|05-28-2003 07:47 AM|
what you mentioned about the inspection after the footings
and wire mesh being installed are correct. he had the pre-pour
inspection done. then, moved the wire mesh, dug the trenches,
buried the plumbing, and recovered and packed the base. the
wire mesh was re-installed. then the pour was completed.
like I said, it might not be easy, most guys wouldn't do this
type of work. but I know my freind would. his shop in the
middle of summer (PHOENIX-AZ) heat, prob 115 degrees,
the shop if kept closed stays around 75 degrees.... with no
fans or a/c running....... hell, every single wall-ceiling panel is
fully sheet-rocked and textured.... I could live in that shop!
|05-27-2003 07:30 PM|
Sherpa, I dont know how the inspectors do it in other states, but here, the inspector comes after all of the wire mesh and rebar and visqueen is in place but before the slab is poured. This way he can check all of the footings and slab prep and any plumbing prior to pouring concrete. If you were to do it this way, you would have to get the inspectors approval first, then pull up the wire mesh and run the plumbing,then get the slab poured.
The only issue that I ran into since the shop was going to be inhabited was that fiber mesh alone is not approved for living quarters;wire mesh and rebar have to be used in the concrete. We have septic systems here, so I was allowed to use the single septic tank for the house and the shop. The shop is only 100' from the house, so I had the tank put in between the two. I think the big issues dealing with plumbing in auxillary buildings deals more with single family dwelling on one lot. If you do decide to run a business from the shop, you may need to look into having seperate water and electric meters for tax deduction reasons.
|05-27-2003 08:36 AM|
as for putting in a "bathroom" type features, here is what 2 of my
freinds did in different states, at much different times.
Chico, California, approx 1974:
freind had 5 acres. needed a detached garage/shop. by code
definitions, if the "shop" had any major features such as: heat
source, any water supply, or bathroom (toilet) feature, it would
have changed the classification from: AGGI BUILDING, to HOME-
GARAGE. AGGI-building permits/taxes were very cheap. he later
installed a wood buring shop heater, and piped-water for drinking/washing.
Phoenix, AZ. approx 1995:
Old roomate/buddy built his own 30x40 stucco building/shop.
13-foot door on one end for 5th wheel RV. 16' garage door in
center, and single-door on other end..
He "planned" on doing a full bathroom, complete with water-heater, toilet, sink, and shower stall.
The way to do this is to hide all the drain-plumbing under the
concrete-slab just under the surface skin. (like 1/8" under)
make sure you know where every pipe-cap is placed, (not glued).
after clearing past your construction inspections, you can chip-off
the concrete skim, and connect your plumbing and finish your
evidently, installing a toilet/shower makes a big difference in
overall plans for use, and permit fees/taxes........................
one last thing, for my garage, I will install a full-gantry type overhead crane system. even if it is homebuilt.....
|05-23-2003 09:57 PM|
Tom, I built my house last year and lived in a 30x40x12 metal building for almost 6 months. We had plenty of room to store our boxxed up whatnots against a wall. I installed a 4 ton central heat/air unit which was perfect size. The main complaints that the wife had were lack of sound insulation and the bugs and rainfrogs getting in around the overhead doors.
I used a thin insulation that looks like bubble packing w/tinfoil on 1 side. It is great for heat insulation,but horrible for sound insulation. Anything more than a light drizzle of rain and you couldnt hear the tv or anyone on the phone. I thought it was funny. The wife didnt. So, my best advice is to properly insulate the building for noise. Also pay close attention to the future neighbors before you buy. I am ready to sell my house right now because of an 80 year old neighbor who swears I am running a commercial business any time he sees a Jeep or something pull up in the driveway. Our restrictions dont allow commercial businesses, but they do allow freakin hog farms if I desired. I still havent figured that one out.
|05-23-2003 09:12 PM|
My old shop had floor drains and the floor was shaped to flow into them. It was great for clean up but it really sucks not having a flat level piece of concrete to build stuff on. If you're going to slope your shop for easy hose out I'd recomend keeping a strip in the middle that is flat and level to build off of. Nothing worse then taking lots of time building something square then finding out your floor is off.
|05-23-2003 06:02 PM|
Bigger is better.
Here is my dad's backyard workshop....70x70 with 14 10x20 bays (7 on each side) and a 30 x 70 open area down the middle.
|05-23-2003 03:20 PM|
How do you like the Jet band Saw? I've been thinking of one, but have yet to really decide what band saw to go for. This one is actually leading the pack...
|05-10-2002 02:38 PM|
1800 total. The shop area is 30'x30' and the "barn" is 40'x60'. The epoxy floor is working well -- so far no burns from welding. It is harder than I expected cleaning the machine oil and ground in grit. So, the shop is now not at all clean like those in the photos (taken just after moving in).
Foley -- Yes. the wall behind the chop saw has sheet metal on it.
|05-10-2002 01:35 PM|
Medusa -- is 1800 sq feet BOTH up and lower? 30' x 30' building?
How is the epoxy floor holding up (I assume two part epoxy, my concern is welding on it (burns and such).
Trying to get an idea of the "space" of your floor. I've found a "U" shaped area with the lathe, mill, and work table is pretty good for size and "not running around back and forth".
Thinking of making the rear of the shop into two 15' x 15' rooms. Lets me keep my "office" and the mill & lathe in a "clean" area,
while the welding/grinding/plasma cutter are done in the "dirty" area (next 15' area). Front 20' is for parking vehicles, and all that
other stuff that can not go into the loft.
Deed restrictions are very reasonable. Only requirement is that the side facing the street has to be brick like the house. Hence the 30' side will be in that direction, along with the garage door moved to the front. Both neighbors commented that they thought 1500 sq ft shop seemed like a good size!
Only catch with moving the room door around, is not possible to have room for a lift.
wheelinjp -- interesting idea. Not sure if I can put such a container into the yard during construction. Would be cheaper to store (& have access to) everything when I need it!
|05-10-2002 12:04 PM|
It looks like you are WAY to clean and tidy to make my mistake, but if this is where you acutally use your chop saw, I would recommend putting a piece of sheetmetal over the plywood on the wall. I have had the stream of sparks coming off a chop saw litterally burn into sheetrock. I am sure that plywood would be easier to damage. Other than that, it looks like a SWEET area to do some hobbyist work in.
|05-10-2002 10:38 AM|
Damn, medusa, that is the nicest shop ive seen at someones home. Great work, I'm sure you love it. I especailly like the mill and lathe
I wish my house was as clean as your shop.
|05-10-2002 10:16 AM|
I built a new shop last summer. Mine is a two-story affair with office and guest quarters above. The design included a large beam running across the ceiling of the shop area, which was perfect for a bridge crane system. I have to say that is one of the most appreciated features from my perspective (old fart with a bad back)
Winters in Central Orygun are cold, so heating was an issue for me. I elected to keep the shop relatively small and clean by building an unheated pole barn for storage and the more dirty activities (e.g., sandblasting).
Pics of my shop are HERE
|05-10-2002 07:38 AM|
|wheelinjp||I forgot last night to say for your temp storage just rent a steel container. Not a semi trailer but the ones used on jobsites. I am having one delivered to the house we just bought with no shop for use for 6mos while we build one. I found one place with a 8ftx20ft for $59.00 a month and a one time $75.00 buck deliver and pickup fee.I think they even have metal floors. Very lockable dry and secure. Plus all your stuff is on site.|
|05-09-2002 10:54 PM|
you guys keep mentioning floor drains.
they are "illegal" in most areas I thought.
too many morons dumping motor oil and glycol down them ruined it for the rest of us
|05-09-2002 10:49 PM|
|wheelinjp||Well I certainly like all these ideas. I didnt read all of it and didnt see mention of any floor attachment points. I mean put a 3/4in bolt through a 1in plate of steel under the slab maybe 10inx10in plate with a 3/4in bolt through it with it sticking flush to the floor surface and the concrete recessed around it to mount a d-ring or tool to pull something towards the floor.I had recently found my Yj frame was bent and with a jackstand and a floor attachment point I could have fixed it. I hope this is not a repeat of another idea. Another if into body and paint would be to build 8ft benches with flourescent lights under them shining sideways towards what you are working on.|
|05-09-2002 06:25 PM|
our one cost 18000 aus - 9000 us?
i is 1200s/ft 30x40
i has 3 9'6" roller doors which are 11'6" high
3 phase power
8 fluro lights
8 standard power points
i like it
|05-09-2002 12:41 PM|
Henry... I figured on making a separate concrete pads for the air compressor & A/C unit. One trick I saw for cutting down the noise of a compressor was to use egg cartons on the interior of the compressor housing walls. Lots of baffles to let heat out, but keep the noise down.
Lots of good idea.... Thanks!
Looks like my offer has been ACCEPTED! Sellers are cool, walked the property yesterday with my 100' tape. Looks like a 30' x 50' shop will work out fine! YEEHA!
Deed restrictions are funny. "no junk" -- easy to understand, "no swine" -- cool, ex can't be out there No Rifle Shooting... Shot guns for clay & birds are OK "Honest officer I didn't realize it was my ex, I thought it was a big fat pigeon.
Shop plans have to be reviewed by the "committee", biggest requirements are that the shop is "of similar construction and quality as the house". I.e. the front of the shop must be brick that matches the house.
With the last requirement, looking to modify the shop idea to have the 30 ft end facing the street, with two large garage doors. Hmm, less brick work required. Rest of the shop can be other than brick.
Biggest problem: Finding a place to "store" my stuff: i.e. milling machine, lathe, TIG welder while the shop is being built. House currently has a two car garage, but to get all six of us into the house we need to convert the garage into bedrooms. Realistically it will be six months that I won't be able to do any metal work, but gets expensive with "riggers" to move that stuff around. Starting to think of a "frame" with four wheels that could suspend a large piece of equipment so I could winch it onto a trailer. Milling machine weighs in around 3500 pounds!
|05-07-2002 11:26 AM|
|60seriesguy||A buddy of mine that had experienced friction with neighbors over the noises from working in his shop built a nook for his air compressor out of concrete blocks, with built-in vibration insulation. It cut down on the noise dramatically. Maybe building something like this into the shop design from the get-go?|
|05-07-2002 11:05 AM|
Just about done building my first shop..
It was a compromise, since I have to share with my mom.. but it's been a great learning experience, and I've already figured out what to do for Round 2 when I find a place worth buying.. in the meantime, I can deal with coming over to use the shop.
Went 30x30. Sure sounded big when we were tearing down the old 24x20 or so.. still seems big..
Layout is 3 garage doors. two 9x7s on opposite ends (drive-through from street to back yard), one 9x9 to the yard/alley, leaving one corner with no windows and no doors.
The "drive through" is car and Harley parking and off-limits for wrenching.
That leaves a 30' long by 18' "work bay".. equipment lines one wall ( fridge, blast cabinet, parts washer, drill press, rollaway, filing cabinet for stuff, etc).
The "short" wall has a desk, and will have a 3x8 steel work bench when I get around to it.
Leaves a decent sized work area for one Scout at a time.
I can even get my 119" WB FS Travelall inside.. but between the time the old garage was knocked down and the new one finished, I went out and bought a long-box crewcab.. 166" WB.
I think I can park it inside and still walk around, but when I finish the new 392 for it, I'm going to have to leave the truck half out of the garage to have enough room to roll my hoist with the engine in front of it.
Next time, bigger!
Realistically, 28x32 would've been a better size, making it easier to park two cars deep, plus get the crewcab in.
10' ceilings are fine, since an above ground hoist wasn't an option.
My rigs will currently just squeeze through the 7' doors - well, before I put the 36s on it would..
Went with 2" foam insulation under the 4" slab. There's 750' of 1/2" poly pipe in the floor for radiant floor heat. Haven't hooked up the propane tank and hot-water heater and recirc pump yet.
I went nuts on electric. Something like 15 outlets in the ceiling on 2 breakers. Idea is to use the cheap $10 (loaded with bulbs) 4' dual-tube flourescents. I can just add them wherever and whenever I want - there's an outlet handy.
On the walls, outlets are about 40" off the ground, and every 36". At 40" off the ground, we dryawalled up 48", then the next 4' are 5/8" strand board, then the top 20" are drywall again.
On top of the strand board there'll be some pegboard in places, too.
I put the outlets under 48" so I could easily cut the drywall for the outlets, instead of cutting plywood.
Basic structure is "ICF" - insulated concrete forms.
Foam blocks about 8" wide, with 2" of foam on the outside, then 4" of concrete and rebar, then 2" of foam on the inside.
Good for R-50.
Also have 48" deep frost-walls for a foundation - no moisture getting under the slab - that, plus the 2" insulation under the slab, the R-50 walls, and eventually some blown insulation in the attic.. should be cheap to keep toasty warm.
At the moment, I'm running my 80k BTU space heater with just drywall in the ceiling - no insulation - and it works fine.i
I have telephone and ethernet to the shop. Dual web-cams, too.
I thought about running TV, but we dumped cable years ago, and I can always "stream" some video from the computer in the house (capture board and a VCR for the tuner.. <G> )
100amp power feed runs in a buried 2" PVC conduit from the shop into the house's crawl space.
Phone and Ethernet runs on two seperate Cat5 runs in a second 2" PVC pipe. I fished some cotton rope through the pipe when I put it in and taped it on both ends to make fishing wires easier. Had 'em dig the trench to the house while the backhoe was here for the foundation.
I didn't plumb for the air, since I don't plan on being here *that* long.. but the plan at one time was to put air drops all over the place, too.
Probably about $20k into the shop, give or take.. contractor did the slab and the walls and the sheathing on the roof. I sided, I wired, I roofed, I drywalled.
Floor heat was a $1000 thus far. About half n' half for the under-slab insulation and for the pipe.
Shop cams at - http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/shopcam/
I kind of like the ICF.. it's not cheap, but it's not that much more than a good 2x6 stick structure, more so if you consider the R-50 insulation and what it would take to get a 2x6 building even close to that.. and it's strong. 4" of concrete and rebar!
I'm thinking the next one (assuming I can swing the $$) should be something like 40' deep (leaving a good 10' of workbench/equipment area and 30' for a bay, long enough to work on my crewcab - and definitely long enough to park two rigs deep).
Ideally, about 60' wide.
Put an above-ground lift on one end, with a high enough ceiling.. but only on that end, sloping it down to the opposite end.
Maybe make one end an "open" bay that could become a paint booth from time to time, then next to that the lift, leaving about 3 open bays w/o a lift, and without painting an option for just general "stuff" - or car parking.
You can't have a big enough shop.. except when it comes time to heat it.
Ideally, some method of partitioning off half of the shop give or take to make heating easier/cheaper..
I live in Montana, so a warm shop is a good shop.
Oh yeah.. thought about the I-beam crane thing.. $$$.
Instead, I find my $30 hand-truck and my engine hoist work GREAT for moving heavy stuff around by myself.
I don't know why I waited so long to buy the hand-truck..
|05-07-2002 10:00 AM|
sum else u can do on the floor to help clean up.. along each wall run a drainage ditch 4 inchs or so and put steel grates over them
and run the concreat or block up 12 inchs or so..
the steal grates can be removed to power wash the floor.. and left in place the rest of the time so ur buddys whos dont step in and twist his ankle and ends up ownin ur dream shop.. plus it will be a lot cleaner and nicer then trying to places drains thru out the shop;..
if u have the money pout a lil extra behind the shop a place to wash ur rig before bringing it in to the shop..help keep the place a lil cleaner.. and wont cause a huge pond..,,
|05-07-2002 09:15 AM|
Great info here...
|05-07-2002 07:30 AM|
Lot's of good suggestions here.
Bridge Crane: I would look hard into this. Like what has been said, nothing like moving heavy shit around effortlessly and placing exactly where you want it. Simple bridge cranes can be had for cheap. Desiging the rail system is as simple as using channel or I-beams. Footings of 4'x4'x4' and 6" steel posts @ 10-12 feet would accomodate up to a 20 ton bridge crane with 20' clear easily.
Codes: This will most likely be the biggest limiting factor more than anything. Check for building types and height restrictions. Here we have a limitation as to a percentage of the garage vs living quarters. Also our codes don't allow full living spaces outside the main residence, but there are many ways around that kind of stuff.
Size: More is definatly better. The biggest and tallest you can build will more likely provide you with many years of shop bliss over the damn I wish I had made that door just a few inches taller or had a little more space just to store stuff.
Costs: If you go prefab the biggest cost will be the slab. This is one area not to skimp, a bad or poor slab will be with you the life of the shop. Yes, 4" will suffice for most but 6 is better and less likely to crack if you drop something big on it. Plan on under slab drains, pits and electrical. If you plan on pre-fab find out when the dealer will have end of show or end of season specials. It's really cool to get a 10k kit for 3500 when they are trying to dump stock. Don't forget shipping costs. Some buildings also require special scaffolding or cranes to erect.
Electrical: Don't under estimate your need and like was said provide banked lighting and possibly emergency lighting. Nothing like being in a big dark shop with all sorts of things to trip over.
Natural lighting: Consider lots of skylights or windows, cheap lighting and helps avoid the under daylight bo-bo's for your rattle can paint jobs.
When I get around to building mine I will be looking into quanset style with 5' concrete block stem walls, I figure I can get 40x80 for under 5k for the building minus the concrete. I can then finish the interior as I have time.
|05-07-2002 04:57 AM|
|KMAN||I always wondered if you could build a heated slab system that uses used oil for the fuel?????|
|05-07-2002 03:53 AM|
This is DEFINITELY the thread to keep an eye on for sure! I am looking at 2.2 acre lot to put house and shop on, with future plans of putting down a 2nd house as a rental property. If all goes well with the planning stage I will be working with about 1 1/4 acres for house and shop. Initial shop size so far is about 40' wide and about 40 - 50' deep with one stall having 14' doors on both ends and the other two stalls having 10' doors each. A "storage loft/office" is a darn good idea complete with a 1/2 or 3/4 bath and all of the phone/cable creature comforts. The idea of an exteriordoor to the bathroom is going in for revisement as we are looking to put in a pool as well. Being in AridZona I am going to build 2x6 exterior walls for sure. A little overboard on the thickness and insulation will go a long ways with cooling as well as heating efficiencies. The lift is without a doubt a must! The overhead hoist and rolling track is an idea to look at incorporating. I never seem to have enough hands to do the heavy work. The suggestion of a "hood" over the fabrication bench is another gem. Has anybody seen DRM's shop since he posted it up a while back? Any other little goodies you can come up with?!?!?
|05-06-2002 07:20 PM|
A couple other thoughts, an engine hoist works great for carting stuff around the shop. It's also about .01% of the cost of a bridge crane and you don't have to engineer your walls to accept one.
Back to the lift. I've never liked inground lifts because I can't stand directy under the center of my vehicle. I don't like working around something when I'm doing tranny/tcase work.
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