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Old 06-21-2014, 05:46 PM   #1 (permalink)
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School me on scope reticles

I am in the market for a variable power scope, something around a max of 14-20x. It's going on my 308 AR with a 16" barrel. I'm not sure if I should go with a mil-dot or MOA based reticle. Is one easier to use than the other or have any other advantages/disadvantages? I have never really used a reticle like this, so I'm going to have to learn either way. I've mainly been looking at various Nightforce scopes with these 3 reticles

Mil-Dot


MLR


MOAR
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Old 06-21-2014, 06:25 PM   #2 (permalink)
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If I were to start over, I'd go with a Mil/Mil scope for no other reason than all the cool kids are using them. It makes it much easier on the line trying to communicate with a team member or even eaves dropping on a competitor and being able to know WTF they are talking about if everyone is speaking the same language.

Me, at this point, I'm way to heavily vested in MOA/MOA scopes to change.
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Old 06-21-2014, 06:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
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MOA/MOA is easier when you're used to thinking in inches and yards though. (not exactly, but close enough)
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Old 06-21-2014, 07:24 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Id look up the equations involved in using them to range a target and pick the one that is easiest for you to use. Just a suggestion but which ever one you do go with I would get a turret that adjust in the same increments.
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Old 06-21-2014, 11:24 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Something with a Horus reticle makes wind holds and distance easier, a decent one from Bushnell can be had for around 1K, with the Horus h59 reticle, which has accuracy1st formula built into reticle.
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Old 06-22-2014, 12:22 AM   #6 (permalink)
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How do you calculate your hold over for targets at a known distance and bullet drop? Say I am shooting at a target 500 yards away and my bullet will drop 10 inches, how do I calculate how many Mils or MOAs I need to hold over?
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Old 06-22-2014, 06:15 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Been doing a little research on long range scopes and ran across this article. It explained a few things to me.

Best Long-Range Scope: Buyers Guide & Features To Look For | PrecisionRifleBlog.com
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Old 06-22-2014, 06:21 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TheRedHorseman View Post
MOA/MOA is easier when you're used to thinking in inches and yards though. (not exactly, but close enough)
That's how my thinking has been. But now a days, no one uses their scope for ranging. The reticle is used for holds. You can set the output of your ballistics program in either MOA or Mil so that doesn't really matter. If you are using the reticle to correct on a follow up shot, physical distance doesn't matter, what ever your miss measured in the reticle, you correct the same amount the opposite direction either by holding or dialing.
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Old 06-22-2014, 07:46 AM   #9 (permalink)
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My personal preference is the Dragunov style reticle:

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Old 06-22-2014, 09:10 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpenney View Post
How do you calculate your hold over for targets at a known distance and bullet drop? Say I am shooting at a target 500 yards away and my bullet will drop 10 inches, how do I calculate how many Mils or MOAs I need to hold over?
Answer: it depends. Load and conditions will dictate but it all comes down to shooting and gathering data. There are some calculators out there that will get you close based on load, barrel length, conditions, etc but nothing will replace getting out there and doing it.
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Old 06-22-2014, 02:25 PM   #11 (permalink)
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OP this might help. It's fun too.
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Old 06-22-2014, 02:56 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Is Mrad and Mil-dot the same thing or are they different? I can't really find a definitive answer to that.

Here is the scope I am thinking about getting Vortex PST 4-16x50 FFP EBR-1 MRAD Reticle

Last edited by dpenney; 06-22-2014 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 06-22-2014, 03:00 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Yes. Mil in mil-dot means milliradian, and mrad also means milliradian.
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Old 06-22-2014, 05:21 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Primary Arms just came out with their ACSS reticle scope in a 4-14x for .308
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Old 06-22-2014, 07:29 PM   #15 (permalink)
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My opinion...honestly whatever is easier for you to see and be able to use. All those extra lines and hash marks do no good at all if you can't use them. I prefer the dead simple mil dot. Mil dots with mil adjustments are dead simple to me once you get used to them. I've got a MRAD reticle and all those extra lines and shit just aggravate me.
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Old 06-23-2014, 05:02 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRedHorseman View Post
MOA/MOA is easier when you're used to thinking in inches and yards though. (not exactly, but close enough)
Thats the beauty of using a graduated reticle and matching turrets, you don't have to think in inches and yards, just in Mils or MOA. The scope will tell you how far you missed and how much to adjust to get on target. There is no need to convert from one measurement system to another. If you missed 0.4 mils, then adjust 4 clicks and shoot again. This is also why you want a scope with the reticle on the the first focal plane.

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My opinion...honestly whatever is easier for you to see and be able to use. All those extra lines and hash marks do no good at all if you can't use them. I prefer the dead simple mil dot. Mil dots with mil adjustments are dead simple to me once you get used to them. I've got a MRAD reticle and all those extra lines and shit just aggravate me.
All those extra lines and shit are just a refinement of the old mil dot reticle. They are not any harder to understand than a mil dot.

I would agree, get what ever is easiest for you, but it also depends on what you are going to be doing. If all you are going to be shooting is paper or steel with your buddies on a relaxing range trip, then a simple mil dot or MRAD reticle will be fine as you can take your time and adjust your turrets for every shot. If you are going to be doing sniper type matches where time is a factor, then a Horus type reticle will be better because you will want to use hold overs and not waste time adjusting the turrets. A Horus reticle would be great for hunting also, as you can more accurately use hold overs.

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Originally Posted by dpenney View Post
Is Mrad and Mil-dot the same thing or are they different? I can't really find a definitive answer to that.

Here is the scope I am thinking about getting Vortex PST 4-16x50 FFP EBR-1 MRAD Reticle
I have that Vortex, and I think they are great scopes. You get a hell of a lot of scope for the money. I got mine used and saved about $150 over a new one and got a set of Vortex rings with it.
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Old 06-23-2014, 10:18 AM   #17 (permalink)
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All those extra lines and shit are just a refinement of the old mil dot reticle. They are not any harder to understand than a mil dot.
Yes true all they are is a refinement. But it clutters it up too much for my liking.
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Old 06-23-2014, 10:44 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Old 06-23-2014, 05:52 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Thanks for all the info, I went ahead and ordered the Vortex PST 4-16x50 with a MRad reticle. The Nightforce scopes are nice, but I didn't think a $1800 scope was right for an AR based gun, I will save that for a bolt gun in the future.
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Old 06-23-2014, 06:41 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I run MLR reticles, but my shooting buddies prefer mildot style reticles; that's just a preference deal.

My target guns all have MIL reticles and turrets, which is consistent with the guys I shoot with for spotting purposes. My hunting rifles have MOA reticles and turrets as the guys I hunt with are more likely to spot me in inches or feet, and I can better visualize inches and feet than mils.
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