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Old 03-15-2019, 02:48 PM   #26 (permalink)
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You need to replace those with this style stud and washer system. If you need parts that are unavailable, and need a USA based supplier, let me know and I can get them shipped to you.

The way you have your high steer arm setup, it can wiggle around even if you have it tight as hell.
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Old 03-15-2019, 02:51 PM   #27 (permalink)
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7.5 degrees should be fine. I usually go for 6 but a little more wont hurt. Really the whole setup doesnt look bad. I think Action Fap might be onto something with your highsteer arm not being as tight as it needs to be or working loose. I had a toyota that had the same issue you are describing and it always ment it was time to go back through and re-torque everything. Also how are your bushings in your shakles? Are you using the right size bolt with the sleeve in the bushing?

I personally wouldnt jump to linking the front end. It is a lot more complicated to make it drive right and there is no problem at all with leaf springs.


As far as new leaf springs go the appear that they may be close to the size of factory toyota leaf springs in the 80-85 year range. I'll bet the dimensions are easy to find online if toyota springs and may even be on trail-gears website.
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Old 03-15-2019, 03:06 PM   #28 (permalink)
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You guys have a point with the high steer arm as I have to pull those bolts tight every so often. Even attempted using locktite, to no avail. I would like to do some other setup there. Maybe a link to the draglink knuckle with a heim to the tierod. I have used nothing more than ball joints that turn into a nut I welded into a piece of tube. The ball joints come off the tie rod link from a IFS ute.

I have bashed some figures into a 3-4 link calculator I got off the forum. But I dont know how to post it here off my phone for you guys to look at. I'll try and take a pic off my screen and see if it works.

I have put figures in for the rear as well. Rear is on the left, and front on the right.

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Old 03-15-2019, 03:10 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Ok, so I don't really know how to read these figures and what would work for me. I have spent some time on the forum reading up on the various setups that you guys aim for. But to be honest, it starts getting confusing, but I don't think my figures are too bad if I understand it all correctly.

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Old 03-15-2019, 03:22 PM   #30 (permalink)
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As far as new leaf springs go the appear that they may be close to the size of factory toyota leaf springs in the 80-85 year range. I'll bet the dimensions are easy to find online if toyota springs and may even be on trail-gears website.
Actually think you are exactly right as I know the Toyota springs about 60mm shorter than these. But I know of someone that did a body and engine swop of my exact rig onto a Toyota chassis and suspension, and had to add a set of coils on top of the leafs to carry the weight of these Nissan motors. Adding an additional two blades to the Toyota leaf pack carries the weight, but makes for a horrible ride and zero articulation. I have been told to get a set of Parabolics to sort it all out. But the price of them is just way expensive. There are not many places that make them up, and they are mostly special type orders.

Then I have no idea what I need to change again to take the Parabolics.

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Old 03-15-2019, 03:35 PM   #31 (permalink)
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In some cases you can get away without one. It's always one of the first things I ditch on a YJ SOA. But in a lot of cases, especially when dealing with death wobble, adding one is a good solution to getting the lateral stability needed to keep the suspension oscillation under control. There is a pretty good reason almost every OEM uses one with their solid axle leaf spring suspensions. The on-road handling will be improved as well.
Fair enough. I have only experience with the YJ's
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Old 03-15-2019, 03:43 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Thanks for the input so far guys. Its nearly 1am here, and I'm off to bed.

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Old 03-15-2019, 03:44 PM   #33 (permalink)
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How tight are your suspension bolts?
As the castor changes so will the camber and toe in/out.
Are you running toe in or toe out and how much difference front to back?
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Old 03-15-2019, 03:55 PM   #34 (permalink)
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How tight are your suspension bolts?

As the castor changes so will the camber and toe in/out.

Are you running toe in or toe out and how much difference front to back?
Everything is as tight as I dare make it (I don't have a torque wrench). I can see the camber has gone out at -7.5deg castor as I am driving a lot more on the "heel" of the wheel. Toe, I have no idea what it would be now. When the axle was turned at -1.5, it was basically set at zero. I got the axle like that, and changed nothing. I have not even removed the draglink while doing the install. Although I will need to at some stage. I don't have any play on the ball joints, but the rubbers are fairly perished. These axles hardly had 100000km on them, although they are nearly 40 years old now.

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Old 03-15-2019, 04:11 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Shot in the dark: could his Ackerman be out of whack?

Another shot in the dark: can the hi-steer arm be drilled and doweled?
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Old 03-15-2019, 04:22 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Is it me, or does the OP need new springs as those are either worn out, or overloaded causing the flat/negative arch spring?

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Old 03-15-2019, 04:25 PM   #37 (permalink)
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About the springs...

You said that 1-ton rear springs aren't doing the job for a 2.7td. I don't understand this. 2.7 sounds small, from a place where the 7.3l is common. Are those springs from 1982, and just shot?

Edit ^ great minds.

Edit2. Btw, my avatar has +4" springs on 37s. PO had removed the trackbar, resulting in bad DW. I put it back, now it drives fine up to 85mph.
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Old 03-15-2019, 05:15 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Everything is as tight as I dare make it (I don't have a torque wrench). I can see the camber has gone out at -7.5deg castor as I am driving a lot more on the "heel" of the wheel. Toe, I have no idea what it would be now. When the axle was turned at -1.5, it was basically set at zero. I got the axle like that, and changed nothing. I have not even removed the draglink while doing the install. Although I will need to at some stage. I don't have any play on the ball joints, but the rubbers are fairly perished. These axles hardly had 100000km on them, although they are nearly 40 years old now.

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Maybe the spring hanger bolts are too tight?
I would definitely check the toe and get it the way you want it, some believe toe out is good or toe in. Like I said I'm not familiar with those axles.
I guess another thing to check is to see if the axle is parallel to the rear one.
Is there any play in the steering box? (Which by the way is on the wrong side ) LOL
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:15 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Have you done anything to compare the pinion angle on the axle compared to the transfer case?

I would be tempted to roll that axle forward some back to 5* or so.

If you’ve gotten this far then building a new Shackle hanger on the front to move them forward some should be pretty straight forward. You will of course build new shackles at the same time.

While your high steer arm would get some looks here, it seems OK. Adding the conical washers and changingthose bolts to studs would make me feel better about it though.
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:59 PM   #40 (permalink)
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I'm thinking you have too much caster and it is not playing well with the built in camber. The preferred way would of been to cut and rotate the knuckles instead of cutting and reselling the spring perches. You should investigate new springs or reuse your main leads and add some additional leaves to the mix. Make sure your spring bushings are good as well as all of the tie rod ends. If the axle in it's original application worked well with 1.5 degrees caster then you should be good with a similar amount. Did you square and locate the front axle based off of the rear axle or did you use frame measurments? You should have used the rear axle to locate and align the front axle since the frame could have been compromised during the collision. Good luck should be an easy fix just time consuming to figure out where you went wrong. You also need to work on your steering arm fastening method.
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:37 PM   #41 (permalink)
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If I were to run leaf springs in the front of a Nissan again, I would buy a pack of Old Man Emu 2" rear lift springs for a 86-88 Toyota (Hilux) Pickup. They will move your axle forward to get it away from the oil pan, and the Heavy Duty Version should have a good spring rate. Looks like you may have to redo the front shackle, because these springs will have a little more arch.

For what it is worth, I ran 2 sets of 79-89 Toyota rear main spring packs mixed together for the front leafs in my old rig (SAS WD21). It worked fairly well, but after a few years they were wore out from being old springs to start with.

I don't have much input on your other issues unfortunately other than a 3-link may be opening up a whole other can of worms for you.

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Old 03-16-2019, 12:48 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Thanks for all the replies. Got some stuff to work through here.

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Originally Posted by plym49 View Post
Shot in the dark: could his Ackerman be out of whack?

It would have gone out slightly as soon as I moved the front axle forward 60mm.

Another shot in the dark: can the hi-steer arm be drilled and doweled?

I would eventually love to replace and upgrade to heims.
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Originally Posted by aczlan View Post
Is it me, or does the OP need new springs as those are either worn out, or overloaded causing the flat/negative arch spring?

I have added a blade with military wrap to help, as the original just went inverted. This is the result. I then took the rear leaf pack and put it in the front, does the same as the original leaf pack before the extra blade. Then a guy here did a D22 ute swop with identical engine and gearbox, onto a Toyota chassis and suspension, and the 85 Toyota springs just went inverted the way mine had gone. He added the coilover springs from a VW Golf as helpers

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About the springs...

You said that 1-ton rear springs aren't doing the job for a 2.7td. I don't understand this. 2.7 sounds small, from a place where the 7.3l is common. Are those springs from 1982, and just shot?

Those springs are the rear springs from a 97 one tonner hardbody pickup, and |I added a blade

Edit ^ great minds.

Edit2. Btw, my avatar has +4" springs on 37s. PO had removed the trackbar, resulting in bad DW. I put it back, now it drives fine up to 85mph.
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Originally Posted by dave_dj1 View Post
I guess another thing to check is to see if the axle is parallel to the rear one.
Is there any play in the steering box? (Which by the way is on the wrong side )

HEHE, we drive on the other side of the road here, like the Aussies and English, so everything is swoppped over. When we did the first tests after things got bent in the bush, we could not find where things went wrong. Panel shops measured to see if they could find out if it's frame or suspension. We measured suspension bits and could not find out what had gone wrong. quotes to "fix" just went through the roof as they were basically just going to rebuild. Vehicle would have been written off as it was just too expensive to repair, and withdrew the claim to be able to keep the vehicle.

We measured, and cross measured from various places on the chassis to check and double check for square on the front axle when it went in. Cross reference to the rear axle to double check, and everything is in line and squared up.



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Old 03-16-2019, 01:20 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Have you done anything to compare the pinion angle on the axle compared to the transfer case?

Not really relevant as the driveshaft has a double cardon on the TC end, BUT it is tilted down around 7* from factory due to my castor that is running -7* from the factory spec for that axle, as it would have been used in the Patrol UTE.

I would be tempted to roll that axle forward some back to 5* or so.

I would love to be able to play and roll that axle to any position to test and see what works. But with leafs it is not easy or quick or cheap to do. Can you imagine I had turned the knuckle to test this, and now have to go back turn again, and again, and again.... I will be happy to turn the knuckles when I get every thing running nice, and I do it to just get the pinion angle corrected.

If you’ve gotten this far then building a new Shackle hanger on the front to move them forward some should be pretty straight forward. You will of course build new shackles at the same time.

I have never been very happy with the way the frame gets extended, but thats just me. NissanNut has done many, and I have never heard of them breaking

While your high steer arm would get some looks here, it seems OK. Adding the conical washers and changingthose bolts to studs would make me feel better about it though.

I will look into this as it is a concern for me as well


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Originally Posted by Daveyclimber View Post
I'm thinking you have too much caster and it is not playing well with the built in camber. The preferred way would of been to cut and rotate the knuckles instead of cutting and reselling the spring perches. You should investigate new springs or reuse your main leads and add some additional leaves to the mix. Make sure your spring bushings are good as well as all of the tie rod ends. If the axle in it's original application worked well with 1.5 degrees caster then you should be good with a similar amount. Did you square and locate the front axle based off of the rear axle or did you use frame measurments? You should have used the rear axle to locate and align the front axle since the frame could have been compromised during the collision. Good luck should be an easy fix just time consuming to figure out where you went wrong. You also need to work on your steering arm fastening method.
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Originally Posted by boardbysled View Post
If I were to run leaf springs in the front of a Nissan again, I would buy a pack of Old Man Emu 2" rear lift springs for a 86-88 Toyota (Hilux) Pickup. They will move your axle forward to get it away from the oil pan, and the Heavy Duty Version should have a good spring rate. Looks like you may have to redo the front shackle, because these springs will have a little more arch.

For what it is worth, I ran 2 sets of 79-89 Toyota rear main spring packs mixed together for the front leafs in my old rig (SAS WD21). It worked fairly well, but after a few years they were wore out from being old springs to start with.

How much is any change in these various leaf packs going to affect my ride height? I waited six months for everything to settle in the front before I pulled my lift blocks from the rear, and did drop boxes. I don't want to be struggling with ride height changes from front to rear.

I don't have much input on your other issues unfortunately other than a 3-link may be opening up a whole other can of worms for you.
I see there are a few linked Pathfinders in the "show us your SAS projects" thread, but it looks like those guys have not been around on the forum for years now. I would like to compare fixing points and heights with these guys, and to actually just find out how well it worked.

Your feedback has given me a few things to think about, and a few things I want to go back and check up on, and measure some stuff again.
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Old 03-16-2019, 04:27 AM   #44 (permalink)
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I am one of those SAS pathfinders guys.

If you plan to use the cv shaft at the t-case, you need that pinion to come up. Ideally it should be pointed just about straight at that t-case.

For me, caster angle was a compromise of pinion and caster. To get my drive shaft angles right at 4* each side, I want to say I had caster in 5s with a waggy D44. Of course this was 10 years ago. You need to address both at the same time.

Look for most of your tech in the yota forum. The Nissan specific stuff is simply too limited.

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Old 03-16-2019, 08:16 AM   #45 (permalink)
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I am one of those SAS pathfinders guys.

If you plan to use the cv shaft at the t-case, you need that pinion to come up. Ideally it should be pointed just about straight at that t-case.

For me, caster angle was a compromise of pinion and caster. To get my drive shaft angles right at 4* each side, I want to say I had caster in 5s with a waggy D44. Of course this was 10 years ago. You need to address both at the same time.

Look for most of your tech in the yota forum. The Nissan specific stuff is simply too limited.
We have nothing off the shelf here. Very few people doing shit like this. So you build and try stuff as you go.

Pinions front and back have to be turned up. So the back also has tp be cut apart again. In the Patrol, the rear pinion is at 10*, but the best I can get put of the TC is 4* as I have to get it lined up perfectly to make the coupling betwern the TX10 hardbody TC and Patrol TC. That TC carrier is still work in progress, and I just found a thread here that tells me I have to do my TX10 rear mount over again.

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Old 03-16-2019, 11:11 AM   #46 (permalink)
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They may lift it a bit just because they have more arch. Looks like you could relocated your shackle forward and up some to counter-act this. You could also look at reversing the shackles and running the shackle in the rear and solid mount the spring in the front. That may help road manners a bit.
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Old 03-16-2019, 12:33 PM   #47 (permalink)
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I started my springs thay way round, but struggled with space to fit the shackles without getting more lift. I could look at going back to the factory SUA setup which gets me around 5 inches of space to work with. But then I sit with these things hanging out the bottom to get snagged on rocks.

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Old 03-16-2019, 02:43 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Have you seen the calming bell shackles for the D21? They shouldn’t addd much height. You should be able to duplicate these if you have access to a basic shop press.

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Old 03-16-2019, 04:50 PM   #49 (permalink)
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I have seen those, but I have not been a fan of going through the chassis member like that. But I will look at all these options and see what I wiĺl have to do to make this thing work.

My one daughter and I are trying to get a new business off the ground. She has purchased a little run around for work that needs a bunch of TLC. Her boyfriend has given her his one car for 2 months to give me a chance to get this little Corsa sorted. So my priority right now is the Corsa. Then my rig is next. Will be used for a daily driver to Rep with and deliver stock so we can try and save courier costs. But that means it will be towing a trailer with up to 2 tons on the back.

One of the reasons I am trying to lower it a bit as trailers don't like that angle. Did it for a while to make some money a while back, and its a pain as some trailer rental companies refuse that you take a trailer when they see that only the rear wheels are on the ground. The towball is 740mm off the ground.


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Old 03-17-2019, 02:05 PM   #50 (permalink)
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I have seen those, but I have not been a fan of going through the chassis member like that. But I will look at all these options and see what I wiĺl have to do to make this thing work.

My one daughter and I are trying to get a new business off the ground. She has purchased a little run around for work that needs a bunch of TLC. Her boyfriend has given her his one car for 2 months to give me a chance to get this little Corsa sorted. So my priority right now is the Corsa. Then my rig is next. Will be used for a daily driver to Rep with and deliver stock so we can try and save courier costs. But that means it will be towing a trailer with up to 2 tons on the back.

One of the reasons I am trying to lower it a bit as trailers don't like that angle. Did it for a while to make some money a while back, and its a pain as some trailer rental companies refuse that you take a trailer when they see that only the rear wheels are on the ground. The towball is 740mm off the ground.


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Sounds like you need a drop insert for your receiver hitch...

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