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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-26-2020 08:10 AM
EndlessMtnFab Agreed that HTA is not the only factor. Chainstay has a lot to do with it. And BB height has a bit to do with it too.


But I see your point regarding sag. Wasn't sure and never really thought about it until this post.
02-26-2020 07:00 AM
engineerjoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by EndlessMtnFab View Post
Personally ... I don't fully agree with this. Doesn't make you wrong tho.

East coast woods/XC is very different than stuff out West. Tight, technical trails "need" a fast reacting & nimble steering response. Bombing down hills seems to be the same no matter where you are --- and those situations, a slack head angle is what you want.

Since Flexy is in AZ ... I presume he's going to be able to cruise the trails at a faster pace than I could in PA.

I do agree 100% .... ride some new stuff first. Find some bikes with a slack angle and find some with steeper angles. See what you like.

Different tools for different riding styles. I ride super technical rocky trails, some require trials type moves, and I have no problem with a "slack" HT. But there's no way to avoid the twitchy feeling on a steep HT in some situations. My rigid 29+ SS was a blast on rocky tech PA trails when I lived there, it was 65deg HTA.

I try to keep my speed up and use momentum as much as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EndlessMtnFab View Post
Legit question on that thought.

I was under the presumption that listed angles already accounted for sag on their as delivered/assembled bikes. Obviously ... you change to a 322 mm travel fork --- things change in a hurry.
I have never seen HT angle listed at sag point (because, sag is a preference, and can change between riders).


HT angle is not the only factor that determines how "twitchy" or stable a bike is, but it is a good barometer. The "Trail" of a bike is a combination of HTA, fork offset, and wheel diameter is a better test of the handling characteristics.
With more options in wheel size and fork offset, it's easy to get whatever type of ride you're looking for.
02-25-2020 11:52 AM
EndlessMtnFab
Quote:
Originally Posted by engineerjoe View Post
With a 68deg head tube angle, at sag you'll be closer to 70deg...very twitchy. My 29+ hardtail is at 64deg, 66 at sag.)

Legit question on that thought.

I was under the presumption that listed angles already accounted for sag on their as delivered/assembled bikes. Obviously ... you change to a 322 mm travel fork --- things change in a hurry.
02-25-2020 11:45 AM
EndlessMtnFab
Quote:
Originally Posted by engineerjoe View Post
Also, the Geometry on that frame is dated. If you haven't ridden a bike with modern geo, go hit some bike demos. It will be an eye opening experience. With a 68deg head tube angle, at sag you'll be closer to 70deg...very twitchy. My 29+ hardtail is at 64deg, 66 at sag.

Personally ... I don't fully agree with this. Doesn't make you wrong tho.

East coast woods/XC is very different than stuff out West. Tight, technical trails "need" a fast reacting & nimble steering response. Bombing down hills seems to be the same no matter where you are --- and those situations, a slack head angle is what you want.

Since Flexy is in AZ ... I presume he's going to be able to cruise the trails at a faster pace than I could in PA.


My current bike is a bit too slack for my taste. Miss my old Kona Lava Dome (frame is in the basement). Very quick steering and short chain stays. But I could pick a line thru the rocks like no ones business. I may do a modern update on it .... maybe a 29/26 iteration.

I do agree 100% .... ride some new stuff first. Find some bikes with a slack angle and find some with steeper angles. See what you like.


Here's a few online options from Bikes Direct:

Save up to 60% off new Mountain Bikes - MTB - NEW Gravity HD29 SX EAGLE 1X12 SRAM SX EAGLE 1X12 LongTravel Forks + ALU Anodized Rims Shimano Hydraulic Disk Brake Mountain Bikes in 29er


www.bikeisland.com has a few deals depending on your frame size and what level of cosmetic defects you are willing to put up with.
02-25-2020 10:21 AM
engineerjoe Don't buy a 26", there will be absolutely no resale.

Also, the Geometry on that frame is dated. If you haven't ridden a bike with modern geo, go hit some bike demos. It will be an eye opening experience. With a 68deg head tube angle, at sag you'll be closer to 70deg...very twitchy. My 29+ hardtail is at 64deg, 66 at sag.

Go ride the Soul Cycles that you have and save up for something more modern.

Check Chromag bikes, REEB cycles or Guerrilla Gravity.
If you have to buy something in that price point, check out Marin
https://www.marinbikes.com/bikes/20-san-quentin-1

Oh, and check your email
02-21-2020 06:20 PM
EndlessMtnFab I prefer the build it yourself option.

That's how I build my XXIX Pro. Got a Reynolds 853 frame (29er) for 100 bucks. The guy just wanted the components.

Full Deore XT group. DT240 hubs & Mavic Rims. Reba RL shock. Eaton bar & stem. WTB seat and a generic post. 28 lbs. Cost me $1100 total (at the time).

Ebay and Facebook Marketplace are your friends
02-07-2020 03:10 PM
Dirtrider99x i would stay away from 26" at this point unless you were only interested in bmx track racing or just puttin around the hood.

the 29ers roll over the trails soo much better and is pretty much the standard. unless you're super short a 29er would be the way to roll

27.5 are fun but i think they will be fading out as far as selection in the next few years.
02-03-2020 07:53 PM
94toytruck I mean you could get into a FS like a alloy YT Jeffsy pretty cheap new. Pretty sure they are a bit over 2k, comes in 27.5 or 29.
01-31-2020 07:58 PM
FlexyTJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by donb View Post

Anyway - I would suggest a modern 27.5 full sussy rig if you can swing it price wise. PB just had an article on one for around $2k that they loved. If you are trying to keep it at that $1k price point then a modern geo 27.5 or 29Ē HT from the PB classifieds or FB Marketplace as guys are always upgrading.

Iím on a 3rd Gen Santa Cruz Nomad C that I built up from mostly used stuff last year. It is crazy how much it can do (lift assist to multi hour pedals) and itís dated at this point.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for your input, good food for thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 94toytruck View Post
26 vs. 29 is a huge difference, 26 vs. 27.5 hardly noticeable, 27.5 vs. 29 still a pretty big difference. A 27.5+ is roughly the same OD as a normal 29 though. All of my bikes are 27.5 or 27.5+ except my old Banshee Paradox which is bolted into a trainer with a 700 road tire on it. I personally like 27.5 better, its a stronger wheel, for me I can interchange tires back and forth and I feel its a bit easy to move around. A 29 does have better roll over if your riding rough terrain which is something to really consider.

My Primal is aluminum, its a plus bike the tire absorb a ton. I bought the frame new as a leftover. Everything else was used, cheap or I had it.

Frame-new ebay
Headset-new ebay
Marzocchi NCR350 - used had
Stans Sentrys, Recon 2.8s and cassette - used ebay
Sram XO crank, BB and 32 ring - used
Shimano 11spd der/shifter - used
Chromag BZA bars - used had
Chromag Hifi 35 - new ebay
Grips - freebies
KS LEV - used - ebay
Hope x2 brakes - used had

OK so I had a few more parts than I thought but its a pretty badass bike cheap. I rode it more this year than my Slash by a good bit. Not sure if this link will work... https://www.instagram.com/p/B3algQeH..._web_copy_link
You had most of the parts

Thanks for sharing the build, I like that frame. I still have an old Soul Cycles Titan that I think has pretty similar geometry- was looking for something along those lines but in steel. The Titan I have is beat and is a 26'er- Good wall ornament though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4junk View Post
Looks like a good deal $$ wise. It's hard to answer if it would be a good bike for you, not knowing where you ride. I would say, if you ride where the fat tires would help, a bigger diameter would help more. If the fat tires aren't needed I wouldn't want them. It looks like a fun bike though.
The terrain varies wildly here. I will probably use it mostly on buffed out desert single track (little elevation/smoother) vs. bigger mountain terrain with lots of elevation/rockier.
01-27-2020 06:55 PM
4x4junk Looks like a good deal $$ wise. It's hard to answer if it would be a good bike for you, not knowing where you ride. I would say, if you ride where the fat tires would help, a bigger diameter would help more. If the fat tires aren't needed I wouldn't want them. It looks like a fun bike though.
01-26-2020 07:58 PM
94toytruck
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlexyTJ View Post
I almost feel like the whole wheel size thing 27.5 and 29 is simply a fad to drive sales, which has prevented me from buying any MTB's at all recently. So you think 29" is where it is at?

Care to share the rest of your build on that frame?

I don't see the frame material listed here unless I'm missing something?
https://dartmoor-bikes.com/hardware/...rimal-275-2020
26 vs. 29 is a huge difference, 26 vs. 27.5 hardly noticeable, 27.5 vs. 29 still a pretty big difference. A 27.5+ is roughly the same OD as a normal 29 though. All of my bikes are 27.5 or 27.5+ except my old Banshee Paradox which is bolted into a trainer with a 700 road tire on it. I personally like 27.5 better, its a stronger wheel, for me I can interchange tires back and forth and I feel its a bit easy to move around. A 29 does have better roll over if your riding rough terrain which is something to really consider.

My Primal is aluminum, its a plus bike the tire absorb a ton. I bought the frame new as a leftover. Everything else was used, cheap or I had it.

Frame-new ebay
Headset-new ebay
Marzocchi NCR350 - used had
Stans Sentrys, Recon 2.8s and cassette - used ebay
Sram XO crank, BB and 32 ring - used
Shimano 11spd der/shifter - used
Chromag BZA bars - used had
Chromag Hifi 35 - new ebay
Grips - freebies
KS LEV - used - ebay
Hope x2 brakes - used had

OK so I had a few more parts than I thought but its a pretty badass bike cheap. I rode it more this year than my Slash by a good bit. Not sure if this link will work... https://www.instagram.com/p/B3algQeH..._web_copy_link
01-24-2020 08:21 PM
donb
Talk me outta this- 2018 Jamis Dragonslayer 26"

That Jamis is a 26x3.0 so overall tire height should be close to a 27.5x2.3. The thing is there are way more rim and tire selections now in the 27.5 size. A few years ago I was going to try 26+ on a Turner 5 Spot I had but the tire selection wasnít that great. That bike got stolen so I built up a cheap Breezer Repack 27.5 from PinkBike classifieds.

29íers have been out for a long time so I think they are here to stay. Many years ago I thought they were a gimmick but if you think that going to a 37Ē (29er) tire on your Jeep would do better than a 33 (26Ē) then there is your answer (sort of I know). I remember thinking years ago why 29ers werenít used for DH racing as the taller wheels would make getting thru more technical terrain more easily. That day is here now.

And 650bís have been around for a while too. I remember the start of the 27.5 forum on MTBR and how they were getting knobby tires made for that size (I cannot think of the guyís/builders name) and which suspension forks would fit. I like the 650b size. I rode my friendís MegaTower a few weeks ago and itís a really rad bike but liked getting back on my 27.5. Iím sure I could get used to the wheel size of the 29er but the 27.5 seems just right. EDIT: I just looked it up - Kirk Pacenti in 2007 and some of the original builders like Ritchey made a 650b back in the 70ís. Now that I think of it Diamond Back had a 650b setup in the 80ís when I was shopping for my first mtn bike. More history: https://forums.mtbr.com/27-5/timelin...ry-789577.html

Anyway - I would suggest a modern 27.5 full sussy rig if you can swing it price wise. PB just had an article on one for around $2k that they loved. If you are trying to keep it at that $1k price point then a modern geo 27.5 or 29Ē HT from the PB classifieds or FB Marketplace as guys are always upgrading.

Iím on a 3rd Gen Santa Cruz Nomad C that I built up from mostly used stuff last year. It is crazy how much it can do (lift assist to multi hour pedals) and itís dated at this point.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
01-24-2020 06:28 PM
FlexyTJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94toytruck View Post
It's just a old standard at this point. 27.5 is a gimmick they used to milk to the consumers wallet and rid the scene of a near endless supply of 26" parts. Just like plus bike tire sizes and wide rims are new but I have 35mm wide rims and 2.7-3.0 tires from back in the day still. They change the market standards to keep people spending.


I ride a Dartmoor Primal 27.5+ I built with a new frame and parts sourced off ebay cheap. If I have $700 into I'd be surprised.
I almost feel like the whole wheel size thing 27.5 and 29 is simply a fad to drive sales, which has prevented me from buying any MTB's at all recently. So you think 29" is where it is at?

Care to share the rest of your build on that frame?

I don't see the frame material listed here unless I'm missing something?
https://dartmoor-bikes.com/hardware/...rimal-275-2020
01-22-2020 09:37 PM
94toytruck It's just a old standard at this point. 27.5 is a gimmick they used to milk to the consumers wallet and rid the scene of a near endless supply of 26" parts. Just like plus bike tire sizes and wide rims are new but I have 35mm wide rims and 2.7-3.0 tires from back in the day still. They change the market standards to keep people spending.


I ride a Dartmoor Primal 27.5+ I built with a new frame and parts sourced off ebay cheap. If I have $700 into I'd be surprised.
01-22-2020 05:32 PM
FlexyTJ Yeah, not much love for the 26 anyone I talk to in person either. The frame can take a 27.5+, they have other trims of the same frame with 'em, but double the cost. Not sure the fork that comes on this one will clear a 27.5.

I figured I could swap wheelsets later. Just drawn to the steel I guess I can't find another steel hardtail in that price range unless I'm missing something?
01-21-2020 02:11 PM
94toytruck I think you can do better. that's a really dated bike now. 26 was pretty much dead when that bike can out.
01-21-2020 12:36 PM
hodgiemoto I think you could do way better for that amount of money. 29er hardtail is what all the cool kids are doing. In that price range anyway.
01-19-2020 08:18 AM
FlexyTJ
Talk me outta this- 2018 Jamis Dragonslayer 26"

https://www.jensonusa.com/Jamis-Drag...t-26-Bike-2018

I'm in desperate need of a new MTB - my last most previous MTB is 10 + years old. I'm nothing more than a weekend warrior (if that) any more. I don't want a full suspension bike, had plenty of those over the years and know the virtues of them but looking for simple and steel, hence this.

Other pertinent info- In the midst of moving at the moment and closing on a new house in a week. This will probably sit in the box the next 6 mos + while I wrap up the loose ends on that and getting my stuff and three vehicles moved.

Worth the knee jerk reaction or keep the $900 in my wallet? 699 bike +75 ship + 100 (I think setup/assembly fee, lol, even though it comes in a box).

Positives-
Reynolds Steel
Sorta brand name
I like the SRAM 1X drivetrains
Shimano hydros (albiet cheapies)

Cons-
26'er
Cheap rockshit fork
low end derailleur/shifter
30 lbs!

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