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Old 09-26-2012, 07:50 AM   #126 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by UGET IT View Post
"If" Monthly RTF Updates were availible or posted for Pirate, FB and whatever forums like Craig said it would go along way towards answering these very questions..........I have been saying this for years, shoot even when I was a Director on RTF.

Kevin
I know Tim Green bought this up at one of the meeting. Im not sure if it is in the works. Maybe a board member can chime in.
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:52 AM   #127 (permalink)
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Ok guys, I have a question...

According to this map
Board of Supervisors District Map

The Rubicon is in District 4.
District 4 is Ron Briggs district.

Why is Sweeney calling the shots in someone else's district? Am I missing something here?
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:03 AM   #128 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UGET IT View Post
"If" Monthly RTF Updates were availible or posted for Pirate, FB and whatever forums like Craig said it would go along way towards answering these very questions..........I have been saying this for years, shoot even when I was a Director on RTF.

Kevin

You hit the nail on the head!

I think that is the missing key here. We (the general public) have no idea if or what RTF is doing. Then when asked about something they are very defensive.

I know I cant read minds and would hope that something is being done but without communication and simple answers.....I can only assume that nothing is being done, and not just on this topic but on everything they do.
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:54 AM   #129 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAR View Post
Ok guys, I have a question...

According to this map
Board of Supervisors District Map

The Rubicon is in District 4.
District 4 is Ron Briggs district.

Why is Sweeney calling the shots in someone else's district? Am I missing something here?
El Dorado County has a "ward" system, where supervisors have an area that they are elected from, but they vote "at large", meaning though they are elected from a specific area, their influence is the entire county. The BOS placed Sweeney in the committee head position several years ago by mutual agreement and Sweeney accepted it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAR View Post
You hit the nail on the head!

I think that is the missing key here. We (the general public) have no idea if or what RTF is doing. Then when asked about something they are very defensive.
We've heard this discussion and are working on getting the minutes posted on the website with a quarterly trail update. It's a good idea, buat as with all ideas requires work and volunteer time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAR View Post
I know I cant read minds and would hope that something is being done but without communication and simple answers.....I can only assume that nothing is being done, and not just on this topic but on everything they do.

This is a specious argument...because I've never seen you post on Pirate about your job or your house, should I therefore assume that you are unemployed and homeless?


Lots of strong words and opinions in this thread. I like Scott's suggestion: join the board and influence decisions.
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:06 AM   #130 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtuleas View Post
Serious question: Is soup next on the chopping block? What about postpile? That's a tough one for people with less than 35"s. Where does this end?
Not sure where everyone has been the last 2 years, its 378 pages.

Final Impact Study


Modified Alternative 3
This alternative was developed to address concerns (significant issues 1, 2, 5, 6,and 7) about visual degradation from construction of the Buck Island Lake Outlet bridge, inadequate human waste disposal methods, impacts to aquatic resources at Little Sluice, impacts from wet season use by: installing an elevated rock ford at the crossing at Buck Island Lake Outlet, constructing five additional toilets, moving the toilet at Wentworth Springs Campground out of the Gerle Creek floodplain, reducing the easement at Little Sluice to 75 feet and including a saturated soil management strategy for wet season use.
Modified Alternative 3 is the same as Alternative 1 except for: The motor vehicle use area at Soup Bowl would not be designated or defined on the ground.
The easement width of Little Sluice would be reduced to 75 feet from 200 feet.

The crossing at Buck Island Lake Outlet would be an elevated rock ford as
described in El Dorado County’s Rubicon Trail Saturated Soil Water Quality
Protection Plan (SSWQPP) Technical Report and as displayed in the project
plans for implementation and a bridge would not be built. The downstream
crossing would be closed and rehabilitated.
Additional toilets would be installed along the Rubicon Trail in areas where
concentrated use is occurring (see Modified Alternative 3 maps). Some toilets
would be designed with a smaller vault to provide flexibility in placement. The
toilets would be installed close enough to the Rubicon Trail to accommodate
maintenance by Rubicon Trails Foundation using a modified Unimog pump truck. The toilet at Wentworth Springs would be moved and installed outside of the Gerle Creek floodplain.
A saturated soil management strategy would be used to address motor vehicle use during the wet season.
The County will perform annual monitoring on the Rubicon Trail during
spring peak runoff conditions to assess the effectiveness of the Saturated
Soil Water Quality Protection Plan (SSWQPP} in meeting its goals of
minimizing Trail erosion, capturing vehicle-caused sediment, and conveying
runoff. The annual monitoring shall be documented and the results will be
analyzed and assessed by the County. An annual monitoring report
including the documentation and assessment shall be provided to the
California Regional Water Quality Control Board for the Central Valley
Region and to the ENF. If the annual monitoring demonstrates that the
erosion control features applied pursuant to the SSWQPP are reasonably
effective at achieving the goals of the SSWQPP, then the County will
continue its maintenance and monitoring. If the annual monitoring
repeatedly demonstrate that the erosion control features applied pursuant
to the SSWQPP are not reasonably effective at achieving the goals of the
SSWQPP, then the County will close the Rubicon Trail to public motorized
vehicle use during spring peak runoff conditions. If periodic closure during
spring peak runoff conditions is ineffective at achieving the goals of the
SSWQPP, the County will impose a seasonal closure of the Rubicon Trail
from March 1 to May 15. The County may consider modifications to its
SSWQPP, and may submit the modified SSWQPP to the California Central
Valley Regional Water Quality Control Board and the ENF. If the
modifications provide an indication that the goals of the SSWQPP will be
met, then the closure can be lifted while annual monitoring continues.


Post pile was reduced a lot too. You have 1 route, with 1 bypass. The county has yet to block off the areas. Link to map
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:12 AM   #131 (permalink)
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This is a specious argument...because I've never seen you post on Pirate about your job or your house, should I therefore assume that you are unemployed and homeless?
I actually have posted about both, with pictures.

To add to that, it is non of anyones concern. IF I was the manager of your apartment, you would want to know if I was going to fix things that are broken and tend to items that are failing.

RTF should be more involved with letting the people know what is going on, rather its more of a secret cult and we are just supposed to guess that you are doing something..

You don't want me on the board, I am way to honest and outspoken. I highly doubt I would get voted on anyway.

I think RTF is missing the point here...

WE look at you guys for guidance, you are our representatives, like it or not. When we here nothing but "go to meetings" and see the trail being paved and zero emotion or action from RTF, especially on large issues such as the sluice, some of us get nervous and defensive. I myself, get pissed off and tell you all about it. The fix is easy and the ball is in your court.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:06 AM   #132 (permalink)
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You stop it too!!! - this is not about 32's or 42's. It's about managing the trail.

Education (how to treat the trail), Engineering (keeping it sound and in good shape) and Enforcement (peer and LEO). PERIOD.
Bebe...Call me the divider but I think this is a discussion we need to have. I think it really is about 33's or 42's or both. Here's why.

You cannot create an engineered plan for Little Sluice without setting a some sort of end tire size standard for any work that gets done. When the plan is to add rock here and there, its a change and that change at sluice is from 42's to something else. That is a planned decision. That is what is stirring all this up. No one complaining here would be complaining if the end result was to keep a 42" standard at sluice.

Yeah...yeah...the reason for the plan at sluice has nothing to do with changing the standard...they are about...enviro/water/bla bla bla. But let's face it you could solve all those issues and still maintain a 42's standard. But that's not what's happening. So, in the end, what is causing anger and frustration is the choice in the standard...it is about taking away the 42's. This is the center of the controversy...I think we need to focus on it and come to a more balanced outcome.

When people say the standard should be 33's for the entire trail they are saying effectively...33's should be the standard to the exclusion of 42's. Sure you can say the 42's still have access, but to them its what's the point...you might as well pave it.

Does RTF have a publically stated position for a standard. Do they think 42's should have sections that challenge them? I doubt they would take such a controversal position publically, but as hot as this issue is it might be wise to discuss this and even make a public position on it. Fact is, a big chunk of the RTF money comes from a club that might be interested in the answer to that question.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:25 AM   #133 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sierra_hillbilly View Post
I loved the little sluice back in the day before some idiots pulled a bunch of rocks into it. THOSE ROCK WERE NOT PUT THERE NATRUALLY! What a concept. I feel they should put it back to the way it was before people decided to change nature. The little sluice tree use to be a huge sign tree, which everyone thought was cool.
Sierra Hillbilly....has spoken up. I would like all the SLUICE needs the big rocks, and why isn't RTF representing "us" to read this post VERY CAREFULLY.

Notice something? This user, doesn't agree with you. So as Randy has stated over and over....NOBODY is going to be 100% happy with the Little Sluice. The save little sluice group has one agenda, this user has another agenda.

Stop being so selfish in thinking "you" are right or should win. There are many users, with many differing opinions on the Little Sluice.

It is impossible...for RTF to be the voice of every single individual voice. RTF isn't around for one voice....or a handful....it's there for many voices, of many different opinions and when the board votes on an issue, it's to listen to ALL of those voices and make a decision that best represents the trail and as many of those voices (PLURAL) as possible. Will there be people unhappy on either side on individual issues? YES. Is that normal or expected...YES.

Ever hear of the 80/20 rule? In most things....There will be 10% on ONE side of the argument (Save the sluice), there will be 10% on the other side (Sierra Hillbilly) and there will be 80% in the middle.

RTF can not make every single user happy....it's just not possible. I joined the board for the TRAIL and to support as MANY users as possible.

Even though yesterday I was back-stabbed by someone I thought was a friend after trying to make some deals and compromises to support AS MANY PEOPLE as I could....I got F*****.....right in the back, dry. But I will continue....for the trail....and I won't be deterred by individuals who don't do, as they say. I refuse to let them alter my commitment.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:54 AM   #134 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bebe View Post
What did you "love" about it? Serious question.
What did I LOVE about it?? I loved that I could actually drive my 1947 Willys through the little sluice.....

AND I did....for nearly 15 years, as it was done for 35 years BEFORE THAT....but then some A^&&& didn't find it challenging enough....and F***** over MY Rubicon experience.

But you know what? I fought FOR the current Little Sluice condition, despite being F**** over.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:02 AM   #135 (permalink)
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How many members have nothing but USER interest in mind?
Several, including myself. I don't belong to any club, organization. I just use the trail...period.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:05 AM   #136 (permalink)
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Even though yesterday I was back-stabbed by someone I thought was a friend after trying to make some deals and compromises to support AS MANY PEOPLE as I could....I got F*****.....right in the back, dry. But I will continue....for the trail....and I won't be deterred by individuals who don't do, as they say. I refuse to let them alter my commitment.
Care to ellaborate on this? What was the "some deal/compromises?" Who is your "friend?" Making a statement like this just makes it look like you as a board member has stuff to hide.

Why not just say "I presented ____ ideas to _____ and this was the result."

It's possible a majority of the people would agree with you, but since we don't know what was discussed we have no idea just you and a "friend" know.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:07 AM   #137 (permalink)
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Lots of strong words and opinions in this thread. I like Scott's suggestion: join the board and influence decisions.
I asked Ryan yesterday....he declined. I personally want the board to be diverse and opinionated....but PROFESSIONAL. You won't win every battle....but your voice will be heard every matter.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:11 AM   #138 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTPRETTY View Post
Bebe...Call me the divider but I think this is a discussion we need to have. I think it really is about 33's or 42's or both. Here's why.

You cannot create an engineered plan for Little Sluice without setting a some sort of end tire size standard for any work that gets done. When the plan is to add rock here and there, its a change and that change at sluice is from 42's to something else. That is a planned decision. That is what is stirring all this up. No one complaining here would be complaining if the end result was to keep a 42" standard at sluice.

Yeah...yeah...the reason for the plan at sluice has nothing to do with changing the standard...they are about...enviro/water/bla bla bla. But let's face it you could solve all those issues and still maintain a 42's standard. But that's not what's happening. So, in the end, what is causing anger and frustration is the choice in the standard...it is about taking away the 42's. This is the center of the controversy...I think we need to focus on it and come to a more balanced outcome.

When people say the standard should be 33's for the entire trail they are saying effectively...33's should be the standard to the exclusion of 42's. Sure you can say the 42's still have access, but to them its what's the point...you might as well pave it.

Does RTF have a publically stated position for a standard. Do they think 42's should have sections that challenge them? I doubt they would take such a controversal position publically, but as hot as this issue is it might be wise to discuss this and even make a public position on it. Fact is, a big chunk of the RTF money comes from a club that might be interested in the answer to that question.
Alright, lets have the discussion, but like you I try to be centrist. I try to look at both sides, peel the onion to get to the core of the issue. The core issue is what needs to be discussed.

I'm going to ascertain from your statements that you have arrived at Tire size and management to that size as being the issue.

The Sluice has become a target
- not just by the anti's, as I have been to enough meetings to see that many other wheelers and property owners think the "Party" is the problem. "Attractive Nuisance" is what they call it.

The three E's can resolve many if not all of those issues
. But in their mind it's the behavior of those with 42's that are the problem. We all know that guys in 32's can get just as drunk and obnoxious as guys in 42's, but whatever....they are not listening.They don't want people camping, partying and hanging out at Sluice, Spider Lake, Winter Camp etc. Where do they want them to go? Buck? Rubicon Springs perhaps? Maybe. But why, is the question. More on that later.

In order to get a handle on the "Party"
, they have parked LEO's for the last 2 summers, at the Sluice, and now the party has died down, but it moved to Buck as far as I can tell. But the party at the Sluice is far less prevalent.

The hardening of the soils in the Sluice is relevant
. And we did that in 2009. It was not maintained in subsequent years, which is a shame, but it is what it is. No interest or focus from RTF I guess.

So there you have the two main issues solved, party and soils
. There is nothing left to do really but maintain it as is, which is why the Sluice should stay as is. And there should be regular (annual) clean-ups and rock chucking by FOTR as approved by RTF and DOT. Maintenance.

However, there is a Politician
who has a bee in his girly bonnet about blowing up the rocks. For who? Just who is that bee in his bonnet?

The engineered plan of 2 lines through the box is a compromise
, and has been studied and designed by Lil' Rich Klein, and has been presented to DOT as a possibility. It IS possible to leave a line for through traffic with a challenge, and to keep the 42's entertained, however contrived it may seem, it won't include the use of gunite.

Is it the perfect answer? No. Will everyone go away happy. No. But if the option is to completely blow it to smithereens, or do something a little more contrived...I'll go with the two lines through the box.

Compromise is the drink that everyone needs to get a straw and suck it up.
The anti's don't ever compromise, it's all or nothing for them. That is their disease.

Do I expect anyone to agree with me?
- hell no. But at least it's not one faction walking away with it all, and our asses are pretty much covered on all fronts.

For the record compromise is very difficult for me
, but in the case of the Little Sluice, we are being hammered by the enviro's, leetle Jeeps, Politicians, landowners etc. to change it, it seems warranted in this case.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:11 AM   #139 (permalink)
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What i love about it, is I started this rock crawling in 09 I got a rig that was stock could not make it through the box and over the years I did up grades to run it, now i just made 1 ton axels at the cost of over 10g so i can put on my 40in tires and run it. So now what
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:13 AM   #140 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R290 View Post
Not sure where everyone has been the last 2 years, its 378 pages.

Final Impact Study


Modified Alternative 3
This alternative was developed to address concerns (significant issues 1, 2, 5, 6,and 7) about visual degradation from construction of the Buck Island Lake Outlet bridge, inadequate human waste disposal methods, impacts to aquatic resources at Little Sluice, impacts from wet season use by: installing an elevated rock ford at the crossing at Buck Island Lake Outlet, constructing five additional toilets, moving the toilet at Wentworth Springs Campground out of the Gerle Creek floodplain, reducing the easement at Little Sluice to 75 feet and including a saturated soil management strategy for wet season use.
Modified Alternative 3 is the same as Alternative 1 except for: The motor vehicle use area at Soup Bowl would not be designated or defined on the ground.
The easement width of Little Sluice would be reduced to 75 feet from 200 feet.

The crossing at Buck Island Lake Outlet would be an elevated rock ford as
described in El Dorado County’s Rubicon Trail Saturated Soil Water Quality
Protection Plan (SSWQPP) Technical Report and as displayed in the project
plans for implementation and a bridge would not be built. The downstream
crossing would be closed and rehabilitated.
Additional toilets would be installed along the Rubicon Trail in areas where
concentrated use is occurring (see Modified Alternative 3 maps). Some toilets
would be designed with a smaller vault to provide flexibility in placement. The
toilets would be installed close enough to the Rubicon Trail to accommodate
maintenance by Rubicon Trails Foundation using a modified Unimog pump truck. The toilet at Wentworth Springs would be moved and installed outside of the Gerle Creek floodplain.
A saturated soil management strategy would be used to address motor vehicle use during the wet season.
The County will perform annual monitoring on the Rubicon Trail during
spring peak runoff conditions to assess the effectiveness of the Saturated
Soil Water Quality Protection Plan (SSWQPP} in meeting its goals of
minimizing Trail erosion, capturing vehicle-caused sediment, and conveying
runoff. The annual monitoring shall be documented and the results will be
analyzed and assessed by the County. An annual monitoring report
including the documentation and assessment shall be provided to the
California Regional Water Quality Control Board for the Central Valley
Region and to the ENF. If the annual monitoring demonstrates that the
erosion control features applied pursuant to the SSWQPP are reasonably
effective at achieving the goals of the SSWQPP, then the County will
continue its maintenance and monitoring. If the annual monitoring
repeatedly demonstrate that the erosion control features applied pursuant
to the SSWQPP are not reasonably effective at achieving the goals of the
SSWQPP, then the County will close the Rubicon Trail to public motorized
vehicle use during spring peak runoff conditions. If periodic closure during
spring peak runoff conditions is ineffective at achieving the goals of the
SSWQPP, the County will impose a seasonal closure of the Rubicon Trail
from March 1 to May 15. The County may consider modifications to its
SSWQPP, and may submit the modified SSWQPP to the California Central
Valley Regional Water Quality Control Board and the ENF. If the
modifications provide an indication that the goals of the SSWQPP will be
met, then the closure can be lifted while annual monitoring continues.


Post pile was reduced a lot too. You have 1 route, with 1 bypass. The county has yet to block off the areas. Link to map


Thanks for posting the actual document Craig but call me stupid but what exactly does it mean regarding soupbowl and post pile Sorry I don't get it Plain English please. Thanks
Glenn
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:39 AM   #141 (permalink)
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we need RTF... but restructured, i feel there is to many people on the board that has a conflict of interest for us wheelers! and our true interests
All of them are 'wheelers, too, but if you want something different, they have elections each January, and vote and elect according to their bylaws. Run or find some other person(s) to run, and create change and/or diversity from within. If that doesn't suit you, I suppose you could create ANOTHER group, or organize your friends and take over an existing group from within... or just attend a meeting or two as an independent to express your opinions. Any of these things would be more effective than *JUST* posting *ONLY* online.

Quote:
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Why is it that you and the cool kids are trying to discredit anyone that does not agree with the way RTF is doing things?
Ryan, I present the facts as I understand them, and my views on them... I'm not trying to discredit anyone, but I'm generally willing to dialogue with anyone. I try to keep principles before personalities... this stuff doesn't have to be abusively personal. BTW, this has to be the first time I've been identified as one of 'the cool kids.' Whoo-hoo!

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...I have no personal interest in the "box", but as a community, we NEED it. I am sticking up for OUR community.
Well, we THINK we're doing the same thing. Truth probably is that we're both representing the views of people we know, and trying to find balance as best we can... I guess we just know a different cross-section of trail users.

We're both calling it how we see it... it just must look different from there.

Randii (I'll wave the pom-poms, can I skip the skirt)

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Old 09-26-2012, 01:22 PM   #142 (permalink)
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Fwiw... I've never run the box... Have no desire to run the box (as it is) and DO NOT want to change the box!!!
There's a bypass!! It works extremely well!! I don't get why all the emphasis of changing a section of the trail for the needs of the masses (those w/ lesser built rigs)?!
This is typical lib thinking in play here!!
"well... I can't do it, so let's change it so EVERYONE can do it! That's FAIR"

Leave it the f*** alone!! Theres NO REASON to change it unless its a LONG TERM NEGATIVE IMPACT to the trail!!
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:24 PM   #143 (permalink)
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I actually have posted about both, with pictures.

To add to that, it is non of anyones concern. IF I was the manager of your apartment, you would want to know if I was going to fix things that are broken and tend to items that are failing.
Argumentative and non-productive, I believe you understood the point.


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RTF should be more involved with letting the people know what is going on, rather its more of a secret cult and we are just supposed to guess that you are doing something.
I didn't miss this in your last post, I agreed. We aren't perfect and this is a way in which we could improve.

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You don't want me on the board, I am way to honest and outspoken...
This is EXACTLY why we DO need you on the board.


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WE look at you guys for guidance, you are our representatives, like it or not. When we here nothing but "go to meetings" and see the trail being paved and zero emotion or action from RTF, especially on large issues such as the sluice, some of us get nervous and defensive. I myself, get pissed off and tell you all about it. The fix is easy and the ball is in your court.
Fair enough. First of all, you didn't "hear nothing"...we worked our butts off when the decision was made in 2009 to get the word out, get people to the meeting, and limit mitigation in LS. We have all known since then that the BOS gave specific direction to DOT to reduce the rock size in Little Sluice. As Bebe pointed out, this was because of a perceived "attractive nuisance" factor there, and that was the specific reason given by the BOS.

Since then, RTF has been making comments in meetings to try to reduce the impact of this ordered action. Infill by County crews prior to reducing the rock size is the best compromise we could come to. It's going to cost money the County doesn't want to spend and reduces the impact of the BOS' order, so they don't like it as much. It isn't a zero impact, no action alternative, so you don't like it at all. We hope it will limit the amount of rocks that need to be reduced and benefit the most trail users while keeping year around access to the trail.

We represent all trail users, no matter what color your shoes are. We worked hard on this compromise (consistently and professionally over several years time, in public, no "back room deals", as was inferred), sounds like at some point we should have press released it.

Bear, your "callout" challenge to RTF makes a ridiculous demand. RTF should:

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...Step up or Step aside. I am calling all of you out. I challenge you. Make any alterations of the sluice...STOP...
The gist of this is that you personally should get your way or RTF should "step aside".

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. And it shouldn't.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:28 PM   #144 (permalink)
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"well... I can't do it, so let's change it so EVERYONE can do it! That's FAIR"

Leave it the f*** alone!! Theres NO REASON to change it unless its a LONG TERM NEGATIVE IMPACT to the trail!!
The Board of Supervisors, who has govenring power over the trail, sees LS as an attractive nuisance...THAT is the reason rock size is being reduced. Not defending them or attacking you, just want the record to be correct.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:34 PM   #145 (permalink)
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Bebe, good post. Lots of food for thought there.

RTF doesn't "approve" anything on the trail, at this point only the county has that authority.

Two lines would be cool and really advanced thinking (friggin' awesome), but it doesn't acheive the County's objective, as you pointed out. Their objective is to teduce the attractive nuisance and has little to do with anything else.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:43 PM   #146 (permalink)
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To Those who are planning to Occupy the Sluice....

Please go into this with a full understanding of the consequences. There could be high fines, tickets, etc. They may even figure out a way to have you arrested, your vehicles impounded etc. They may even try to shut down the trail for vehicles with an encroachment type permit - who knows.

I'm going to watch, and then, if needed, start throwing rock to help manage the first phase of the operation. We may be able to stop the cracking if the rock dumps works. For now, that's my plan for me. I have heard so many conflicting stories, I can't really say what is actually happening out there or when for that matter.

I get calls from everywhere, and all I know, the original plan, to crack and fill, is still in play. The other plan of just filling is what we are trying to negotiate for. Not sure if we will pull it off. I'll keep you posted when I hear something.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:44 PM   #147 (permalink)
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Bebe, good post. Lots of food for thought there.

RTF doesn't "approve" anything on the trail, at this point only the county has that authority.
Not what I was told on Monday. But thanks.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:52 PM   #148 (permalink)
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Care to ellaborate on this? What was the "some deal/compromises?"
We have worked it out.

We're working on getting the users in on moving the rocks after the drop moved around. Where the copter drops them, and where they are required probably won't be the same.

Secondly, we're working on getting a representative for the "users"(ie: those that want the box hard) to work with the DOT.
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Old 09-26-2012, 02:25 PM   #149 (permalink)
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Little Sluice

So set me straight from post above. It seems that we ( RTF ? ) will help move the rocks to fill in the box/ spots, so not only are we giving them free labor but we are helping them to pave/modify the box ? So how is that being out voices. Hope I missed read above post
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Old 09-26-2012, 02:26 PM   #150 (permalink)
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I'm really hoping someone at the County gets back to us soon.......HINT
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