T/C Contender smoothbore .410 - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > Miscellaneous > Outdoor Sports and Recreation
Notices

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-11-2019, 04:23 PM   #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
6gun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Member # 95448
Location: Calhoun,Ga
Posts: 518
T/C Contender smoothbore .410

I was discussing with a friend today about options for a smoothbore .410 barrel for my Contender carbine and we arrived at the conclusion that making one would be easier than finding one(I've looked). Discussing options I thought I'd throw out there since you bunch of heathens are always figuring out how to do what shouldn't be done.

#1) Buy a 21" factory rifle barrel and ream it out to .410. But how do you ream 21"????

#2) Buy a used .410 single shot barrel and weld a T/C lug to it.

#3) Bite the bullet and hunt patiently for a factory smooth bore to come available and come up with the $5-600 they go for(OUCH)

Any ideals from the expert machinists here how to ream a barrel the whole way through fairly accurately? Anyone here have capability to do something like that?
__________________
'99 Ford Ranger 4.0/5R55E/BW1354E/5.13 gears/'06 D60 F/99 Sterling R/ 39X12.50 Kanati
6gun is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-11-2019, 06:29 PM   #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Member # 59610
Location: CNY Central New Yuck
Posts: 3,603
buy a 45 long colt, and shoot .410 slugs
__________________
Originally Posted by 45acp View Post
Titty bar with moms? Sure why not. Right after I masturbate in church.
jeeptj19992001 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Old 11-11-2019, 06:33 PM   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Member # 59610
Location: CNY Central New Yuck
Posts: 3,603
Thompson Center Shotgun | Thompson Center 12 Gauge Shotgun
https://matchgrademachine.com/thompson-center-shotgun/


455.00
__________________
Originally Posted by 45acp View Post
Titty bar with moms? Sure why not. Right after I masturbate in church.
jeeptj19992001 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2019, 07:45 PM   #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
kf4zht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Member # 80248
Location: Calhoun, GA
Posts: 1,287
#4) Buy a 410 AR upper and have 15 rounds of 410, forget that single shot nonesense.

Honestly I would do #2. Even if you found a pump gun barrel you could always use it for a sleeve in an adapter to get to TC dimensions.
__________________
Where there is a way, there's a will.
kf4zht is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-11-2019, 08:23 PM   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Member # 192237
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 11,666
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6gun View Post
Any ideals from the expert machinists here how to ream a barrel the whole way through fairly accurately? Anyone here have capability to do something like that?
expert? hah
I'd use a simple piloted d-bit reamer to finish it a couple thousandths under, then press a carbide ball bearing through it to burnish it smooth, it'll plastic foul like crazy if you just leave it as-reamed

ETA: much easier to weld a tc lug onto an existing 410 barrel (or possibly a piece of properly sized DOM. Barrels are soft steel)

Last edited by [486]; 11-11-2019 at 08:24 PM.
[486] is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-12-2019, 04:49 AM   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
6gun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Member # 95448
Location: Calhoun,Ga
Posts: 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeeptj19992001 View Post
buy a 45 long colt, and shoot .410 slugs
That would work fine for larger stuff but have you ever saw what a .410 slug does to a squirrel? Ain't much left to eat!
__________________
'99 Ford Ranger 4.0/5R55E/BW1354E/5.13 gears/'06 D60 F/99 Sterling R/ 39X12.50 Kanati
6gun is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-12-2019, 04:51 AM   #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
6gun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Member # 95448
Location: Calhoun,Ga
Posts: 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by kf4zht View Post
#4) Buy a 410 AR upper and have 15 rounds of 410, forget that single shot nonesense.

Honestly I would do #2. Even if you found a pump gun barrel you could always use it for a sleeve in an adapter to get to TC dimensions.
I'm on the list for one of the next shipments of .410 AR uppers. Single shot is just plain fun!
__________________
'99 Ford Ranger 4.0/5R55E/BW1354E/5.13 gears/'06 D60 F/99 Sterling R/ 39X12.50 Kanati
6gun is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-12-2019, 04:54 AM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
6gun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Member # 95448
Location: Calhoun,Ga
Posts: 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by [486] View Post
expert? hah
I'd use a simple piloted d-bit reamer to finish it a couple thousandths under, then press a carbide ball bearing through it to burnish it smooth, it'll plastic foul like crazy if you just leave it as-reamed

ETA: much easier to weld a tc lug onto an existing 410 barrel (or possibly a piece of properly sized DOM. Barrels are soft steel)
My friend who is a much more accomplished machinist than I (and owns the lathe) was worried about the length of the reamer/extensions etc causing too much wobble. He mentioned a pull thru reamer but was clueless where one that length could be found. The barrel will be polished thoroughly to avoid plastic fouling! It looks like building a barrel is in the lead for easiest to do! Plus I already have a spare barrel that could contribute to the cause!
__________________
'99 Ford Ranger 4.0/5R55E/BW1354E/5.13 gears/'06 D60 F/99 Sterling R/ 39X12.50 Kanati

Last edited by 6gun; 11-12-2019 at 04:55 AM. Reason: clarity!
6gun is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-12-2019, 09:10 AM   #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Member # 36733
Location: Was Bozeman now Cofederated tribes res
Posts: 10,425
Watch your head spacing if you DIY...also better use chrome moly as using softer steel can lead to pressure issues if the wall is too thin at the breech.
__________________
[I]Vegetarian is an old Native American word for bad hunter[/I]
DavidVanVorous is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-12-2019, 09:41 AM   #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Member # 57170
Location: Spokane
Posts: 2,127
Ugh..brain failing me, but I'd reach out to a co that specializes in shotgun barrels and ask them.

I cant recall the name. I sent a barrel off to be shortened, re-threaded, and the forcing cone opened up on a barrel and the cost was very reasonable.

They would probably have some good ideas at least.
__________________
Retired as fawk :smokin:
14 JKU "The Toad" work in progress
SEREvince is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-12-2019, 09:51 AM   #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Member # 123554
Location: Portland, TX
Posts: 768
Itís been a few years since I sold my TC stuff, but there used to be a couple of TC groups on Facebook where people sold barrels at reasonable prices. House of arms also ran specials from time to time. Personally, I had decent luck on eBay.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Aggie06 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-12-2019, 05:54 PM   #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Member # 192237
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 11,666
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidVanVorous View Post
Watch your head spacing if you DIY...also better use chrome moly as using softer steel can lead to pressure issues if the wall is too thin at the breech.
no
wrong
[486] is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-12-2019, 06:39 PM   #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
6gun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Member # 95448
Location: Calhoun,Ga
Posts: 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidVanVorous View Post
Watch your head spacing if you DIY...also better use chrome moly as using softer steel can lead to pressure issues if the wall is too thin at the breech.
While I will use proper steel for it, considering the amount of fully functional poop-pipe 12G I've seen I'm not extremely concerned.

Sent from my LG-H700 using Tapatalk
__________________
'99 Ford Ranger 4.0/5R55E/BW1354E/5.13 gears/'06 D60 F/99 Sterling R/ 39X12.50 Kanati
6gun is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-13-2019, 08:58 AM   #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Member # 183804
Location: Buckeye
Posts: 710
Send your rifle barrel to JES reboring and have him do it for 200ish bucks.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Stories from in between my ears.
micky_blue is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-13-2019, 09:24 AM   #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Member # 67823
Location: Republic of Vancouver Island
Posts: 5,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEREvince View Post
Ugh..brain failing me, but I'd reach out to a co that specializes in shotgun barrels and ask them.

I cant recall the name. I sent a barrel off to be shortened, re-threaded, and the forcing cone opened up on a barrel and the cost was very reasonable.

They would probably have some good ideas at least.
Dlask might be able to do it. Dunno how the border cross9ng part would go though.
__________________
Big diesel Ford, a stable of white toyotas from '84-08, and a bw200. They all need work.
squamch is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-13-2019, 11:08 AM   #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Member # 36733
Location: Was Bozeman now Cofederated tribes res
Posts: 10,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by [486] View Post
no
wrong
Son I build both ML and shoot wildcat TC stuff and have since the contender 1st came out. A .410 like other shotty cases are all headspaced at the breech.


In fact all TC barrels using rimmed cases are headspaced at the breech. The only shoulder reference head spaced spaced barrels are rimless cases hence a need for the cartridges to be fire formed for decent accuracy. Talk to the folks at TC about it...
__________________
[I]Vegetarian is an old Native American word for bad hunter[/I]
DavidVanVorous is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-13-2019, 11:19 AM   #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Member # 36733
Location: Was Bozeman now Cofederated tribes res
Posts: 10,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6gun View Post
While I will use proper steel for it, considering the amount of fully functional poop-pipe 12G I've seen I'm not extremely concerned.

Sent from my LG-H700 using Tapatalk
Meh, the ability to handle the breech pressure is not only a function of the material but also the wall thickness...basic material science and Mech Engineering. Pipe like you are talking about will have about .12" wall and "adequate" for a short barrel zip gun.

Given the width of a TC breech the wall thickness on a .45/.410 is thinner hence why TC makes most of their barrels of chrome moly so as to avoid the warranty hassles.
__________________
[I]Vegetarian is an old Native American word for bad hunter[/I]
DavidVanVorous is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-13-2019, 12:00 PM   #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Member # 143737
Location: NH
Posts: 2,341
Few years ago I could have probably gotten what you wanted here in town, but they had to fuck with the T/C plant here.
__________________
POS Ranger on narrow 3/4 tons with a 357w noise maker
posford is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-13-2019, 02:34 PM   #19 (permalink)
Custom User Title
 
Provience's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Member # 138976
Location: Thurston County, WA
Posts: 28,930
https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...mers/index.htm

pull through reamers available at brownells

pull through would take chatter and shit out of the equation and be the better option as opposed to a boring bar
__________________
up is difficult, down is dangerous

freedom of choice is what you have, freedom from choice is what you want

keep your head down, go to sleep to the rhythm of the war drums
Provience is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-13-2019, 06:38 PM   #20 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Member # 192237
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 11,666
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidVanVorous View Post
Son I build both ML and shoot wildcat TC stuff and have since the contender 1st came out. A .410 like other shotty cases are all headspaced at the breech.


In fact all TC barrels using rimmed cases are headspaced at the breech. The only shoulder reference head spaced spaced barrels are rimless cases hence a need for the cartridges to be fire formed for decent accuracy. Talk to the folks at TC about it...
I wasn't talking about the headspace bit, though now that you mention it headspace doesn't fucking matter it's a .410 shotgun shell, you could have 1/4" of it exposed and it'd be fine

I was taking about your comment on needing hardenable steel. Many barrel makers will even use leaded free-machining steel

Last edited by [486]; 11-13-2019 at 06:39 PM.
[486] is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-14-2019, 10:32 AM   #21 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Member # 36733
Location: Was Bozeman now Cofederated tribes res
Posts: 10,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by [486] View Post
I wasn't talking about the headspace bit, though now that you mention it headspace doesn't fucking matter it's a .410 shotgun shell, you could have 1/4" of it exposed and it'd be fine

I was taking about your comment on needing hardenable steel. Many barrel makers will even use leaded free-machining steel
I can think of at least 6 books and authors of same that say the 1st remark is BS and an unsafe situation. 1 book (Hatchers Notebook pg 240) also has a real nice pic of a shotty high wall case thats all nicely expanded at the base due to bad head spacing (.1" btw). A few other pics describe the effects of lousy head space for rimless with increasing changes including mid case seperation and barrel deflagration in the case of shotguns.

For ref on the significance of Head spacing and the ramifications of screwing it up in a build:

Modern Gunsmithing - Clyde Baker ref; chpt 16 pgs 243-245
Professional Gunsmithing- Walter J. Howe ref; chpt 5 pgs 84-86
Hatchers Notebook - J.S. Hatcher US Army ret. ref; chpt 10 pgs 231-252
Ordinance went up front - R.F. Dunlap ref; chpt 44 pgs 370-374
Gunsmithing - R.F. Dunlap ref; chpt 14 pgs 208-212
Shotguns - Elmer Keith ref; chpt 6 pg 113

As to leaded steel, like I said previously steel grade and wall thickness come into play when building a barrel. One can make a firearm of plastic on a 3d printer but how long it stays in one piece is debatable, but theres folks with uTube DIY videos out there...

Back in the early 70s I even made a tennis ball cannon out of nothing more than 2 steel bud cans and electrical tape to hold it together that shot tennis balls using about 100 gr of 2f Goex.
Was it functional? yep
Did it fall apart at the tape seam every shot? yep

Point is that one can build out of most anything, the Q always comes down to one of whether or not its durable and lasts or just a toy...
__________________
[I]Vegetarian is an old Native American word for bad hunter[/I]

Last edited by DavidVanVorous; 11-14-2019 at 10:36 AM.
DavidVanVorous is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-14-2019, 05:50 PM   #22 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Member # 192237
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 11,666
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidVanVorous View Post
I can think of at least 6 books and authors of same that say the 1st remark is BS and an unsafe situation. 1 book (Hatchers Notebook pg 240) also has a real nice pic of a shotty high wall case thats all nicely expanded at the base due to bad head spacing (.1" btw).
note how a .410 hull still uses a #209 primer
the case head in a .410 is solid plastic for a good 1/4" because of this
where with cheap 12ga hulls they have a ring hollowed out in the case head down below the level of the primer's flash hole, sort of like the pictures you see of old 'balloon head' style metallic cases
[486] is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-18-2019, 11:02 AM   #23 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Member # 36733
Location: Was Bozeman now Cofederated tribes res
Posts: 10,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by [486] View Post
note how a .410 hull still uses a #209 primer
the case head in a .410 is solid plastic for a good 1/4" because of this
where with cheap 12ga hulls they have a ring hollowed out in the case head down below the level of the primer's flash hole, sort of like the pictures you see of old 'balloon head' style metallic cases
Meh, 209 primer is nothing more than a means to carry a SR primer in a larger hole, not a significant part of the structural integrity of the case. Same part used by other gage shotty cartridges and in some ML inline designs.

As to the plastic, again larger gages are made the same and have been since the cartridge makers went plastic. Only exception are the old school paper cases one runs into occasionally...if at all nowadays.

Doesnt alter the fact that what you are proposing is at best Booty fab and dangerous.

Ive run into a similar attitude when I took Hunter Safety class eons ago in the early 60s during the practical. Kid was shooting an older .410 H&R top break for the shotty part of the test with his dad feeding the piece. Turned out his dad gave him a 3" mag which the piece took exception to...as did the instructor of the course when he found out.

Kid shot, the case mushrooms inboard towards the muzzle and prevented extraction. Dad starts to the car to get a rod to bounce the case out. Apparently he was used to the problem cuz he had a rod and a ball pein when he started back.

Instructor caught wind of what was wrong, words between instructor and parental unit started getting louder and........the kid and the dad were bounced off the range with the instructor shouting the kid flunked cuz the dad was an idiot...
__________________
[I]Vegetarian is an old Native American word for bad hunter[/I]

Last edited by DavidVanVorous; 11-18-2019 at 11:22 AM.
DavidVanVorous is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-18-2019, 06:38 PM   #24 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Member # 192237
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 11,666
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidVanVorous View Post
Meh, 209 primer is nothing more than a means to carry a SR primer in a larger hole, not a significant part of the structural integrity of the case. Same part used by other gage shotty cartridges and in some ML inline designs.

As to the plastic, again larger gages are made the same and have been since the cartridge makers went plastic. Only exception are the old school paper cases one runs into occasionally...if at all nowadays.
larger diameter case means they have room to increase case volume by removing plastic between the case wall and primer
primer being a large portion of the diameter of the case means no room to cut out material there, thus the case head being basically solid
[486] is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

** A VERIFICATION EMAIL IS SENT TO THIS ADDRESS TO COMPLETE REGISTRATION!! **

Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.