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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-22-2014 11:19 PM
pcoplin I used redrilled WJ rotors with a Warn hub kit, and had to space out the calipers 1/4 inch. I made some large round spacers from plate, worked well with no loosening for 3-4 years.

I hope you find a rotor, but don't be afraid of using them. As long as they are made from plate or you have some material faced, it'll run.
04-22-2014 09:24 PM
SkooledMedic
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkooledMedic View Post
Has anyone found a definitive rotor than can be used without spacing the caliper saddle out by 1/4"?

I may have to go do some digging on the web and see if I can't find a rotor the same diameter/thickness as the WJ that's 0.25" shorter. I have a hard time believing there isn't SOME option out there for a rotor, or a combination of parts that eliminate needing a spacer if the Sportrac rotors are used.

Any way you cut it, spacing the caliper bracket is sketchy and I'd like to avoid that.

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04-22-2014 09:23 PM
SkooledMedic Has anyone found a definitive rotor than can be used without spacing the caliper saddle out by 1/4"?

I may have to go do some digging on the web and see if I can't find a rotor the same diameter/thickness as the WJ that's 0.25" shorter. I have a hard time believing there isn't SOME option out there for a rotor, or a combination of parts that eliminate needing a spacer if the Sportrac rotors are used.

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04-11-2014 02:07 PM
y2knole got the rod ends in and installed today. Much better. went to leave a nasty review on the RuffStuff site about them selling me the wrong crap and realized they have an option for the high angle drag link ends... so all in all, my bad and they were awesome for replacing as much stuff as the did
03-30-2014 11:20 AM
y2knole current TREs on the draglink failed that test...

ordered the PM stuff today, thanks.
03-25-2014 07:53 AM
mrblaine
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2knole View Post
awesome info, thanks for taking the time to reply and even better give part numbers.

That these guys are going toast after a single ride tells me its more likely the result of hyperextension than wear from bumpsteer/wobbles. would you agree?

Ive got the tires off of it still, I'll droop it out and test the draglink TREs as you suggested tonight and if its not right get the parts I need.

Thanks again!
I tend to agree, but the test will tell all. If the tie rod TRE's are dying, that's just crap ends. They only need a few degrees of misalignment to compensate for steering axis inclination, so if they are not lasting, get some better parts for there.
03-25-2014 06:12 AM
y2knole
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
You need to pull the tires and droop out the front after you disconnect the draglink from the knuckle. After you do that, try to reinstall it. If you can't get the pin over far enough to go all the way into the tapered hole, then you need to get the HMA Chevy TRE's for the draglink.

I use the Parts Mike ES2027L and R which are the short shank versions of the GM ES2026R and matching GM ES2027L. Mike had them as a product and so far after several years, they hold up as well as the Moog stuff I used to use.



I've built many with custom steering and all of them have the springs centered over the axle. The benefits far outweigh the small bit of extra work and expense it takes to do it.



Check the draglink TRE's and make sure you have the HMA versions. If not, make it so. I've been running them and a set of the normal TRE versions from PM for the Tie Rod for several years and have yet to wear one out on 40's or so in all that time.

Wobbles, tire balance, bumpsteer are all things that take a toll over time. Hyperextension of the pin in the body ruins a TRE in one or two occurrences.
awesome info, thanks for taking the time to reply and even better give part numbers.

That these guys are going toast after a single ride tells me its more likely the result of hyperextension than wear from bumpsteer/wobbles. would you agree?

Ive got the tires off of it still, I'll droop it out and test the draglink TREs as you suggested tonight and if its not right get the parts I need.

Thanks again!
03-24-2014 08:57 PM
mrblaine
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2knole View Post
The TREs are from Ruff-Stuff.
You need to pull the tires and droop out the front after you disconnect the draglink from the knuckle. After you do that, try to reinstall it. If you can't get the pin over far enough to go all the way into the tapered hole, then you need to get the HMA Chevy TRE's for the draglink.

I use the Parts Mike ES2027L and R which are the short shank versions of the GM ES2026R and matching GM ES2027L. Mike had them as a product and so far after several years, they hold up as well as the Moog stuff I used to use.

Quote:
I seem to recall long ago seeing that you'd built one with the springs remounted on the axle to counter that problem. Makes sense.
I've built many with custom steering and all of them have the springs centered over the axle. The benefits far outweigh the small bit of extra work and expense it takes to do it.

Quote:
I'm looking like im stuck with what I got...

Sadly, one of the main reasons I took this project on was to get away from the stock TREs that were wearing out on me all the time...
Check the draglink TRE's and make sure you have the HMA versions. If not, make it so. I've been running them and a set of the normal TRE versions from PM for the Tie Rod for several years and have yet to wear one out on 40's or so in all that time.

Wobbles, tire balance, bumpsteer are all things that take a toll over time. Hyperextension of the pin in the body ruins a TRE in one or two occurrences.
03-24-2014 06:45 PM
y2knole
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beat95YJ View Post
Clearly you need to identify and solve the problem.
Clearly, thats what im trying to do.

Thanks for your insight.
03-24-2014 05:51 PM
Beat95YJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2knole View Post

Sadly, one of the main reasons I took this project on was to get away from the stock TREs that were wearing out on me all the time...
Clearly you need to identify and solve the problem.
03-24-2014 05:33 PM
y2knole The TREs are from Ruff-Stuff.

I seem to recall long ago seeing that you'd built one with the springs remounted on the axle to counter that problem. Makes sense. I'm looking like im stuck with what I got...

Sadly, one of the main reasons I took this project on was to get away from the stock TREs that were wearing out on me all the time...
03-24-2014 03:38 PM
mrblaine
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2knole View Post
Ive probably got some of it all going on.

Heres my geometry from when it was first built:
https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/jeep-...l#post17940186

I know the trackbar length/angle is off. And my tires are just a mess (old 36" Bias Iroks) with wobbles.

Is that it?

Also, I just dont know quite what/how to go about making the trackbar length perfect... I know it needs to be longer, out in front of the spring, but then theres interferance with the draglink and just not enough realestate for all these things to go together here...
I don't recognize the draglink TRE's as being the high misalignment versions, what are they?

When I build them, I make the draglink first with the axle centered at ride height. Then I build a trackbar the exact same length, build the axle side mount and then float the trackbar behind it and line it up parallel. Where ever that lands the frame side is where I build the bracket over to it.

I won't attempt one without the springs on the center of the axle tube because I don't want to deal with the problems you are having.
03-24-2014 01:26 PM
y2knole Ive probably got some of it all going on.

Heres my geometry from when it was first built:
https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/jeep-...l#post17940186

I know the trackbar length/angle is off. And my tires are just a mess (old 36" Bias Iroks) with wobbles.

Is that it?

Also, I just dont know quite what/how to go about making the trackbar length perfect... I know it needs to be longer, out in front of the spring, but then theres interferance with the draglink and just not enough realestate for all these things to go together here...
03-24-2014 12:30 PM
mrblaine
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2knole View Post
I installed the Synergy BJs yesterday. you're right, those recessed zerk fittings are BFA.

Im still not sure I understand why my TREs are tearing up though. The angles arent too bad. only thing I can think is they just arent up for being bound up in rocks and/or ive got a tire wobble so bad it tears them up just even running them only on the trails...
It can be many things tearing up the TRE's. Mostly it's crap TRE's, then it's geometry and wobble. If you let the tires wobble, it is just like sitting there with a hammer and tapping on it hundreds of times an hour. Nothing will survive that for long. If your geometry is off, same thing and that takes a toll on steering gears, steering joints, balljoints, and everything else that locates or controls the front axle.

Bad geometry is very likely the number 1 overlooked cause of lots of damage because folks don't understand what it is doing "because it's a trail only rig" and it doesn't matter. Replace enough parts and it starts to matter.
03-24-2014 11:58 AM
y2knole I installed the Synergy BJs yesterday. you're right, those recessed zerk fittings are BFA.

Im still not sure I understand why my TREs are tearing up though. The angles arent too bad. only thing I can think is they just arent up for being bound up in rocks and/or ive got a tire wobble so bad it tears them up just even running them only on the trails...
03-07-2014 07:12 PM
rocklobster87
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2knole View Post
If memory serves, only the upper ones are different but I could be mistaken.
uppers are same. lowers are different.
03-07-2014 12:17 PM
y2knole
Quote:
Originally Posted by Why J? View Post
Did you run WJ ball joints or TJ? The Tj are the wrong taper.
99% sure I got the WJ ones, but my memory is hazy right now!

If memory serves, only the upper ones are different but I could be mistaken.
03-07-2014 12:13 PM
Why J? Did you run WJ ball joints or TJ? The Tj are the wrong taper.
03-06-2014 01:37 PM
y2knole and if, given the photos I posted a year or so ago when I 'finished' this project, you see something that should be fixed, im all ears.

I know the track bar and drag link arent perfectly parallel or perpindicular. its a 99.9% offroad only rig (I didnt even renew my tag since last may) so im not too worried about bumpsteer.

I know my Iroks/beadlocks dont balance and vibrate me into a WILD death wobble above 25 mph or so.

What else do you suggest?
03-06-2014 01:19 PM
y2knole
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steppin Steve View Post
You've already gone through the Ruff Stuff ends, and Moog's are complete junk. Now you're wanting to go to another end from Synergy? You do realize that the amount of money you're wasting on ends could be used to fix the problem rather than band-aid it, don't you? I ran my Ruff Stuff ends for around 3 years before I sold my YJ, and had no issues. I think you need to address the issue that is causing you to eat balljoints like candy.
I have identified and fixed some issues with the tie rod ends.. the nut was tight on the taper/end of threads, before there was enough tension to seat it in the knuckles. Ive added some grade 8 washers to get that sorted, and will be adding limit straps to keep from over extending it at the draglink. Ruff Stuff also acknowledged changing vendors due to some quality/durability issues.

re the ball joints: On my last outing, I had an incident in which I tore up a bunch of shit. I was pinned between a tree, and a rock and there was a nest of yellow jackets that the guy ahead of me had stirred up a few feet away. after being stung a few times, I waited 15 minutes for them to calm down and had to one-shot it the F outta there. I broke a track bar bracket weld (that was weak from the jump and has been fixed properly since) bent my front right wheel something awful, and tore up a ball joint.

I know Im at the point of throwing good money after bad on this axle... but if the synnergy ball joints work as advertised, I ought to be able to go forward with this thing..

I also am hard on ball joints cause im running only a 2.25" back spacing to clear tires to frame rails. I know... I need to ditch this 30 and go bigger, but its what I got, and a couple hundred here and there vs a couple thousand to go to the next level is what it is
03-06-2014 09:57 AM
rocklobster87
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2knole View Post
one other problem Ive encountered is balljoints.

I did all new Moog joints when I built this thing. they are already done for...

I think im going to get the Synnergy ones this time around. they arent much mroe and should hold up much better.

Double checking myself here, but I want to order this one to get the right taper/size, right:
part no
8009-12 Fits (D30/44) 07+ Jeep JK, 99-04 Jeep WJ (2) Upper / (2) Lower
moogs are shit. the synergy joints work great. ontop of being tough the silicone boots and the recessed zerk fitting on the lower are rad.

this is what you want.

Attachment 1239993
03-06-2014 09:31 AM
Steppin Steve
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2knole View Post
one other problem Ive encountered is balljoints.

I did all new Moog joints when I built this thing. they are already done for...

I think im going to get the Synnergy ones this time around. they arent much mroe and should hold up much better.

Double checking myself here, but I want to order this one to get the right taper/size, right:
part no
8009-12 Fits (D30/44) 07+ Jeep JK, 99-04 Jeep WJ (2) Upper / (2) Lower
You've already gone through the Ruff Stuff ends, and Moog's are complete junk. Now you're wanting to go to another end from Synergy? You do realize that the amount of money you're wasting on ends could be used to fix the problem rather than band-aid it, don't you? I ran my Ruff Stuff ends for around 3 years before I sold my YJ, and had no issues. I think you need to address the issue that is causing you to eat balljoints like candy.
03-06-2014 09:23 AM
y2knole one other problem Ive encountered is balljoints.

I did all new Moog joints when I built this thing. they are already done for...

I think im going to get the Synnergy ones this time around. they arent much mroe and should hold up much better.

Double checking myself here, but I want to order this one to get the right taper/size, right:
part no
8009-12 Fits (D30/44) 07+ Jeep JK, 99-04 Jeep WJ (2) Upper / (2) Lower
02-25-2014 02:09 PM
FoghornLeghorn
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2knole View Post
Its also possible im over extending the ones on the draglink, as this 3link flexes like crazy, and maybe I need limit straps?
That's what I was going to suggest. Good chance you're hyperextending the joint. I am the exact opposite as you in terms of usage, mostly on-road with some off-road. I do have limiting straps, and used the Chevy so-called 1-tons for all link ends. Purchased lifetime TRE's from NAPA, and haven't exchanged them yet. No noticeable play or chatter in my steering.
02-25-2014 02:00 PM
y2knole im running the ruff-stuff 1-ton kit with the offset TREs for the tie rod and standard chevy 1tons for the drag link

the first set they replaced under warranty, as I saw they'd had a bad-batch and gotten a new source for them. its also possible im over extending the ones on the draglink, as this 3link flexes like crazy, and maybe I need limit straps?
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