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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-20-2020 05:50 PM
Texas97
Quote:
Originally Posted by 87manche View Post
I agree that framing the bump stock thing in a 2nd amendment argument means you have to agree that a piece of plastic is legally defined as a machine gun and that is crazy.

but atf be crazy.

I guess that's the point of being mad about it. Government literally just defined something as something it wasn't and then it was illegal.
Whew. I was worried I was talking to a wall.


But your post is concise and gets to the heart of it. The only way it's going to be overturned is to overturn the machine gun ban. I just don't see the courts overturning it as most judges are too politically motivated to actually begin to understand mechanics as it applies to bump firing and " one trigger pull, one bullet".
01-20-2020 05:37 PM
[486]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 87manche View Post
means you have to agree that a piece of plastic is legally defined as a machine gun and that is crazy.
string has been serialized
wire coathanger and an aluminum can have both been used to make swift links

then there's those 3d printed swift links, but that's kind of less impactful IMO because you need a lot of tooling rather than just a pliers or the ability to tie a knot
01-20-2020 05:32 PM
[486]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Provience View Post
didja see that we've got a trillion dollar deficit with this latest budget?

but by gawd, at least them 18-20 year olds can't buy smokes no more!!
omnibus is not a budget
01-20-2020 05:00 PM
Landslide So much for the has been window licker GI and his anti gun anti 2nd amendment running mate. Who the fawk is your 2020 hero? Y’all scared to say? Closet voter supporters?
01-20-2020 04:46 PM
Juztyn00
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnimalMother View Post
Everyone can talk about how awesome libertarians are on paper but let's see a candidate that's embodies all these stances. Gary Johnson sure as shit wasn't it.

https://youtu.be/TW5gQo43ay4
This..... so much this. Find me a Charismatic, electable libertarian that actually has libertarian views and maybe some of us will get on the bandwagon. Heck how about simply some candidates for offices other than the presidency. Lets see some libertarian mayors and governors to prove proof of concept.
01-20-2020 04:40 PM
87manche
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas97 View Post
actually, the bump stock was reclassified as a machine gun on its own, which since it had literally no impact on the function of a firearm, was completely ludicrous.

The safe act put limits on and regulated anything deemed an "assault weapon" (among other things), and since that infringed on and regulated actual firearms and the processes around possessing them, its clearly a second amendment infringement, as well as several others, including the 4th amendment and 5th amendment.

If you want to have a discussion about how the treatment of actual machine guns and the restrictions on them are violations on the second amendment, then i'm all for it, because thats factual. But just because the government defines something a certain way, doesn't mean it actually is that thing.

if something is unconstitutional, does it deserve less or more outrage depending on what Amendments to the BOR it violates? IE, the bump stock ban is unconstitutional, so does it matter what portion of the constitution it violates? or are we only really concerned and outraged about the 2nd amendment and no others?


remember, this is all just food for thought. im not dismissing how wrong any of these laws are, but maybe trying to get people to reflect on what rights the laws violate and where outrage should be placed.
I agree that framing the bump stock thing in a 2nd amendment argument means you have to agree that a piece of plastic is legally defined as a machine gun and that is crazy.

but atf be crazy.

I guess that's the point of being mad about it. Government literally just defined something as something it wasn't and then it was illegal.
01-20-2020 04:35 PM
87manche
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADChevy4x4 View Post
Yes, and the SAFE act likely has the highest rate of non compliance by citizens and law enforcement of any gun law in the US....
100% doesn't fucking matter.

law exists. eventually it will be enforced.
01-20-2020 02:43 PM
Texas97
Quote:
Originally Posted by will12785 View Post
The "bump stock ban" classified any gun with a bump stock as a "machine gun" making it subject to federal regulation. Federal regulations which some would deam to be a 2nd amendment violation.

The NYS safe act did the same thing by classifying any gun with certain features as an "assault weapon" making it subject to the rules of the safe act.

So if the bump stock ban isn't an infringement on the second amendment how can the safe act be?
actually, the bump stock was reclassified as a machine gun on its own, which since it had literally no impact on the function of a firearm, was completely ludicrous.

The safe act put limits on and regulated anything deemed an "assault weapon" (among other things), and since that infringed on and regulated actual firearms and the processes around possessing them, its clearly a second amendment infringement, as well as several others, including the 4th amendment and 5th amendment.

If you want to have a discussion about how the treatment of actual machine guns and the restrictions on them are violations on the second amendment, then i'm all for it, because thats factual. But just because the government defines something a certain way, doesn't mean it actually is that thing.

if something is unconstitutional, does it deserve less or more outrage depending on what Amendments to the BOR it violates? IE, the bump stock ban is unconstitutional, so does it matter what portion of the constitution it violates? or are we only really concerned and outraged about the 2nd amendment and no others?


remember, this is all just food for thought. im not dismissing how wrong any of these laws are, but maybe trying to get people to reflect on what rights the laws violate and where outrage should be placed.
01-20-2020 02:24 PM
ADChevy4x4
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanDiegoCJ View Post
The libertarian stance is also that government (federal, state, & local) has zero place in abortion. That grates on most "conservatives" since they feel they have the right to ban it. Same thing goes for marriage. Most conservatives want marriage to be between one man & one woman. Libertarians say it's none of the government's business what consenting adults choose to do in regards to marriage.
What was the Founding fathers' views on abortion?
01-20-2020 01:40 PM
AnimalMother Everyone can talk about how awesome libertarians are on paper but let's see a candidate that's embodies all these stances. Gary Johnson sure as shit wasn't it.

https://youtu.be/TW5gQo43ay4
01-20-2020 01:06 PM
will12785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas97 View Post
Ny safe act did a lot more than ban bump stocks. Red flag laws, registration, waiting periods, etc.


Those are all infringements.
The "bump stock ban" classified any gun with a bump stock as a "machine gun" making it subject to federal regulation. Federal regulations which some would deam to be a 2nd amendment violation.

The NYS safe act did the same thing by classifying any gun with certain features as an "assault weapon" making it subject to the rules of the safe act.

So if the bump stock ban isn't an infringement on the second amendment how can the safe act be?
01-20-2020 12:47 PM
SanDiegoCJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gslander View Post
The libertarian stance is to end the welfare state and then the border becomes a non issue. Big government retards need to actually read up and understand their stance.

Mises.org
The libertarian stance is also that government (federal, state, & local) has zero place in abortion. That grates on most "conservatives" since they feel they have the right to ban it. Same thing goes for marriage. Most conservatives want marriage to be between one man & one woman. Libertarians say it's none of the government's business what consenting adults choose to do in regards to marriage.
01-20-2020 12:33 PM
Gslander
Quote:
Originally Posted by redsand723 View Post
Until the libertarians pull their head out of their asses with the open border beliefs, they'll never be relevant

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
The libertarian stance is to end the welfare state and then the border becomes a non issue. Big government retards need to actually read up and understand their stance.

Mises.org
01-20-2020 11:55 AM
thumping
Quote:
Originally Posted by will12785 View Post
How? Its no different than the bump stock ban? Since the features are not a gun, and no guns were banned/confiscated/destroyed from their banishment, is it actually a Second Amendment issue or is it really a 9th and 10th amendment issue?
So if someone smacked you in the nuts with a baseball bat...did they really smack you or did the bat?

Does it really fucking matter? You just got smacked in the nuts.
01-20-2020 11:55 AM
ADChevy4x4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas97 View Post
Ny safe act did a lot more than ban bump stocks. Red flag laws, registration, waiting periods, etc.


Those are all infringements.
Yes, and the SAFE act likely has the highest rate of non compliance by citizens and law enforcement of any gun law in the US....
01-20-2020 11:40 AM
Texas97
Quote:
Originally Posted by will12785 View Post
How? Its no different than the bump stock ban? Since the features are not a gun, and no guns were banned/confiscated/destroyed from their banishment, is it actually a Second Amendment issue or is it really a 9th and 10th amendment issue?

Ny safe act did a lot more than ban bump stocks. Red flag laws, registration, waiting periods, etc.


Those are all infringements.
01-20-2020 11:06 AM
will12785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas97 View Post
Of course it's a second amendment issue. Don't twist this into something I never said.
How? Its no different than the bump stock ban? Since the features are not a gun, and no guns were banned/confiscated/destroyed from their banishment, is it actually a Second Amendment issue or is it really a 9th and 10th amendment issue?
01-20-2020 09:59 AM
Texas97
Quote:
Originally Posted by will12785 View Post
So where do you draw the line? Are you familiar with the New York State SAFE act? Do you consider it a second amendment issue?
Of course it's a second amendment issue. Don't twist this into something I never said.
01-20-2020 09:46 AM
will12785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas97 View Post
Obviously it's a second amendment issue, how can you keep and bear arms to protect against tyranny, without ammunition? A firearm is only a blunt striking object, without ammunition.
So where do you draw the line? Are you familiar with the New York State SAFE act? Do you consider it a second amendment issue?
01-20-2020 09:40 AM
Mr. Mindless Draining the swamp like a champ! With the party of freedom and fiscal responsibility! Right? Right!

Fucking clowns.
01-20-2020 09:39 AM
87manche
Quote:
Originally Posted by Provience View Post
didja see that we've got a trillion dollar deficit with this latest budget?

but by gawd, at least them 18-20 year olds can't buy smokes no more!!
and no more flavored nicotine vape juices.

for teh childruns.
01-20-2020 09:32 AM
Provience
Quote:
Originally Posted by 45acp View Post
Personally, I'm torn on this issue.

On the one hand, I'm a big supporter of secure US borders. On the other hand, the national debt is 23 fuck trillion dollars... and I really don't want to jack with climbing a wall 15 years from now when I'm sneaking into Mexico for work.
didja see that we've got a trillion dollar deficit with this latest budget?

but by gawd, at least them 18-20 year olds can't buy smokes no more!!
01-20-2020 09:31 AM
Provience
Quote:
Originally Posted by redsand723 View Post
Until the libertarians pull their head out of their asses with the open border beliefs, they'll never be relevant

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
fortunately, I don't need to agree 100% with a party line to see that they are relevant.
01-20-2020 09:31 AM
Realsquash
Quote:
Originally Posted by 45acp View Post
Personally, I'm torn on this issue.

On the one hand, I'm a big supporter of secure US borders. On the other hand, the national debt is 23 fuck trillion dollars... and I really don't want to jack with climbing a wall 15 years from now when I'm sneaking into Mexico for work.
Don't worry, in 15 years you will just walk into California and get the same thing, but no wall to cross. I wonder when Silicon Valley is going to put a wall and mote around their little kingdom?
01-20-2020 09:24 AM
45acp
Quote:
Originally Posted by redsand723 View Post
Until the libertarians pull their head out of their asses with the open border beliefs, they'll never be relevant

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Personally, I'm torn on this issue.

On the one hand, I'm a big supporter of secure US borders. On the other hand, the national debt is 23 fuck trillion dollars... and I really don't want to jack with climbing a wall 15 years from now when I'm sneaking into Mexico for work.
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