doubled rig is GOOD.
If I hit the lottery I am going 4 Gear atlas (after waiting way to long for delivery!)
01-13-2020 06:57 AM
yotota You will only have slower wheelspeed during the time the TC is slipping, which is from idle to stall speed (2200rpm for a Toyota TC). That's just the same as slipping the clutch on a manual trans truck - in the case of the auto, you'll overheat your trans fluid instead of smoking the clutch.

And it's an accepted fact that the TC Torque Multiplication varies from the maximum at idle, about 2:1 for a Toyota TC, to none at stall speed.

Read this, it's a pretty good description: https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp...ue-converters/

And a little more depth:
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/0808...ue-converters/

Inchworm still exists as an entity, but with no website and no product available I'm not sure they would be my first option. And Marlin is capable of making a good product, but good luck with availability.

Are you set on keeping your chain-drive case? Are you staying IFS? What are the plan and goals for your truck?
01-11-2020 04:14 PM
xdaltonx They own inchworm also<a href="https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Confused" >:-)</a><a href="https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/images/smilies/pissed.gif" border="0" alt="" title="mad3" >:-)</a>
Better order marlin a year in advance if you plan on getting products worth having as the good shit is back ordered every time I call!
<a href="https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/images/smilies/pissed.gif" border="0" alt="" title="mad3" >:-)</a>[/QUOTE]

I spoke with trevor at marlin on Wednesday, and he said inchworm was not part of the trailgear purchasing lowrange, and inchworm is working on getting back in business on his own. And marlin may start offering their tacobox with the inchworm adapter due to the lead times of getting their own adapters.


As far as going atlas, its an option for the a340f, but to go 4speed your looking at almost 5k vs the 2500 of the tacobox. And they are so damn big, fitting them up in the frame rails starts to become quite the job.
01-11-2020 03:07 PM
Black Sheep IIRC the 340f is related to the AW4.

Convert the tail housing and run an NWF box, d300, atlas, 4 spd atlas, etc. Itll be the same, possibly less expensive, and better.
01-11-2020 02:43 PM
clb 017
Quote:
Originally Posted by xdaltonx View Post
Yea ill either use marlins tacobox, or go inchworm. Tg just lacks in quality in my experience, and sucks they own allpro as well now. I see their quality dropping as well.
They own inchworm also
Better order marlin a year in advance if you plan on getting products worth having as the good shit is back ordered every time I call!
01-11-2020 09:33 AM
xdaltonx Yea ill either use marlins tacobox, or go inchworm. Tg just lacks in quality in my experience, and sucks they own allpro as well now. I see their quality dropping as well.
01-11-2020 08:38 AM
rapier46
Quote:
Originally Posted by xdaltonx View Post
That looks comparable to my dual gear cases with 4.7.Definitely not twice as low as them like they were making it seam in that thread i linked.
Thank you for that.
You been running that setup for a while? Any issues with it at all?
Over a year and a half now on the tcases. For the first half of that I had 35s and 4.10s and IFS. Now with 5.38s and 40s itís a little bit lower which I like. Itís not so low that it drives through the brakes. No issue other than using crappy trail gear parts. Go Marlin for sure.
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